Going fully Wireless IEMs. Too soon? Or are we there yet?
Jun 11, 2021 at 9:09 PM Post #34,171 of 61,356
I prefer them over the MW08. I thought the MW08 were muddy and I could never get a good fit. The ANC and sound is much better on the M4s in my opinion. That said, the build quality is better on the M&D earbuds.
Thanks for the feedback on the MW08 (thought about picking those up as well). I just picked up the XM4 and am trying to get a good fit. The L tips seem to work the best, so long as a smash them down first. Compared to the XM3, the build of the XM4s are definitely better and feel well built and solid. The case is OK and it's put together well, but some matte metal would have been a nice touch at this price point.

Overall, I think the sound is better than the XM3, however, because I no longer have those, it's based on memory and general impressions. It sounds as if the bass on the XM4 extends deeper and the sound is cleaner, at least gauging on what my "feelings" tell me.

The ANC is great. I need to test out more against the Bose to see where they rank, but right now, it seems like the XM4 or Bose are the best in the game.
 
Jun 11, 2021 at 10:03 PM Post #34,172 of 61,356
After today, I can confirm that the XM4s do not sound as good on the receiving end of calls/conferencing as the other TWS I have (B&W and Air Pods Pro). Not a big deal to me as I will not be using them for that generally, but if that is important to anyone. They said it still sounded clear enough, just not as nice as the others.
 
Jun 11, 2021 at 10:15 PM Post #34,173 of 61,356
After today, I can confirm that the XM4s do not sound as good on the receiving end of calls/conferencing as the other TWS I have (B&W and Air Pods Pro). Not a big deal to me as I will not be using them for that generally, but if that is important to anyone. They said it still sounded clear enough, just not as nice as the others.
Did you notice any issues with sibilance, ringing, or other artifacts at the end of speech? I'm running into this with calls, podcasts, audiobooks, any spoken word material and debating either returning or replacing them. If someone else is experiencing this as well, I might just return and refund and not try another set.
 
Jun 11, 2021 at 10:22 PM Post #34,174 of 61,356
Did you notice any issues with sibilance, ringing, or other artifacts at the end of speech? I'm running into this with calls, podcasts, audiobooks, any spoken word material and debating either returning or replacing them. If someone else is experiencing this as well, I might just return and refund and not try another set.
I haven't up to this point. I have been trying to mix them in on conference calls the last couple days, but nothing yet. The folks on the other end of the calls did not even point out to me that I sounded different. I had to specifically ask and swap then ask again to get a side by side test case. I actually thought they sounded pretty good for calls along with the ANC. I do know that my co workers setup sometimes will cause echoes on our zoom calls, but nothing new to me now. At first I though it was me switching to my phone, but not the case. Good luck.
 
Jun 12, 2021 at 2:57 AM Post #34,175 of 61,356
Hey I’m glad you like them. I tested them using iPhone 12 Pro Max AAC.

When I tried the included foam tips, the sound was really quiet. Even with my favorite tips (the Acoustone’s), it didn’t get very loud and I’m not even really into loud music.
Ah, I wonder if I'm getting lucky when the aptx performance? Also, there's a setting in the app you can download that let's you boost volume and also adjust the eq a bit, were you able to download and try? I had no problem at all with volume, using foam
 
Jun 12, 2021 at 5:42 AM Post #34,176 of 61,356
Ah nice I have quite a few local files too. DSDs sound incredible.

right now I’m rolling with Tidal and Qobuz. How does Amazon compare?

I came across an app or some kind of product a while back that synchronizes playlists and songs between services but I can’t remember where I saw it. I’m kind wasting storage on my DAP SD card because I have some of the same tracks stored offline.

Yep, someone here recommended this to me https://soundiiz.com/
 
Jun 12, 2021 at 7:22 AM Post #34,177 of 61,356
So I got the XM4 and to my ears, the sound profile is slightly improved over the XM3. They also really benefit from tip rolling. I ended on a pair of FIIO tips that came with my FH5 which I felt really enhanced the sound stage and instrument separation.

