[tinyman392]

Interesting App review. Very favorable overall, but reams them bad on SQ for the price.

I agreed with a lot of the non-audio portions of the review, at least the portions I could confirm myself. I think there were a few things I could find (not audio related) was when he said the stems were capacitive and force sensitive, they're only force sensitive (this is a good thing actually). Put on a pair of non-touch screen gloves and the stems still register. This was one of the first things I tested with them actually (out of curiosity). He makes a statement that Apple isn't the first to do any of the new features in the Pros. I don't think I've seen or heard of another headphone that does ANC within the ear canal nor have I heard of a company creating an internal automated seal test (even if the feature doesn't quite work the best, I have magical ears like him!), do correct me if there is another headphone that does either of these. AKG did have a full-sized headphone that adjusted the headphone's output based on internal microphones that tried to map the shape of your ear.

I actually ended up disagreeing quite a bit with lots of the audio aspects of the review. Let's start foam tips vs silicone tips. Yes, foam absorbs more sound (vs silicone that reflects it), but it also alters every headphone you give it and creates a darker tilt to the headphone. I absolutely hate this about foam tips, granted properly prepping the tips for insertion helps, it doesn't fix the issue entirely. If you prefer a darker sound, this will do it for just about any headphone. I'll agree that they are much more comfortable and isolate much better (thought it comes at a cost since they need to be replaced more readily than their silicone counterparts). In terms of SQ, foam absorbs mids and highs, silicone reflects, that internal ANC kind of minimizes both by just canceling it. All three will have their own effect on the SQ. What's best? Depends on your needs. Want something longer lasting, go silicone. Want more isolation, foam. Want a darker sound, foam. Want a brighter sound, silicone.

ANC and the effect of headphones. Whenever I turn on ANC on any headphone I've had that have it, I tend to not hear the reduction of treble. What I do hear with just about every headphone I've tried with ANC is that it rolls off the sub-bass for whatever reason (the AirPods included).

Move on to the OG AirPods and their SQ... The bass is a somewhat dirty, veiling mess; so I agree there, it's not good. Unless the midrange consists of only vocals, vocals, and more vocals, then yes, the AirPods and AirPod Pros have the same quality of midrange (kind of the reason why they work so well for phone calls). Unfortunately the Pros have a more forward midrange which has its downsides (see my post above about a neutral-ish signature) but helps in detailing, clarity, timbre, and a whole slew of other things. I'd give the original AirPods a D or C- in terms of Midrange, the new ones are probably closer to an A-. In terms of treble, the Pros are slightly more refined and have a better detailing. A lot of the issues of the original AirPods do stem from the fact that the bass is just overwhelming (a simple bass reduction EQ fixes much of it). Saying they have the same quality is a complete understatement in my mind when the Pros improve upon the bass, midrange, and treble compared to its predecessor. His opinion is that they are "meh", and I'm not going to take that away from him because a lot of people would have said the Brainwavz B2 are "meh", Etymotics are "meh", RE0s are "meh", etc. due to their own personal reasons and they have every reason to feel that way. It's kind of interesting, but the majority of headphones with a very polarizing opinion on them tend to be very midrange-focused: HiFiMan TWS, Etymotics, RE0s, even something like the HiFiMan HE-560 had somewhat of a polarizing feel when they released. Apple's not new to this either, the ADDIEM comes to mind (which was another headphone the Pros reminded me of) which have polarizing opinions on their sound.

 

[webvan]

I agreed with a lot of the non-audio portions of the review, at least the portions I could confirm myself. I think there were a few things I could find (not audio related) was when he said the stems were capacitive and force sensitive, they're only force sensitive (this is a good thing actually). Put on a pair of non-touch screen gloves and the stems still register. This was one of the first things I tested with them actually (out of curiosity). He makes a statement that Apple isn't the first to do any of the new features in the Pros. I don't think I've seen or heard of another headphone that does ANC within the ear canal nor have I heard of a company creating an internal automated seal test (even if the feature doesn't quite work the best, I have magical ears like him!), do correct me if there is another headphone that does either of these. AKG did have a full-sized headphone that adjusted the headphone's output based on internal microphones that tried to map the shape of your ear.

