Goldmund V.S. Pioneer !!??
Jan 27, 2008 at 6:20 PM Post #122 of 164

morphsci

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Quote:

Originally Posted by infinitesymphony /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Yes, because some guy who claims to have heard it is higher on the list than people who are able to spot the exact components used in the player. It is the Pioneer DV-585 with a few modifications--there's no question, and Goldmund has all but admitted it. A toroid and some minor transport upgrades won't turn lead into gold.


No it cannot just be anyone, it has to be someone who's opinoin I trust (which narrows it down to only two people who have posted in this thread). Many components use the exact same parts, since there may only be few oem's for those parts. Granted, that this does seem like an extreme case, but since no one here claims to have directly compared the two players, any conclusion that they sound the same is merely an assumption. It may be a good assumption, but it may not. All I am asking is that people who purport to be interested in measurements and specifications make scientific conclusions not assumptions. O.K. I'm done here, continue the litany of supposition.
 
Jan 27, 2008 at 10:02 PM Post #123 of 164

arnaud

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You're not getting the point here (although you've been reading head-fi for a few years now...). Any one with some sense of value (and most people belonging to head-fi are budget conscious indeed) should be shocked by seeing the work that's been done by Goldmund on that player given the price tag.

And in the end, if this thing really sounds like 12kUSD in high-end audio world, then that'd be the cherry on the cake. Because it would imply two things:
  1. What separates $200 from $12k sound wise is the range of subtle differences one gets from recabling and sticking 20 pounds of lead on the chassis of its player.
  2. We can dismiss all the work done by other high-end companies, those who actually do R&D (circuit design, audio components selection), not mere re-packaking with mostly DYI grade improvements.

arnaud.

Quote:

Originally Posted by morphsci /img/forum/go_quote.gif
No it cannot just be anyone, it has to be someone who's opinoin I trust (which narrows it down to only two people who have posted in this thread). Many components use the exact same parts, since there may only be few oem's for those parts. Granted, that this does seem like an extreme case, but since no one here claims to have directly compared the two players, any conclusion that they sound the same is merely an assumption. It may be a good assumption, but it may not. All I am asking is that people who purport to be interested in measurements and specifications make scientific conclusions not assumptions. O.K. I'm done here, continue the litany of supposition.


 
Jan 28, 2008 at 4:34 AM Post #124 of 164

morphsci

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Quote:

Originally Posted by arnaud /img/forum/go_quote.gif
You're not getting the point here (although you've been reading head-fi for a few years now...). Any one with some sense of value (and most people belonging to head-fi are budget conscious indeed) should be shocked by seeing the work that's been done by Goldmund on that player given the price tag.

And in the end, if this thing really sounds like 12kUSD in high-end audio world, then that'd be the cherry on the cake. Because it would imply two things:
  1. What separates $200 from $12k sound wise is the range of subtle differences one gets from recabling and sticking 20 pounds of lead on the chassis of its player.
  2. We can dismiss all the work done by other high-end companies, those who actually do R&D (circuit design, audio components selection), not mere re-packaking with mostly DYI grade improvements.

arnaud.




O.K. I lied.

I get it fine. There is a growing tendency on Head-Fi for destructive and useless criticism of products by those who really have no relevant opinion. Please answer my question, who on this thread has heard the Goldmund and Pioneer? I haven't, so my point is I cannot make a reasoned, scientific comment on it as an AUDIO component. Audio components need to be heard. Measurements, specifications and parts only tell part of the story. This goes all the way back to the Grado RA-1 revelation and more recently to the Rudistor witch-hunt and now the Goldmund/Pioneer intrigue.

I am also annoyed by how easy people seem to find it to tell someone else what they should do with their money and how they should value something. Please grow up. If someone wants to buy the Goldmund I have no problem with that regardless of whether I like it or would even consider purchasing it. I also do not have a problem with posting the informational content. I dislike the tone these threads eventually take and the holier-than-though tone of many posters. Even your post attempts to denigrate me for taking an unpopular stand and not jumping on the band-wagon (or lighting up the torch).

