Going fully Wireless IEMs. Too soon? Or are we there yet?
Jun 20, 2021 at 1:58 PM Post #34,501 of 38,787

clerkpalmer

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Be wary with the iPhone. I have an iPhone and an Xperia 1 ii, I also have the PI7. Ive extensively gone back and forth between the two testing side by side, the SQ on the Xperia is noticeably better. Like a big jump, enough to take me aback as before I did the testing I had no idea BT sources varied so much. I think you might be doing the PI7 and the XM4 a disservice using on an iPhone personally, or just be aware you're hearing them in a handicapped state. Bloody annoying too as im a bit of an iPhone fanboy otherwise.

Of those I've owned the MTW2, APP and MW07+ (MW08 kind of) and PI7. Pi7 sound the best by a good margin for me.
I’m not saying you are not correct but I frankly don’t understand how this is possible. Apples AAC implementation is excellent. After that, the phone doesn’t really do much for a BT headset. The DAC and Amp are on the buds themselves. I ran the pI7 over an iPhone, a Pixel and an iPhone using the AptxHD adapter. Maybe it’s my old ears but I could not tell much difference and certainly wouldn’t declare the iPhone handicapped. I just don’t see what variances they phone offers in this chain other than some volume control.
 
Jun 20, 2021 at 2:12 PM Post #34,502 of 38,787

Jhericurls

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Why isn't there any threads for the Master and Dynamic MW08? I ordered a pair recently and having used them briefly, I'll be returning them.

My initial plan was to upgrade my WF-1000XM3 to the MX4 but because of the massive price hike I decided maybe I should explore other premium options. I did plan on trying the Pi7 but that short battery life was a deal breaker and next up for best sound quality was MW08 according to the reviews.

The sound quality of the MW08 is good but its too bright and didn't have the warmth or energy of the XM3. Then there is the ANC or lack of, you will be hard pressed to tell if its on or off, it's so subtle. All this is a shame as the earphones itself is great, love the physical buttons, size, build and fit.
 
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Jun 20, 2021 at 2:16 PM Post #34,503 of 38,787

clerkpalmer

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Why isn't there any threads for the Master and Dynamic MW08? I ordered a pair recently and having used them briefly, I'll be returning them.

My initial plan was to upgrade my WF-1000XM3 to the MX4 but because of the massive price hike I decided maybe I should explore other premium options. I did plan on trying the Pi7 but that short battery life was a deal breaker and next up for best sound quality was MW08 according to the reviews.

The sound quality of the MW08 is good but its too bright and didn't have the warmth or energy of the XM3. Then there is the ANC or lack of, you will be hard pressed to tell if its on or off, it's so subtle. All this is a shame as the earphones itself is great, love the physical buttons, size, build and fit.
I haven’t heard the mw08 described as bright. My set was muddy and overly warm. I wonder if something is wrong with your set.
 
Jun 20, 2021 at 3:45 PM Post #34,504 of 38,787

miserybeforethemusic

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Why isn't there any threads for the Master and Dynamic MW08? I ordered a pair recently and having used them briefly, I'll be returning them.

My initial plan was to upgrade my WF-1000XM3 to the MX4 but because of the massive price hike I decided maybe I should explore other premium options. I did plan on trying the Pi7 but that short battery life was a deal breaker and next up for best sound quality was MW08 according to the reviews.

The sound quality of the MW08 is good but its too bright and didn't have the warmth or energy of the XM3. Then there is the ANC or lack of, you will be hard pressed to tell if its on or off, it's so subtle. All this is a shame as the earphones itself is great, love the physical buttons, size, build and fit.
Not enough hype and interest, probably. A lot of us have found it easier to use one collective TWS thread instead of building individual ones.

And I might catch flak for this, but it really does seem like the TWS hype train runs similar to the Chi-Fi train when it was just leaving the station. I don't think dedicated threads for individual stuff would last as long.
 
Jun 20, 2021 at 4:00 PM Post #34,505 of 38,787

clerkpalmer

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Not enough hype and interest, probably. A lot of us have found it easier to use one collective TWS thread instead of building individual ones.

And I might catch flak for this, but it really does seem like the TWS hype train runs similar to the Chi-Fi train when it was just leaving the station. I don't think dedicated threads for individual stuff would last as long.
Probably not except for flagship models from the big manufacturers. APP thread petered out. The pI7 and XM4 threads are pretty solid though. XM4 is like 40 pages strong.
 
Jun 20, 2021 at 5:21 PM Post #34,506 of 38,787

gwompki

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Thanks for all the birthday salutations. Spent several hours with the Devialet Gemini, find them very similar to the pi7 but a little bit louder and treble is probably a tad clearer on the pi7. Volume is quite low when using Samsung S20 ultra as source but a lot louder when using the Sony n55l (no eu volume limit). Pairing very simple unlike the pi7 that won’t connect to the Sony nw55l without going through the app on a phone. ANC seems good but I’m in my house so I shall test it when I go on the tube and train tomorrow. On a sidenote; the Gemini come with tips that seem too small for them, they do have a silicon filter (prob a bad wax guard) so I’m using Comply, although going to try Spinfits later today, whilst the pi7 come with some of the best standard included tips I’ve seen recently with two felt type filters in each tip (they work really well to tame the bass on the m&d mw08). Need to get a better source device so I’m considering the A&K alpha which I’ve seen reduced to £499.00 (always like the idea of a dap with 2 sd card slots).