I actually ended up disagreeing quite a bit with lots of the audio aspects of the review. Let's start foam tips vs silicone tips. Yes, foam absorbs more sound (vs silicone that reflects it), but it also alters every headphone you give it and creates a darker tilt to the headphone. I absolutely hate this about foam tips, granted properly prepping the tips for insertion helps, it doesn't fix the issue entirely. If you prefer a darker sound, this will do it for just about any headphone. I'll agree that they are much more comfortable and isolate much better (thought it comes at a cost since they need to be replaced more readily than their silicone counterparts). In terms of SQ, foam absorbs mids and highs, silicone reflects, that internal ANC kind of minimizes both by just canceling it. All three will have their own effect on the SQ. What's best? Depends on your needs. Want something longer lasting, go silicone. Want more isolation, foam. Want a darker sound, foam. Want a brighter sound, silicone.

ANC and the effect of headphones. Whenever I turn on ANC on any headphone I've had that have it, I tend to not hear the reduction of treble. What I do hear with just about every headphone I've tried with ANC is that it rolls off the sub-bass for whatever reason (the AirPods included).

Move on to the OG AirPods and their SQ... The bass is a somewhat dirty, veiling mess; so I agree there, it's not good. Unless the midrange consists of only vocals, vocals, and more vocals, then yes, the AirPods and AirPod Pros have the same quality of midrange (kind of the reason why they work so well for phone calls). Unfortunately the Pros have a more forward midrange which has its downsides (see my post above about a neutral-ish signature) but helps in detailing, clarity, timbre, and a whole slew of other things. I'd give the original AirPods a D or C- in terms of Midrange, the new ones are probably closer to an A-. In terms of treble, the Pros are slightly more refined and have a better detailing. A lot of the issues of the original AirPods do stem from the fact that the bass is just overwhelming (a simple bass reduction EQ fixes much of it). Saying they have the same quality is a complete understatement in my mind when the Pros improve upon the bass, midrange, and treble compared to its predecessor. His opinion is that they are "meh", and I'm not going to take that away from him because a lot of people would have said the Brainwavz B2 are "meh", Etymotics are "meh", RE0s are "meh", etc. due to their own personal reasons and they have every reason to feel that way. It's kind of interesting, but the majority of headphones with a very polarizing opinion on them tend to be very midrange-focused: HiFiMan TWS, Etymotics, RE0s, even something like the HiFiMan HE-560 had somewhat of a polarizing feel when they released. Apple's not new to this either, the ADDIEM comes to mind (which was another headphone the Pros reminded me of) which have polarizing opinions on their sound.

All good points (impact of Foam, of ANC, of "meh") but just to clarify, both the Sony WF-1000Xm3 and the Libratone Track Air+ (not the MW07 plus though) have "Feedback ANC" (the mic inside) on top of ForceFeed ANC (the mic outside) and of course all the top headsets by Bose, Sony Jabra have that too. As for the test, interestingly the (few) reviewers of the Track Air + indicated that Libratone was planning to add a "fit test" in their app but that has not materialized so far. TBH I find this test a bit "gimmicky" given the limited choice of tips anyway and it should be easy enough to find out if you have a good seal or not, like talking with ANC off

I've said it before but I'll say it again because I haven't really seen any reviews saying that or even many comments about that here but I think that Apple should get a lot of credit for coming up with the first IEMs (wired or wireless) that work by just being dropped in like you would put on a headset, or can someone point me to other examples ?

 

[zeppu08]

11.11 is coming. Whats the best do you guys recommend to get?

 

[tinyman392]

All good points (impact of Foam, of ANC, of "meh") but just to clarify, both the Sony WF-1000Xm3 and the Libratone Track Air+ (not the MW07 plus though) have "Feedback ANC" (the mic inside) on top of ForceFeed ANC (the mic outside) and of course all the top headsets by Bose, Sony Jabra have that too. As for the test, interestingly the (few) reviewers of the Track Air + indicated that Libratone was planning to add a "fit test" in their app but that has not materialized so far. TBH I find this test a bit "gimmicky" given the limited choice of tips anyway and it should be easy enough to find out if you have a good seal or not, like talking with ANC off

I've said it before but I'll say it again because I haven't really seen any reviews saying that or even many comments about that here but I think that Apple should get a lot of credit for coming up with the first IEMs (wired or wireless) that work by just being dropped in like you would put on a headset, or can someone point me to other examples ?

Good to know. My WF-1000X are a little dated at this point since they're 2 generations behind, but I know they didn't have the mic pointing towards the ear drum to cancel that stuff out. I was thinking about upgrading them at one point to see what's changed. I may still do that. It's pretty easy to figure out if you have a seal for the most part. It's more difficult to see if you have a proper seal or the best seal which is why I tend to run to a test like Sensaphonics; it's 100% objective, but does add some objectivity to it..

