[jessica_fae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomH The 701s would add a degree of freedom to your combinatorial search for enjoyment, if nothing else.

That is more or less what I was thinking. At some point I would love to try a K1000 and OmegaII, but I think for now adding a K601 or K701 might be a bit more sensible and hit a mark between my HD580s and Stax and might give me a nice mix of features.

I'm leaning heavily toward the K601. Unfortunately it is rather hard for me to hear them before buying so I have to go on opinions and instinct. My instinct on this is that the K601/K701 are essentially the same headphone. I know the K701 uses flat-wire in the driver but there does seem to be a huge amount of hype around it. I suspect the K701 goes through a bit extra QC testing and matching of drivers than the K601 which might explain some of the extra refinement in the K701. From the reviews here, it sounds like the differences between the K601 and K701 are smaller than the difference that is experienced over the burn-in period within a model. The 100-300 hour burn-in worries me a bit. If both these cans change that much in the first 300 hours, how can a manufacturer be confident that they will end up properly settled in. That long a burn-in can't be repeatable and predictable. I think I'd rather take such a gamble on a £180 headphone rather than a £300 one.

Unless of course there is someone with a K1000 for sale in the UK or Europe?

 

[sgrossklass]

The K601 seems to be more of an improved K501. Those who've heard both the '601 and '701 seemed to agree that the latter was the better headphone. That being said, keep in mind that these are rather inefficient low-impedance (62 ohm, ~93 dB/mW) cans and will require an amp with low output impedance, high current output and little (particularly high-order harmonic and intermod) distortion with low-impedance loads - an amp that performs well with the 300 ohm Sennheisers may not like these as much.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by smeggy JaZZ, were they your (ply) woodied Lambdas I saw in a picture once with the large metal mesh on the back? I've often looked at that picture wondering how they sounded and if they were Sigma based. If they are yours and if you did the mods, I doff my cap to you. I wish I had a set just like them. Glorious. I'd love to hear more on how you did it and how they sound.

Thanks for your appreciation. Yes, both models are linked in my signature: the black one has Lambda Pro drivers, the wooden one Lambda Signature Pro drivers. You're right, the enclosure design has been inspired by the Sigma, and originally I used the Sigma drivers for a prototype model. Unfortunately one of the drivers got torn apart while trying to remove it, so I had to order Lambda drivers (which are basically the same) for the definitive model.

As to the sound -- actually I succeeded to get exactly what I was after (with Model 1): a soundstage between Sigma and Lambda, also a sonic balance right in the middle between them, thus clearly more powerful bass and less piercing highs than with the Lambda, in short, a nicely balanced, clean sound with great frequency extension and dynamics and an impressive, natural soundstage without the Sigma's bass bloat, recessed midrange and lack of clarity and refinement. Model 2 has been designed with a slightly smaller angle for the drivers for a marginally more direct sound. With the thinner membranes of its Signature drivers it sounds even faster and has slightly higher resolution than Model 1, but also less warmth and lushness.

I really like both, even more so since a modifaction on my SRM-T1 (inner cabling and tube rolling), but meanwhile I have changed allegiance, from electrostatics to dynamics. Which means I prefer both the HD 650 and the K 701 to them (and every other Stax).


Quote:

Originally Posted by jessica_fae I'm leaning heavily toward the K601. Unfortunately it is rather hard for me to hear them before buying so I have to go on opinions and instinct. My instinct on this is that the K601/K701 are essentially the same headphone. I know the K701 uses flat-wire in the driver but there does seem to be a huge amount of hype around it. I suspect the K701 goes through a bit extra QC testing and matching of drivers than the K601 which might explain some of the extra refinement in the K701. From the reviews here, it sounds like the differences between the K601 and K701 are smaller than the difference that is experienced over the burn-in period within a model. The 100-300 hour burn-in worries me a bit. If both these cans change that much in the first 300 hours, how can a manufacturer be confident that they will end up properly settled in? That long a burn-in can't be repeatable and predictable. I think I'd rather take such a gamble on a £180 headphone rather than a £300 one.

You're new to Head-Fi, aren't you?!

No offense meant... But virtually every quality headphone discussed here has been reported to need a decent amount of break-in -- and every single one seems to come out the same, finally. So don't worry, break-in isn't reserved to the K 601/701, all of my recent headphones have shown this behavior -- more or less pronounced.

