[HFat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ahriman4891 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The hiss is immediately obvious. Whether you concentrate on the hiss or on the music is another matter, but it's strange that anyone cannot hear it, esp. on a supposedly uber-revealing system.

A couple of points: first, revealing, pleasing and expensive do not necessarily go hand in hand so maybe that system isn't revealing at all (hell, the DAC could be doing some DSP to remove noise). If you're familiar with that equipement, you would know obviously so please excuse my assuption that you aren't.
Second, the most critical part of the chain is your ears and your mind, not your gear. Your ears would have to be very badly damaged to be unable to pick up that hiss but I can see how someone's mind would "choose" not to pick it up.

EDIT: foobar could have some DSP enabled and there could possibly be a problem with the 24->16 process depending on the resolution that DAC accepts. My soundcard will only accept 24 bits after special drivers have been installed for example.

 

[Bob Track]

Never thought hiss from an analog source would issue such debate,
Yes there is hiss to be heard on our transfers and the only people that have a problem with it is on this forum and I can understand why, because of headphones are very revealing of the source.
You should really visit our website at www.highdeftapetransfers.com and read the About Us page also our mastering equipment we use and also our Faq's page.
I'm not going to debate what people "hear" it all relative, but the thing that gets me with "some" audiophiles is that they complain about hiss and then you put on a 40 year old record and all the extraneous noise doesn't bother them, go figure??
I think after you read some info on our site, and find out the source of our recordings, I think a little hiss is justifiable.
Thanks for the interest
Bob
HDTT

 

[slwiser]

I just purchased two sets of tracks today.

Rachmaninoff Sym#2 (4 tracks) and Dvorak Violin Concerto (3 tracks)

This was seven tracks in total downloaded in short order and I am now listening to them in glorious 96/24....

 

[Graphicism]

Hi Bob,

I think the debate is more over the fact some people can here, and some people claim they cannot, rather than should/shouldn't it be there. These are well mastered transfers and no doubt an improvement over there original vinyl state.

Head-Fiers like Riboge and slwiser who claim they cannot here it clearly have a missing link in their otherwise wonderful systems. I would say they have a tolerance for it, yet even then they would admit to hearing it, stating it simply isn't an issue for them would be more fitting.

 

[slwiser]

I have to say that at my listening levels, no more than 85 dB normally, I do not hear it. As I have said it may be my ears that are at fault. I have measured my hearing and it is good between 35 hz and 14 khz. Outside of that range it does seem to drop off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graphicism /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi Bob, I think the debate is more over the fact some people can here, and some people claim they cannot, rather than should/shouldn't it be there. These are well mastered transfers and no doubt an improvement over there original vinyl state. Head-Fiers like Riboge and slwiser who claim they cannot here it clearly have a missing link in their otherwise wonderful systems. I would say they have a tolerance for it, yet even then they would admit to hearing it, stating it simply isn't an issue for them would be more fitting.

 

[Bob Track]

I think there is a point where you have to say to yourself is to listen to the music!!
My point about vinyl being noisy is where I'm going with this it was the standard in reproduction for a long time, and a lot of audiophiles believe it is still and probably a lot on this forum also, and it is without a doubt the noisiest of music carrying methods in music and you don't hear much griping.
The other thing i think that people on this forum forget is HDTT was born out of the idea to bring otherwise forgotten music is still available and I believe is recorded in a way audiophiles can appreciat it.
"I would say they have a tolerance for it, yet even then they would admit to hearing it, stating it simply isn't an issue for them would be more fitting."
I think the way audiophiles "hear' there music is there choice.
I'm sure everyone in this forum has been to a show or a gathering where a lot of audiophiles gather and you will come out with 50 opinions, believe me i've heard opinions that were really off the wall and i've seen shouting matches, so you might be wrong he might be wrong I might even be wrong bottom line just sit back and enjoy the music!!
Bob

 

[Graphicism]

Oh I agree totally that we each have our own interpretation of the music we listen too. I am not one of those that believes in Vinyl, personally I think they are clutching on to the past, I don't know what vinyl provides over digital and probably never will.

IMO listening to music with a lot of noise is like listening to music with the dishwasher on, there is always a constant hum that you just can't tune out.

Slightly off topic: As of recently I have heard some classical music that was perfect and no noise or hiss what-so-ever as it was recorded correctly in the first place, my main bout is to why even modern day classical music cannot replicate this noise free environment.

 

[Riboge]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graphicism /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think the debate is more over the fact some people can here, and some people claim they cannot.