I went ahead and returned the XM3 yesterday, but curiosity got the better of me and I picked up the Bose QC buds as an exchange. I have to say, to my ears and the type of music I listen to, the Bose are superior to both the XM3 and XM4 in terms of sound quality. The XM4 while sounding better than the XM3 still has that boomy bass that bleeds into the mids. I get that that is the Sony house sound and it DOES sound really good with a lot of music, I just don't think it is for me. I know Bose is pretty universally trashed in the audio world which I totally understand and think some of that is justified historically. However, ever since I heard Tyll singing the praises of the QC35 (which I also own as I got it as a gift) I have given them another chance. The QC buds sound VERY similar to the QC 35 II. Again, house sound, yada yada yada. I'm sure some of it is my old man ears but that's probably the Bose target demo :sweat_smile:. They certainly aren't the be all/end all in terms of audio. My HD-6XX / Bottlehead Crack or FIIO FH5/LG V30 are both superior combos, but the Bose do have a very pleasing sound to my ears with great noise cancelling, comfort and in-ear stability.

All that said, the Bose are not nearly as nice in terms of features such as calling, the app experience, eq, etc. Plus they are quite big and look a little goofy. It's still too early to say for certain as I have only had the XM4 for 2 days and the Bose less than a day, but I think I will be keeping the Bose and returning the XM4.

I really want to hear the B&W PI7 but at $400 I'm having a hard time justifying the cost for what will likely become my gym buds.
 
Jun 12, 2021 at 7:30 AM Post #34,178 of 61,356
Went out for a run in the XM4 today connected to iPhone X and happy to report they stay secured in the ear, was an easy run at around 8’55 and they stayed perfectly glued to my ears.

Also I find that the rose gold accent now looks like you’re wearing earrings or something in your ears, perhaps it was because it was a particularly sunny day today so was catching the light lol

Also, would like to find out if Sony sell these new eartips. I find they’re different to the XM3 foam tips, in a good way, very comfy and more squishy than before but they pick up oil and sweat more so look more worn out but a quick wipe solves that but so far so good.

One other observation is although I like the matte finish on the buds and case, they do pick up finger smudges due to the finish.
 
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Jun 12, 2021 at 7:37 AM Post #34,179 of 61,356
So I got the XM4 and to my ears, the sound profile is slightly improved over the XM3. They also really benefit from tip rolling. I ended on a pair of FIIO tips that came with my FH5 which I felt really enhanced the sound stage and instrument separation.

I went ahead and returned the XM3 yesterday, but curiosity got the better of me and I picked up the Bose QC buds as an exchange. I have to say, to my ears and the type of music I listen to, the Bose are superior to both the XM3 and XM4 in terms of sound quality. The XM4 while sounding better than the XM3 still has that boomy bass that bleeds into the mids. I get that that is the Sony house sound and it DOES sound really good with a lot of music, I just don't think it is for me. I know Bose is pretty universally trashed in the audio world which I totally understand and think some of that is justified historically. However, ever since I heard Tyll singing the praises of the QC35 (which I also own as I got it as a gift) I have given them another chance. The QC buds sound VERY similar to the QC 35 II. Again, house sound, yada yada yada. I'm sure some of it is my old man ears but that's probably the Bose target demo :sweat_smile:. They certainly aren't the be all/end all in terms of audio. My HD-6XX / Bottlehead Crack or FIIO FH5/LG V30 are both superior combos, but the Bose do have a very pleasing sound to my ears with great noise cancelling, comfort and in-ear stability.

All that said, the Bose are not nearly as nice in terms of features such as calling, the app experience, eq, etc. Plus they are quite big and look a little goofy. It's still too early to say for certain as I have only had the XM4 for 2 days and the Bose less than a day, but I think I will be keeping the Bose and returning the XM4.

I really want to hear the B&W PI7 but at $400 I'm having a hard time justifying the cost for what will likely become my gym buds.
Yeah, QCbuds is probably my fav TWS in terms of sound. What impressed me was the soundstage (huge!) and the bass. I hated the bulk. I don't like the fullsized QC series. I can'f stand the treble quality.

I found XM3 bass just poor quality. Not the QCbuds, which was surprising for TWS. Only other with good bass was Galaxy buds pro, but I had to use Moondrop Kanas Pro eartips to achieve that. Stock tips sucked. I hated the highs. It had a harsh peak somewhere I couldn't stand.

What I want is ANC peerformance and size of APP (or galaxy buds) with the sound performance of QCbuds.
 
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Jun 12, 2021 at 7:37 AM Post #34,180 of 61,356
So I got the XM4 and to my ears, the sound profile is slightly improved over the XM3. They also really benefit from tip rolling. I ended on a pair of FIIO tips that came with my FH5 which I felt really enhanced the sound stage and instrument separation.