I've had some interest in the K 601 as well, but a few recent reviews have reported clearly lower refinement and extension, so I think you will fare better with the K 701.
.

 

[jessica_fae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgrossklass The K601 seems to be more of an improved K501. Those who've heard both the '601 and '701 seemed to agree that the latter was the better headphone. That being said, keep in mind that these are rather inefficient low-impedance (62 ohm, ~93 dB/mW) cans and will require an amp with low output impedance, high current output and little (particularly high-order harmonic and intermod) distortion with low-impedance loads - an amp that performs well with the 300 ohm Sennheisers may not like these as much.

Thanks. I thought I read in one of the threads someone commenting that the K701/Gilmore GS1 was a good synergy and another where a K601/Gilmore lite was also sounding great. This might be another reason to go for a K601 since it has a 120ohm impedance where the K701 has a 62ohm impedence. Such guess work.

This is such a gamble when one can't listen before hand. I kind of envy those of you who get to have headphone meets. I have to admit that is one advantage of buying fullrange speaker systems: more dealers where one can spend an afternoon listening and make up one's own mind before purchasing. I know Headroom has a nice return policy, but that doesn't do me much good on this side of the pond. And with 100-300 hour burn-in, one would have to be really serious about testing these phones to squeeze all that burn-in into the 30day return window.

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jessica_fae Thanks. I thought I read in one of the threads someone commenting that the K701/Gilmore GS1 was a good synergy and another where a K601/Gilmore lite was also sounding great. This might be another reason to go for a K601 since it has a 120ohm impedance where the K701 has a 62ohm impedence. Such guess work.

IMO, 120 ohms vs. 62 ohms is not a huge difference. It's more when you get up into 250-300 ohms that you can start saying a headphone is high impedance. Both 62 and 120 ohms are relatively low and need a goodly amount of current to drive well. I've got the K501 (also 120 ohms) and it seems to like plenty of both current and voltage for best sound.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch Both 62 and 120 ohms are relatively low and need a goodly amount of current to drive well.

Moreover, this shouldn't pose a problem for any solid-state amp.
.

 

[jessica_fae]

Quote:

I've had some interest in the K 601 as well, but a few recent reviews have reported clearly lower refinement and extension, so I think you will fare better with the K 701.

Hmmm. I may have to paint the plastic housing a different colour if I do go for a K701. That white is really pants.

I think I'm actually starting to lean more towards a K1000 and driving it with my GoldenTube SE40 (40watt single-ended tube amplifier) / Balanced Audio VK20 preamp. Unfortunately I just found out that it has been discontinued. I'll have to think about it for a week and see what settles out.

 

[Meyvn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jessica_fae Hmmm. I may have to paint the plastic housing a different colour if I do go for a K701. That white is really pants. I think I'm actually starting to lean more towards a K1000 and driving it with my GoldenTube SE40 (40watt single-ended tube amplifier) / Balanced Audio VK20 preamp. Unfortunately I just found out that it has been discontinued. I'll have to think about it for a week and see what settles out.

On the K701, if it's any consolation, there are a few of us out there that actually do not mind/enjoy the white, but that's probably because much of my computer system is either black, white, or silver so they go well. But seriously, the color is much less objectionable in person than it is in pictures, in case you haven't seen a pair. Everyone who's seen mine thinks they look really nice. If you have seen them in person, then oh well. Paint away!

As far as the K1000, don't worry about them being OOP. You can still get plenty of pairs NIB on the net, or you can buy a used pair here. I saw some going for as low as 700 in the FS/FT forum.

 

[jessica_fae]

OK, I just discovered that Stone Audio has a 30day return policy so I could get a K701 on 'trial' essentially. I also found this post by PeeeMeS, and I think NielPeart also commented along similar lines : more often grabbing for the K701 over the K1000.