For myself, it is no big deal as it just adds more information to my database about whose opinion on head-fi I value and whose opinion I don't. And that is the whole point, the opinions expressed in this thread are of little value to me as no one has heard the Goldmund. What is so dam hard to understand?
 
Jan 28, 2008 at 5:47 AM Post #125 of 164

clarke68

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Quote:

Originally Posted by morphsci /img/forum/go_quote.gif
who on this thread has heard the Goldmund and Pioneer? I haven't, so my point is I cannot make a reasoned, scientific comment on it as an AUDIO component. Audio components need to be heard. Measurements, specifications and parts only tell part of the story.


I haven't heard either player myself, but actually I assume that the Goldmund does indeed sound better...just based on the more robust power supply (let alone the improved transport). That said, some of the more interesting points made in this thread were about what Goldmund is selling besides better sound...exclusivity, je ne sais quoi, etc.

I also find it fascinating that there are people out there to whom good value must be of zero importance...because it's almost everything to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by morphsci
I am also annoyed


Quote:

Originally Posted by morphsci
I dislike the tone these threads eventually take


There are many threads on Head-Fi that I dislike and would probably annoy me...I just don't waste my time reading them, and I certainly wouldn't take it upon myself to act as some kind of a vigilante content cop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by morphsci
Too many self-righteous ****'s that have nothing better to do than complain about what other people do.


Pot calling the kettle black?

More than happy to have you in the discussion if you have anything relevant to say about the topic. Please take your personal insults elsewhere.
 
Jan 28, 2008 at 5:54 AM Post #126 of 164

oicdn

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Quote:

Originally Posted by morphsci /img/forum/go_quote.gif
O.K. I lied.

I get it fine. There is a growing tendency on Head-Fi for destructive and useless criticism of products by those who really have no relevant opinion. Please answer my question, who on this thread has heard the Goldmund and Pioneer? I haven't, so my point is I cannot make a reasoned, scientific comment on it as an AUDIO component. Audio components need to be heard. Measurements, specifications and parts only tell part of the story. This goes all the way back to the Grado RA-1 revelation and more recently to the Rudistor witch-hunt and now the Goldmund/Pioneer intrigue.

I am also annoyed by how easy people seem to find it to tell someone else what they should do with their money and how they should value something. Please grow up. If someone wants to buy the Goldmund I have no problem with that regardless of whether I like it or would even consider purchasing it. I also do not have a problem with posting the informational content. I dislike the tone these threads eventually take and the holier-than-though tone of many posters. Even your post attempts to denigrate me for taking an unpopular stand and not jumping on the band-wagon (or lighting up the torch).

For myself, it is no big deal as it just adds more information to my database about whose opinion on head-fi I value and whose opinion I don't. And that is the whole point, the opinions expressed in this thread are of little value to me as no one has heard the Goldmund. What is so dam hard to understand?



That's a really good post.

I don't think the intent was to tell somebody how to spend their money, rather, it was pointing out that you can be a much smarter consumer by knowing that those few added parts probably are nowhere near worth the price differential, by any stretch of imagination (even in this industry) given the minor differences, power supply and case aside.

I'm now intrigued to hear atleast the Pioneer, and if anything, you can probably do most of those mods yourself, sans the pretty case for next to nothing (all things kept into perspective).
 
Jan 28, 2008 at 5:55 AM Post #127 of 164

howiebrou

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Quote:

Originally Posted by morphsci /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Please answer my question, who on this thread has heard the Goldmund and Pioneer?


I have.

The Goldmund sounds much better. No, I don't want to defend its innards but I heard these way before this was an issue and they sound like players from their respective price brackets. In fact, I thought the Goldmund was reasonable value at the time. (selling at 3.5k).
 
Jan 28, 2008 at 6:12 AM Post #128 of 164

morphsci

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Quote:

Originally Posted by clarke68 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I
More than happy to have you in the discussion if you have anything relevant to say about the topic. Please take your personal insults elsewhere.