Notice that those he differs from merely "claim" they don't hear, while his report of hearing is not just a claim.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graphicism /img/forum/go_quote.gif Head-Fiers like Riboge and slwiser ... a missing link ... I would say they have a tolerance for it, yet even then they would admit to hearing it, stating it simply isn't an issue for them would be more fitting.

It would be fitting for your convenience only. I DO NOT HEAR IT! Your attitude, however, comes thru loud and clear. There is a difference here that needs to be explained not explained away.

 

[Nandro]

I listened to all the samples and I clearly hear the hiss noise, and this is on both my Jolida, and my X-cans, as well as with all 3 different pairs of cans that I have and 2 different dac's. I cant see how it isn't there for others as its not just a slight hiss, it's very loud, enough so that if it was there on my amp when no music was playing I would believe my equiptment was faulty.

 

[LFF]

I think Bob has some good points. Tape hiss is a good thing. There should always at least a small level of tape hiss when transferring from tapes. If there is no tape hiss - then something is wrong. If there is too much - then something is wrong. I have remastered a few things and the hiss always helps - I see it as a guiding point.

However, vinyl will not always be noisy. When transfered properly (ie, good record source, in mint condition, with good calibrated needle and turntable, etc) vinyl will always sound superior to other formats.

BLASPHEMY! No. Just ask the headfiers who have heard my transfers. Warm, true audiophile sound. No brickwall mastering and no, I do not use No-Noise. So why do some tapes sound bad? Well, tapes are meant to sound good. That is why artists record to tape. The problem with tape comes with the pre-recorded reels of yesteryears gone by. Often they were recorded at a faster speed (think bad 80's cassettes). When transferred properly using good equipment, a nice mint reel will sound very nice on speakers and even on headphones. Case in point - The Beatles released their albums on Ampex tape reels. I have mint transfers of these and the sound is indeed good and a hell of a lot better than the retail CDs but it in no way compares to a good high quality vinyl transfer.

Anyway, I know I am going on and on. My point is, prerecorded tapes had their limits and transferring them is no easy task. From the sample I just heard, it seems Bob and his crew have done a FANTASTIC job transferring these tapes. I have yet to listen to all the samples. And yes - if your going to be listening to transfers on headphones, you are bound to hear more of the imperfections from the source. My suggestion would be to play it on speakers and enjoy the music.

I'll post after I listen to the samples critically so I can give a better opinion.

 

[Riboge]

Well, I have resolved the issue at least as regards me...the hard way. I retested my hearing and it has declined since I last tested it and is significantly down past 12kHz and more at 14kHz, so no wonder I don't hear the hiss. I guess I have been listening too much or loud and/or age is catching up with me.

The one good thing is I can now be sure that for me hiss is not a bad thing.

 

[slwiser]

I posted my hearing results in a thread where I compared the A900LTD, F900LTD, W5000 and F5000. The chart is revealing.

It looks bad for me also.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riboge /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, I have resolved the issue at least as regards me...the hard way. I retested my hearing and it has declined since I last tested it and is significantly down past 12kHz and more at 14kHz, so no wonder I don't hear the hiss. I guess I have been listening too much or loud and/or age is catching up with me. The one good thing is I can now be sure that for me hiss is not a bad thing.

 

[ken36]

Good to find Hi-rez, but there seems to be lots of objections

 

[Riboge]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riboge /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, I have resolved the issue at least as regards me...the hard way. I retested my hearing and it has declined since I last tested it and is significantly down past 12kHz and more at 14kHz, so no wonder I don't hear the hiss. I guess I have been listening too much or loud and/or age is catching up with me. The one good thing is I can now be sure that for me hiss is not a bad thing.

On the other hand, to correct myself a bit: I looked at the Fletcher-Munson curves provided on the testing site and noted that the equal perceived volume curve I got on testing conforms fairly closely to the normal curve for around the volume level I questimate I did the testing at up to 12kHz. At 16khz it was way down, or to put it the other way, it took a lot louder tone to approach equality of perceived loudness of the 1kHz reference tone. The F-M chart isn't readable that high. The test I used (I think slwiser, also) is at http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/hearing.html

 

[Graphicism]

You're not going to get an accurate reading from the computer, too many problems come into play, such as your sound card, how do you know it's correctly rendering the Khz etc? In a similar thread some time ago this test was posted and people with really crappy sound cards could hear everything, even Khz that are supposed to be inaudible to the human ear.