I did find this review on the K1000 here
Quote:

In particular, the K1000 probably won't appeal to those looking for a headphone with the sophistication of a Stax electrostatic. It is polished and neutral, but it doesn't have the same kind of finesse or the exquisite detailing as the best electrostatics. In particular the treble doesn't have that very special brand of sweetness or sharp precision, though it is more than usually detailed by moving coil standards, and the treble is well integrated and fee of obvious colorations or excess. But the K1000 has something that even electrostatics don't usually have. There is a visceral quality to its sound, almost as though the sound can be reached out and touched. The soundstage has all the qualities that are implicit in the idea of good binaural reproduction, that is realistic perspectives and scale to accompany the good left/right differentiation that all headphones produce as a matter of course. But there is less artifice here. The soundstaging is much more natural than you might expect, and central images don't collapse into a spot in the middle of the head, though it takes a suspension of disbelief to place the soundstage forward of the plane of the ears. Perhaps this is a personal reaction too, or the result of having listened to too many headphones over the years.

Oh I'll go for the K701. Worst case I don't like them, and trade them in on a pair of SR404s or an OmegaII.

 

[arnesto]

Jessica, please post your feedback, because I too was wondering if I should get the 701s or bite the bullet and get the Omega IIs.

Thanks.

 

[Jahn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnesto Jessica, please post your feedback, because I too was wondering if I should get the 701s or bite the bullet and get the Omega IIs. Thanks.

FYI, on the Omega II off a Blue Hawaii KGSS, the cans had BASS and were a bit dark, which is counter to the usual "electrostatics are bright and too fast in the bass" comment. The K701 on the other hand is rumored to have a far less degree of bass, but I won't say that with conviction until I hear them at the NYC meet coming up.

 

[spritzer]

If you want really good bass out of a headphone go for the Omega II's but it won't be cheap. They are true power hogs and you have to experiment a bit with the metal bands to get the right pressure on the ears (to tight=deep, but anemic bass and too loose=flabby uncontrolled bass) but when you work that out they put every headphone I've heard to shame

 

[robm321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jessica_fae OK, I just discovered that Stone Audio has a 30day return policy so I could get a K701 on 'trial' essentially. I also found this post by PeeeMeS, and I think NielPeart also commented along similar lines : more often grabbing for the K701 over the K1000. I did find this review on the K1000 here Oh I'll go for the K701. Worst case I don't like them, and trade them in on a pair of SR404s or an OmegaII.

I would make the road trip and listen for yourself. If you are only going to buy one headphone, then I wouldn't get the K1000. It's more of an earspeaker. I myself, find it better than any headphone I've heard, but I really don't think it's fair because the soundstage actually reaches outside of the head, so it's almost halfway between headphones and speakers.

Also, people are just getting their brand new 701's - so in 2-3 months I wonder if they won't be into something else, while the K1000's have been around for a long time and obviously the new stuff gets the most listening.

The fact that he still reaches for the K1000 while having a brand new pair of 701's is definately saying something.

I use and RS-1, Senn 600 (I prefer over 650), and the K1000 - I listen to the RS-1 the most - why - because the K1000 is such a magical experience that I don't put them on unless I want to do some serious listening, because I get lost and addicted, and enter another world.

I remember I used to like the RS-1 and Senn 600 - thinking any improvement would be minor, but the K1000's made all other phones a moot point. It was the only phone that made me think - I don't need anything else. It's all here. I never read that anywhere - in fact I didn't hear much about the K1000's until after I bought them. Which brings me to my point...

Listen for yourself, otherwise you'll be guessing based on people's posts and reviews with the wrong amps (sorry but enjoy the sound blew this interview), there are other ones more accurate, preferences, and loyalties, etc. - people make that mistake all the time and then we get these post that say got these phones and very dissapointed.

 

[jessica_fae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnesto Jessica, please post your feedback, because I too was wondering if I should get the 701s or bite the bullet and get the Omega IIs.

Will do. I'm going to order the K701 after I get back from holiday in a week so I can make the most of my 30day return window. I'm hoping I like them and won't have to return them, but I want to keep that option as open as possible. I'm certain at some point, that I will own some Omega IIs, but I'm OK letting that sit for a bit. One good thing about Stax is that their product line is really quite stable so I doubt the OmegaII will disappear anytime soon.