I have just ordered a set of Geminis. In my journey so far I have had the XM3, the XM4 and currently the Bose QC. Buds. I like the Bose for the most part, certainly more than the Sony's in terms of sound signature. It sounds like the Geminis tick all of my boxes from the reviews I have read, but we shall see once I receive them on Wednesday.
 
Jun 20, 2021 at 7:07 PM Post #34,507 of 38,787

samandhi

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I’m not saying you are not correct but I frankly don’t understand how this is possible. Apples AAC implementation is excellent. After that, the phone doesn’t really do much for a BT headset. The DAC and Amp are on the buds themselves. I ran the pI7 over an iPhone, a Pixel and an iPhone using the AptxHD adapter. Maybe it’s my old ears but I could not tell much difference and certainly wouldn’t declare the iPhone handicapped. I just don’t see what variances they phone offers in this chain other than some volume control.
In a way you are both right. A BT transport is a BT transport, regardless of the phone/DAP you are using. The difference here is potentially twofold:
  1. If AAC is being used on the iPhone, but LDAC on android, you might hear the difference because of the bitrate differences.
  2. Apple does not allow true bit perfect playing, and captures any/all signals going to output (or in this case BT) and adds their own system DSP. This is part of the reason that other system-wide EQ apps don't work (unless you have jailbroken the device). To test this, you can start a playback on iPhone, then go into the EQ settings and chance it. You will hear a difference. This will hold true even for known audiophile apps like Neutron, UAPP, etc... (unless they have changed that behavior since last I had/used an iDevice).
There may be another explanation, but atm I can't think of it. Just know that as long as there is no DSP being applied ALL BT transport devices should sound exactly the same because, as @clerkpalmer said, the DAC and the AMP are both onboard the buds themselves, and the device is ONLY a transport.

Even the volumes will be the same, unless the device has a cap. Example; all volumes can be seen as 0-100. If a manufacturer puts a cap, it will now be 0-85 (something like that). You can also add a "volume booster", but these don't actually make the initial volume somehow go higher, they simply add software gain on top of the already 100% volume, therefore adding distortion/clipping. These are gimmick apps, but you may not notice as much if you have crappy IEMs/headphones/TWS.
 
Jun 20, 2021 at 9:06 PM Post #34,508 of 38,787

DigDub

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Why isn't there any threads for the Master and Dynamic MW08? I ordered a pair recently and having used them briefly, I'll be returning them.

My initial plan was to upgrade my WF-1000XM3 to the MX4 but because of the massive price hike I decided maybe I should explore other premium options. I did plan on trying the Pi7 but that short battery life was a deal breaker and next up for best sound quality was MW08 according to the reviews.

The sound quality of the MW08 is good but its too bright and didn't have the warmth or energy of the XM3. Then there is the ANC or lack of, you will be hard pressed to tell if its on or off, it's so subtle. All this is a shame as the earphones itself is great, love the physical buttons, size, build and fit.
It sounds like you didn't get a good seal with the mw08.
 
Jun 20, 2021 at 11:12 PM Post #34,509 of 38,787

TK33

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I haven’t heard the mw08 described as bright. My set was muddy and overly warm. I wonder if something is wrong with your set.


This agrees with alot of the feedback I have read.

@Jhericurls I actually stayed away from the MW08 because of reports of more/muddy bass. Something sounding bright could also be a fit issue with the tips not creating a proper seal. I sometimes have to use different size tips for different TWS. For example, I usually use medium tips (currently using M Final Audio Type E on my Senn MTW and M Spinfit CP100z on my PI7) but I have to use L tips on my MW07 Go (both Final Audio Type E and Spinfit CP100z). May be worth tip rolling if you havent done so already.

The technology keeps advancing way too quickly and there are constantly new releases coming out, which is why I think this thread is great.
 
Jun 21, 2021 at 5:02 AM Post #34,510 of 38,787

mainguy

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In a way you are both right. A BT transport is a BT transport, regardless of the phone/DAP you are using. The difference here is potentially twofold:
  1. If AAC is being used on the iPhone, but LDAC on android, you might hear the difference because of the bitrate differences.
  2. Apple does not allow true bit perfect playing, and captures any/all signals going to output (or in this case BT) and adds their own system DSP. This is part of the reason that other system-wide EQ apps don't work (unless you have jailbroken the device). To test this, you can start a playback on iPhone, then go into the EQ settings and chance it. You will hear a difference. This will hold true even for known audiophile apps like Neutron, UAPP, etc... (unless they have changed that behavior since last I had/used an iDevice).
There may be another explanation, but atm I can't think of it. Just know that as long as there is no DSP being applied ALL BT transport devices should sound exactly the same because, as @clerkpalmer said, the DAC and the AMP are both onboard the buds themselves, and the device is ONLY a transport.