Back at you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by howiebrou /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I have.

The Goldmund sounds much better. No, I don't want to defend its innards but I heard these way before this was an issue and they sound like players from their respective price brackets. In fact, I thought the Goldmund was reasonable value at the time. (selling at 3.5k).



Thank you. I appreciate the honesty. You may want to don your Flac jacket now.
 
Jan 28, 2008 at 10:03 AM Post #129 of 164

howiebrou

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Quote:

Originally Posted by morphsci /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Thank you. I appreciate the honesty. You may want to don your Flac jacket now.


I'm sure people will not be offended at my comments
frown.gif
 
Jan 28, 2008 at 11:14 AM Post #130 of 164

tvrbob86

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Quote:

Originally Posted by morphsci /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Complain . . . Complain . . . Complain . . . Too many self-righteous ****'s that have nothing better to do than complain about what other people do. Complain . . . Complain . . . Complain . . .


I totally agree.
 
Jan 28, 2008 at 3:07 PM Post #131 of 164

rodentmacbeastie

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Quote:

Originally Posted by tvrbob86 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I totally agree.



This sounds like complaining too! LOL! But seriously, this is simply consumer protection. I would go as far to say that something is wrong if you do not see the merit in this thread. It should be revealed when a company starts screwing it's customers. It should be revealed because it is immoral, not fuzzy warm and politically correct!
 
Jan 28, 2008 at 3:26 PM Post #132 of 164

rodentmacbeastie

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Quote:

Originally Posted by howiebrou /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I'm sure people will not be offended at my comments
frown.gif





Not offended at all. I am not interested at all if the Pioneer sounds like a $12000 player, or that Goldmund even used it. The problem as I see it is that they say they used "some" Pioneer technology. Some means to me like a Philips spinner or at least it should have more than 50% Goldmund tech. Should it not have to be at least 50% their own? On top of that they pride themselves on, and lead the consumer to believe through advertisements that they have market leading research in all of their products. As I said earlier, the only good research I can see is who's player to gut! I mean really, this is what I am doing right now!

Should I gut the $150 universal payer that I am using to build mine and sell it for $12000? Mine would be would at least $25000 anyway... I am only using the front end of a Pioneer player to the DAC, then I am using a Twisted Pear DAC to an balanced Aikido valve output stage/headamp/preamp to use the Opus DAC's SACD capability. I am building my own chassis that will be much better looking than the robo-Goldmund. I mean this is 100 times as much work as the Goldmund and with a balanced head amp/preamp tubed output it should be worth at least $25000 if you consider the parts cost alone! Take into consideration that it will kick the Goldmund's ass in features and performance. Even going to do a HTPC to hook up to the I2S of the DAC. I was actually thinking of selling these if it is half as good as I think it will be. If I do, it won't be priced using their value scale!
 
Jan 28, 2008 at 3:39 PM Post #133 of 164

memepool

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rodentmacbeastie /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Not offended at all. I am not interested at all if the Pioneer sounds like a $12000 player, or that Goldmund even used it. The problem as I see it is that they say they used "some" Pioneer technology. Some means to me like a Philips spinner or at least it should have more than 50% Goldmund tech. Should it not have to be at least 50% their own?....


This thread is so full of misinformation and half baked nonsense.

1. The Goldmund DVD player mentioned by the OP is 6000USD which has more to do with the weakness of the USD than anything else. All European kit being sold in the USA suffers from this.

2. 90%+ of so-called audiophile companies that offer DVD players are using third party transports and chipsets.
 
Jan 28, 2008 at 3:54 PM Post #135 of 164

memepool

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Quote:

Originally Posted by milkpowder /img/forum/go_quote.gif
And you got the figure "90%+" from where?
tongue.gif
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Just poking fun at you =)



biggrin.gif
fair enough but name me an audiophile company that makes a DVD transport?
 

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