I went ahead and returned the XM3 yesterday, but curiosity got the better of me and I picked up the Bose QC buds as an exchange. I have to say, to my ears and the type of music I listen to, the Bose are superior to both the XM3 and XM4 in terms of sound quality. The XM4 while sounding better than the XM3 still has that boomy bass that bleeds into the mids. I get that that is the Sony house sound and it DOES sound really good with a lot of music, I just don't think it is for me. I know Bose is pretty universally trashed in the audio world which I totally understand and think some of that is justified historically. However, ever since I heard Tyll singing the praises of the QC35 (which I also own as I got it as a gift) I have given them another chance. The QC buds sound VERY similar to the QC 35 II. Again, house sound, yada yada yada. I'm sure some of it is my old man ears but that's probably the Bose target demo :sweat_smile:. They certainly aren't the be all/end all in terms of audio. My HD-6XX / Bottlehead Crack or FIIO FH5/LG V30 are both superior combos, but the Bose do have a very pleasing sound to my ears with great noise cancelling, comfort and in-ear stability.

All that said, the Bose are not nearly as nice in terms of features such as calling, the app experience, eq, etc. Plus they are quite big and look a little goofy. It's still too early to say for certain as I have only had the XM4 for 2 days and the Bose less than a day, but I think I will be keeping the Bose and returning the XM4.

I really want to hear the B&W PI7 but at $400 I'm having a hard time justifying the cost for what will likely become my gym buds.

I feel the XM4 have the right sound profile for a fun listen and especially for out and about. If you want more analytical, go wired as I always say. Bass is definitely an area where they have improved over the xm3 I feel. The few EDM tracks I played even on iPhone sounds much better than XM3, authoritative but not boomy.

The double bass on 'Perfect' by Fairground Attraction is great.

Over LDAC the XM4 is 👌 I encourage all to try it if you can. One of the reasons to get them IMO.
 
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Jun 12, 2021 at 7:38 AM Post #34,181 of 61,356
Yeah, QCbuds is probably my fav TWS in terms of sound. What impressed me was the soundstage (huge!) and the bass. I hated the bulk. I don't like the fullsized QC series.
QC35II were pretty decent I thought and I’m generally not a fan of Bose.
 
Jun 12, 2021 at 8:36 AM Post #34,182 of 61,356
Have to ask a few questions first:
  1. What content will you be consuming (genres of music, apps used, VoIP calls, etc)?
  2. What about the N6 Pro do you wish you could improve?
  3. What features are absolute must-haves? Nice-to-haves? Don't-wants?
  4. How much are you willing to spend?
If you priority is sound quality over everything else, my suggestion is to just grab a set of TWS-IEM adapters (like the iBasso CF01 or Fiio UTWS3) and call it a day. You're going to get a consistently better experience in terms of SQ that way. That being said, if you still want this to be TWS-specific, help me out with the four questions I put up and I'll try to steer you in the right direction.
1. Mainly focus in music playing. I will use my Air Pod for my daily conference call usage. Genre of music…. Technically I’m listening to pop rock indie acoustic and etc, non specific. IMHO, shouldn’t a good earphone is to reproduce the original recording song? Thus, nothing specific in genres.

2. I am not sure if this is the limitation of single driver earphone, but I wish for better music separation and reproduction, the low can go lower (and deeper but not full of it) and the high can be higher (and clearer but not noisier).

3. Features must have is wireless Ifor the convenient, can produce better sound quality without the need of additional adapter. If the call quality (& latency) can be better and replacing my Air Pod will be a great plus.

4. I do not set a budget yet, but I’m eyeing B&W PI7 and KEF MU3. Both are acceptable to me.

Thanks in advance for your time and helps. Cheers.
 
Jun 12, 2021 at 9:31 AM Post #34,184 of 61,356
IMHO, shouldn’t a good earphone is to reproduce the original recording song? Thus, nothing specific in genres.

This is definitely my belief. This is what I’m always looking for in any type of headphone. It’s called Fidelity. In our case, High-Fidelity.

TWS are extremely convenient but... are not there yet (but are coming closer). BTLEAudio/LC3 will take us closer or hopefully pretty much there. I believe one other possible solution would be Wi-Fi. But tech wise it’s currently not feasible (mainly because of power and size).