Even the volumes will be the same, unless the device has a cap. Example; all volumes can be seen as 0-100. If a manufacturer puts a cap, it will now be 0-85 (something like that). You can also add a "volume booster", but these don't actually make the initial volume somehow go higher, they simply add software gain on top of the already 100% volume, therefore adding distortion/clipping. These are gimmick apps, but you may not notice as much if you have crappy IEMs/headphones/TWS.
This might be true in theory, but it isnt in pratice. A/B test it, I implore you!

I had my PI7 with my XS Max happily. Then by chance I tried them with an Aptx HD device, and immediately noticed something. Then some serious side by side testing ensued, I listened to literally the same 5s of audio on each, looking for painstaking details consciously.

Absolutely anyone will notice the difference, 100% certain. Its there and obvious. So obvious I switched to an android phone, which I can assure you, I really didn't want to do, but its a serious jump in SQ for the PI7

This is to the Xperia 1 ii btw, so I dont know if that phone has anything unique going for it, I doubt it. Should be obvious on all devices.
 
Jun 21, 2021 at 5:08 AM Post #34,511 of 38,787

Silentism

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Looking for recommendations, hoping this is the right thread to go about?

I bought the NUARL NT01AX back when it was still around $120-150, and its insane how fast the price dropped and they still sell it! But I'm looking to upgrade now. I'm thinking about buying the N6 Pro, but was wondering how it compares to the Sony XM3 since those dropped in price with the release of XM4. I really like the sound signature of those NT01AX, and I use HD650 at home. I would consider the n10 pro but there aren't enough reviews around it, and it seems kinda hit or miss with what I've seen so far (but still a small sample size of reviews/opinions). So basically,

How does the Nuarl N6 Pro compare to Sony XM3?
Does the N6 pro have a better/different fit than NT01AX? (mine slip out when I look down).
Are there any other contenders in the $100-150 price range that have good midrange while also a good bass response that doesn't muddy up the lower midrange?

Thanks for anyone who can help me out!
 
Jun 21, 2021 at 5:39 AM Post #34,512 of 38,787

Taz777

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I was hoping for some great deals on Amazon Prime day but found no real deals from my shortlist of wireless IEMs further up this thread, with some of them items not even in stock. I was about to give up when I came across the Jabra Elite 85t at a good Prime Day price - £179 (British Pounds Sterling), with next day delivery included. I pulled the trigger as a few of the features stood out for me: vented earpieces and call quality. It's hard to find a TWS that ticks every box so I'm hoping these will be good enough for my long evening walks.
 
Jun 21, 2021 at 7:19 AM Post #34,513 of 38,787

Firevortex

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Yeah, I think I will return the pair to get the nuarl n10 plus or the sony wf1000xm4 ,which have the 5.2 bluetooth because the connectivity issue still there and I give up on this (this even worse than my kz e10).

i think you might have gotten the older N10Pro with connectivity issues. they did a recall on it. luckily mine had no issues with connectivity. i'm gonna pre-order the wf1000xm4 and compare it with the N10 pro. Its still king of sound stage for me.
 
Jun 21, 2021 at 7:44 AM Post #34,514 of 38,787

Firevortex

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Looking for recommendations, hoping this is the right thread to go about?

I bought the NUARL NT01AX back when it was still around $120-150, and its insane how fast the price dropped and they still sell it! But I'm looking to upgrade now. I'm thinking about buying the N6 Pro, but was wondering how it compares to the Sony XM3 since those dropped in price with the release of XM4. I really like the sound signature of those NT01AX, and I use HD650 at home. I would consider the n10 pro but there aren't enough reviews around it, and it seems kinda hit or miss with what I've seen so far (but still a small sample size of reviews/opinions). So basically,

How does the Nuarl N6 Pro compare to Sony XM3?
Does the N6 pro have a better/different fit than NT01AX? (mine slip out when I look down).
Are there any other contenders in the $100-150 price range that have good midrange while also a good bass response that doesn't muddy up the lower midrange?

Thanks for anyone who can help me out!

I bought the sony xm3 when its first released. sounded a lot better than my Jabra 65t at the time and that was 2 yrs ago. I personally didn't like the XM3 sound. Just didn't have the clarity. N6 pro has a intimate sound to them because of the forward warm vocals. n10pro sounds totally different. Its focused on sound stage and neutral clarity. If you like the HD650 signature you'll prob prefer the N6 pro. they're going for quite cheap atm around $120USD.
 
Jun 21, 2021 at 8:29 AM Post #34,515 of 38,787

tiagopinto

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What happens when the Chi-Fi market has completely shut out our own domestic one?

Well, as we spoke before, I was going to buy a few cables and accessories from AliExpress but (thankfully before I completed my purchase) just got warned by a friend this weekend that if my stuff arrived after June 30th I’d be subject to the “new customs rules” (effective July 1st) which will tax EVERYTHING coming from China (not sure if it’s only Portugal, almost sure it’s the whole European Union) so my “bargains” would soon become headaches and I would pay VAT and customs costs on ALL my articles.

Major bummer but I guess the EU is protecting the “inside” market. I’m very curious how the market will change in the next few months for purchases on behemoths like AliExpress, Banggood, Gearbest and others...
 

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