 

[jessica_fae]

Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321 I would make the road trip and listen for yourself. If you are only going to buy one headphone, then I wouldn't get the K1000. It's more of an earspeaker. ... but the K1000's made all other phones a moot point. It was the only phone that made me think - I don't need anything else. It's all here. I never read that anywhere - in fact I didn't hear much about the K1000's until after I bought them. Which brings me to my point... Listen for yourself, otherwise you'll be guessing based on people's posts and reviews with the wrong amps (sorry but enjoy the sound blew this interview), there are other ones more accurate, preferences, and loyalties, etc. - people make that mistake all the time and then we get these post that say got these phones and very dissapointed.

Hi Rob
I'm a bit confused. I thought you were suggesting I might really enjoy a K1000 in an earlier post. I'm not planning on selling anything I own, so I still plan on using my Stax Lamdbas, HD580s and all my other cans. I'm just looking for an addition to the stable that will enhance my headphone enjoyment. Your suggestion of a K1000 has definitely struck a chord in me, and I'm not completely sure the K701 is the better option. The 30day return policy would give me enough time to formulate an opinion on the K701 first hand. I'm not certain that an afternoon audition will give me enough time to make a good opinion.

I remember when I first got my HD580s. I was really amazed by them and didn't listen to my Stax for weeks. They were so much more full sounding, and the bass was stronger and they were so much more energetic and the high frequencies sounded so similar. Here it was, I thought I had found nirvana. All the best qualities of the Stax, plus better bass and more drive and bounce. I may have even wax poetic on them in some news group. Then I went back to my Stax one night out of curiosity and I was blown away by all the things that were missing from the HD580 presentation. The HD580 bass was fuller, but so much subtelty was gone. And the high frequencies that I thought were the same as the stax, well now they sounded like mid-fi phones. It seems the only way to appreciate something is to live without it and then come back to it. The same thing happens in the reverse direction if I live without the HD580s and then 'rediscover' them again, but it only lasts for about an hour. It's actually a rather funny phenomenon. This 'new' factor has happened with every headphone I've ever gotten (even the KCS75s sound amazing on first listen after not listening to them for ages). But after the honeymoon is over and the phones have lost their glamour, it is qualities of the Stax that I long for and go back to. That's why I still have them and love them after 20 years. They aren't perfect but what they do well, they do so well. The things they miss that the other phone have is so small that I prefer to live with them. I keep the other around mainly as counter point and for special duties (HD580 for movies, SR60 for back garden listening, KCS75 for train journeys, HD280 for work).

If Stone Audio can get a K1000 (or might have one hiding in the back room), I would much prefer to spend £550 on a new K1000 than £300 on a K701. But since the K1000 has been discontinued, I'm not expecting them to be able to get one. I'll give them a call and talk with them about all this and see what they have to say. They are a 5-6 hour drive away so I'd be looking at more of a long weekend to do an audition with them. There is a nice high-end stereo store in Cambridge which specializes in Meridian, Naim, and Linn. He is very nice and might be able to get some loaner AKGs into his store. He seems to be very well connected with the high-end audio circles so he might be able to pull a few strings and track down some remaining K1000 stock. I'll give him a call too and see if he might be able to help. For all I know he might even have a pair in his back room or have a friend with a pair who might be able to bring them into the store for an afternoon to let me listen to them.

I think the best thing this discussion has done is steer me away from the K601; not because there is anything wrong with them, but because they will more likely disappoint me. If it wasn't for comments from the likes of PeeMes and NielPeart in other threads, I'd suspect that the K701 would also disappoint me. I'm certain the K701 is more refined than the K601, but that doesn't mean it is in the same category of refinement as the Stax. The HD580s were supposed to be Stax beaters in their day and I know better now (for my preferences that is). I doubt that the K1000 would disappoint me though, and I know that the Omega IIs wouldn't disappoint me. I also suspect that both the K601 and K701 would be more enjoyable than the HD580s though. The interesting possibility is how would the K701 compare to my Lamdbas. And it is that interesting question that might be worth the £300 and 6 months of time.

I don't let other people sway my opinion once I have listened and have personal experience, but until that point I'm very open to what people have to say to help me narrow my choices down. The AKG line up is definitely a curiosity for me and an itch I'd like to scratch. The K1000 (like the Stax Omega II) has always been a headphone that I've wanted to live with for awhile. No money spent yet or headphones ordered. Maybe I'll get lucky and someone will be able to track down a K1000 somewhere in England and I can audition a K601, K701, and K1000 all at the same time.

-Jessica