Until then we can feast on whatever is here. For me it’s not reasonable to spend more than 200$ on a device that will last probably no more than two years and where this new tech is impeding in less than a years time. But the pursuit for that fidelity takes some of us there, understandably. Some of us are even grabbing our beloved IEM’s and connecting them to somewhat cumbersome adapters so we may be closer to the goal mingling quality and convenience.

We progress, pushing the market and being pushed by the industry.
 
Jun 12, 2021 at 11:13 AM Post #34,185 of 61,356
QC35II were pretty decent I thought and I’m generally not a fan of Bose.
Hear, here! Still have the original QC35 that were gifted to me by the wife on original release. Imo. One of the best-built consumer products I've ever bought. Was the first emergence of that refreshed house sound, but I do miss their old multidriver floorstanders (think they were the 501). That was Bose at its finest.
1. Mainly focus in music playing. I will use my Air Pod for my daily conference call usage. Genre of music…. Technically I’m listening to pop rock indie acoustic and etc, non specific. IMHO, shouldn’t a good earphone is to reproduce the original recording song? Thus, nothing specific in genres.

2. I am not sure if this is the limitation of single driver earphone, but I wish for better music separation and reproduction, the low can go lower (and deeper but not full of it) and the high can be higher (and clearer but not noisier).

3. Features must have is wireless Ifor the convenient, can produce better sound quality without the need of additional adapter. If the call quality (& latency) can be better and replacing my Air Pod will be a great plus.

4. I do not set a budget yet, but I’m eyeing B&W PI7 and KEF MU3. Both are acceptable to me.

Thanks in advance for your time and helps. Cheers.
You may want to consider multi-driver. I can't recommend the B&W because I've never tried it, but I do have the Noble Falcon Pro, ADV M5-TWS, and JBL Club Pro+ (assuming they're compatible with your ears) all get you pretty darn close. In the case of the ADV or JBL, they tremendously benefit from the Azla Crystal tips (about $20 for a pack of 2). SpinFit CP100 worked well with the JBL, too, but I prefer the Azla tips' tackiness for consistent fit and basically no nozzle to mess with the sound signature.

Had you not made a comment that asked for bass to dig low, I'd also recommend the UE FITS or Technics AZ70W as both have exceptional staging and midrange detail. Personally, I think the FITS are still one of my absolute favorites, but they're definitely a grower and don't have some of the bass weight you're probably looking for. Perhaps later on when you're willing to go for something a little more neutral. Those are all-day comfortable as well, thanks to their pretty shallow insertion to the ear canal. The Technics are live/acoustic beasts, but also have a similar issue to the UEs when it comes to bass presence. I'd attribute that to the relatively large dynamic drivers in each, which tend to excel in bass quality at the expense of quantity.
This is definitely my belief. This is what I’m always looking for in any type of headphone. It’s called Fidelity. In our case, High-Fidelity.

TWS are extremely convenient but... are not there yet (but are coming closer). BTLEAudio/LC3 will take us closer or hopefully pretty much there. I believe one other possible solution would be Wi-Fi. But tech wise it’s currently not feasible (mainly because of power and size).

Until then we can feast on whatever is here. For me it’s not reasonable to spend more than 200$ on a device that will last probably no more than two years and where this new tech is impeding in less than a years time. But the pursuit for that fidelity takes some of us there, understandably. Some of us are even grabbing our beloved IEM’s and connecting them to somewhat cumbersome adapters so we may be closer to the goal mingling quality and convenience.

We progress, pushing the market and being pushed by the industry.
All of this is why I have the Etymotion cable for the ER4XR and the CF01 for everything else. It takes the "what if" out of the equation and lets you know what IEM X sounds like wireless. Great way to both set up a reference point and give IEMs more regular use than they may have in the past. And they're blooming comfortable to boot. FiiO and TRN make a version as well, but again...no personal experience. Others can chime in on their experiences here.

If you go that route, @yeeyy you may see a faster return on your investment. If you go this route, I'd suggest picking up some MMCX/2pin adapters from OE on MusicTeck or OE's website for maximum compatibility. Even my old KZ ED16 sound fantastic through the CF01. Really hope iBasso upgrades that model with a LDAC or aptX Adaptive variant in the future, but it's otherwise a fantastic product.

Side benefit: they did survive an unexpected dunk in the bath while I had my Blessing 2 connected. Had to dry out the B2 in silica, but the CF01 just needed a quick wipe and everything was copacetic. Not sure what megabuck TWS I'd feel half as confident doing that with.
 

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