I'm not sure what you mean by just being dropped in like you would put on a headset. Most of the TWS headphones I have power on when you pull them out of the case so they're running already when they're in your ears. Though they don't know whether or not they're in your ears. Like if you were to take off the AirPods, they'll stop playing audio through the AirPods and go through the source device instead. If that's what you're referring to, then yes, I'm unaware of any other headphone manufacturers that put proximity sensors on their earbuds.

 

[webvan]

Sorry I meant IEMs that can be dropped in your ears and you get a perfect fit/seal for hours without having to push them in, wriggle them around, repeat when the seal breaks when you walk/talk /chew, etc..

 

[dweaver]

Well I stopped by the Apple store to try out the APP and was very impressed with the ANC and comfort. The store was extremely busy and noisy and when I placed in the APP they just cut 80% of that noise away. I also was able to achieve a good seal by simply putting them in my ears and they then simply stopped feeling like something in my ears, extremely comfortable. I did a shake test and they never moved either to nice and secure. I tested the ambient mode talking with the Apple Rep and they worked great in that fashion so would be excellent at the office so I could hear co-workers.

Sound wise, they have nice bass but it lagged behind my Momentum True Wireless for depth. The mids were stronger and sounded good. The treble seemed rolled off compared to the MTW. I was listening to Patricia Barber Come on Light my Fire and Led Zeppelin Emmigrant Song for my testing. All in all I thought they lagged behind my MTW for sound quality. But this was an extremely small sample size with no true A/B testing so not a real test. Not to mention the environment was extremely loud so not a good place for testing.

I have to say I really liked what I experienced. I now have to decide whether the non Audiophile aspects were good enough to make me consider the extreme cost and trade offs the APP have as compared to something like the Liberty 2 Pro which is $129 cheaper here in Canada. In other words do I need ANC and Ambient mode that badly and would I be willing to trade the better audio experience of the Liberty 2 Pro.

My budget being as tight as it is, I am still leaning toward the L2P especially since I am a Samsung S9 user so will never be able to take full advantage of the APP.

 

[clerkpalmer]

If SQ is your thing, the noble falcon could very well be the best yet. Should be available any day now. I really want to try them but the stems are elongated and while I understand the design choice, i do not enjoy deep insertion iems. I'll bet they sound amazing for the 150 asking price.

 

[tinyman392]

If SQ is your thing, the noble falcon could very well be the best yet. Should be available any day now. I really want to try them but the stems are elongated and while I understand the design choice, i do not enjoy deep insertion iems. I'll bet they sound amazing for the 150 asking price.

I preordered these when I heard about them mid-October. I have no clue when I'll receive them though. First Noble product, kinda', I have the Heir Audio 4.ai and 3.ai (the 4.ai actually caused a lot of polarity in how they sounded, this hobby is so exciting!).

 

[karloil]

If anyone is curious about the new Lypertek Tevi, I made a full video about them

Just additional FYI

5:28 - it doesn't matter which side you connect 1st during pairing, either side will work.

5:58 - Lypertek is a subdivision of Oriveti

9:47 - agreed on the sweet sounding midrange

 

[tinyman392]

Sorry I meant IEMs that can be dropped in your ears and you get a perfect fit/seal for hours without having to push them in, wriggle them around, repeat when the seal breaks when you walk/talk /chew, etc..

That's going to be ergonomics more than anything. Also depends on the ears they are going into as well. The majority of the headphones I have are this way, though they seal more reliably if you pull up on the helix of your ear as you're putting them in.

 

[VZWDJ]

Any recommendations on True wireless earbuds?

 

[clerkpalmer]

Any recommendations on True wireless earbuds?

Liberty 2 pro is a great all around mid range option with a solid feature set and great sound. Good place to start. Welcome. If that doesn't suit you, read up a little in the thread.

 

[VZWDJ]

Thanks for the recommendation... What about with reached to mic quality for calls?

 

[clerkpalmer]

Thanks for the recommendation... What about with reached to mic quality for calls?

Not good for that. Apple or Jabra maybe. Others may have other thoughts. I dont use mine for calls generally.

 

[jasaero]

Any recommendations on True wireless earbuds?

If SQ is primary concern, these are great. Not many will sound better even for way more. Battery life isn't awesome and call quality is OK. Nothing real bad though with them. And seems rubber button eventually gets messed up and needs glued back on.
https://www.amazon.com/SSK-Bluetoot...sr_1_1?keywords=SSK+tws&qid=1572749740&sr=8-1