from sr225s to HD650?
Dec 27, 2006 at 1:12 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 29

makasin

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Is this a good upgrade?
I currently dont have an amazing source but will be getting a much better one (check the sig). Considering the current setup I have and the setup I will be getting, is the HD650 a good upgrade? I want something warmer, and something that has a better more laid back soundstage. As much as I enjoy getting my ears sodomized with the rockin 225s' I would like to have an alternative. Give me some pros and cons, preferably for both setups (Creek vs SOHA). I am concerned that the Creek wont be strong enough to drive the HD's. I am still waiting for all the parts for my SOHA (ridiculous, I ordered it all 2 weeks ago).
 
Dec 27, 2006 at 1:28 AM Post #2 of 29

tomb

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You probably already know my answer,
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, but here goes:

The Grado's are great - especially those SR225's. However, the HD650's are a perfect match for that SOHA you're building. They meet your request exactly and are in a different league of quality construction, IMHO. They will pair perfectly with the SOHA's high gain, while the SR225's may give you problems.

One suggestion, though, considering your inventory is limited to Grado's right now, you might go for the $125 Amazon.com special on the HD580's. My guess is that the sound and comfort will be so different - from the Grado's in your case - that the difference between HD650 and HD580 is negligible. The price difference is not negligible - you will pay close to $300 or more for 650's.

Better to go for 90% of the same thing at a much reduced price. Eminently upgradeable, you can get HD600's grilles and different cables later on for 100% of the HD600 sound and probably 95% of the 650's.
 
Dec 27, 2006 at 1:44 AM Post #3 of 29

makasin

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well this is going to be a late xmas present because I couldnt decide what I wanted in time so I have a budget of 300 and id like to use it haha.
I am concerned that it will be less detailed than the sr225s. Is that the case?
I know its kinda in a different league so probably not, but I hear people say they have "recessed treble." I really like the sound of my 225s, and I used to have a pair of HD570s and they were pretty decent too, but not very strong in the lower end (maybe not the case, I was too young to know or have enough money for an amP)
 
Dec 27, 2006 at 2:02 AM Post #4 of 29

tomb

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Nothing is as immediately and forwardly detailed as a Grado. That said, a Grado can be unlistenable with certain amplifiers and music. At the same time, there are very few phones that will give you the bass and the presence of the Senn's - especially the 580/600/650 series.

Now that you're DIY'ing - that's what's so great. You can tune the amp for a frequency synthesis with the Senn's that's almost as good as Grado's - but get superior low end and soundstage. A brilliant tube combined with perhaps an AD8620 or other hot opamp may sound fantastic with the Senn's.

On the other hand, the Grado's may do better with a very bassy tube and a mellow opamp such as the OPA2132/4. You'll have to have those output resistors in for the Grado's, though, whereas you can jumper them out with the Senn's.

Lots of possibilities.
 
Dec 27, 2006 at 2:06 AM Post #5 of 29

DevilDog

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If you liked the HD570s, you'll love the HD650s. If you've got the $ I'd say go for the 650s over the 580s. They're just a much nicer sound all around. I wouldn't say the 225s are more detailed, they're brighter, but you'll definitely hear things with the 650s you never would with the 225s, like extended bass. You won't miss much in the treble area. I suppose I'm alone in that I don't really think of the 650s as having recessed treble. It's very clear and black up there and it's not at all recessed to me.
But be warned, these two cans are about as far apart as you can get. The 650s aren't that good with rock or metal, but good for just about everything else. Basically, where the 225s are lacking the 650s excel and vice versa.
But, no, the 225s aren't more detailed.
 
Dec 27, 2006 at 2:07 AM Post #6 of 29

makasin

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i got the OPA2134. Is that one gonna be too mellow for the HD650 to sound good in the highs?
Yeah I think im pretty sure I want to get the 650s not that I realize that i can find it for 300. I like how you can get all senns for much lower than retail price. Not the case with Grados unfortunately
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.

Ya I am planning on probably keeping both cans but if I find the 650 to be much better than ill just ditch that and the creek to un-debt myself haha.
evil_smiley.gif
 
Dec 27, 2006 at 2:08 AM Post #7 of 29

Davesrose

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to add another possibility: you might want to try out the HD595. It's more forgiving then the HD650, and if you're coming from Grado, it won't sound as "dark". IMHO, the 650 isn't dark.....it just has a soundstage and smooth detail in its mids so that it sounds speakerlike (high treble actually isn't rolled off, but is extended). The 595 has as much bass as the HD580/600, but adds brightness and detail. It's most like the 225 without being the 225. More neutral tonality with a soundstage that makes it seem like you're in a recording studio (the HD650's soundstage sounds more auditorium like).
 
Dec 27, 2006 at 2:16 AM Post #8 of 29

makasin

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Well I dont want something that sounds like grado, I want something different to have an alternative. I think the 650 will be good. I am going to be listening to primarily electronica, rock/metal, acoustic, rap, etc. Basically my tastes are quite eclectic. However, I definately am more focused on the bassy/percussion elements of music so I am pretty sure I want something "darker" than my 225s.
 
Dec 27, 2006 at 2:26 AM Post #9 of 29

duff138

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Davesrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif
to add another possibility: you might want to try out the HD595. It's more forgiving then the HD650, and if you're coming from Grado, it won't sound as "dark". IMHO, the 650 isn't dark.....it just has a soundstage and smooth detail in its mids so that it sounds speakerlike (high treble actually isn't rolled off, but is extended). The 595 has as much bass as the HD580/600, but adds brightness and detail. It's most like the 225 without being the 225. More neutral tonality with a soundstage that makes it seem like you're in a recording studio (the HD650's soundstage sounds more auditorium like).



This is very helpful. I've been considering the opposite lately. A move from Senn. 650 to Grados 225. I have the Grados sr-80 now, and lately when I listen with them and my 650 all the Rock and Metal I listen to seems to benefit from the highs with the Grados. With the Senn, 650 there's a dullnes to the music. The cool thing is my brother-in law has the 595's. I'll have to borrow those from him. They sound like exactly what I'm looking for right now.
 
Dec 27, 2006 at 2:26 AM Post #10 of 29

Davesrose

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OK, especially for electronica, you might like the HD650 more
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Especially trip hop, Massive Attack. Just wait until you hear them through the HD650!!
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Dec 27, 2006 at 2:31 AM Post #11 of 29

Davesrose

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Quote:

Originally Posted by duff138 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
This is very helpful. I've been considering the opposite lately. A move from Senn. 650 to Grados 225. I have the Grados sr-80 now, and lately when I listen with them and my 650 all the Rock and Metal I listen to seems to benefit from the highs with the Grados. With the Senn, 650 there's a dullnes to the music. The cool thing is my brother-in law has the 595's. I'll have to borrow those from him. They sound like exactly what I'm looking for right now.


Yeah, definitely try out the HD595. It's a great headphone, that sometimes gets under appreciated here! Even as I'm getting expensive equipment now, it's scaling up as well as the HD650 or SR325i. IMO, it can handle a lot more music genres then either the HD600/650 or SR225/325.
 
Dec 27, 2006 at 2:33 AM Post #12 of 29

makasin

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sweet, yeah I listen to a lot of Vitalic, BUckethead, Nine Inch Nails, goa stuff like shpongle and infected mushrooms and things like that. I think the HD650s will be well suited. Do you think my crrent setup is good enough to do it some justice? I know itll be better with the SOHA and the ALIEN but what is your opinion on my current situation?
 
Dec 27, 2006 at 2:38 AM Post #13 of 29

tomb

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Makasin,
Probably 3/4 of the sound quality is dictated by the tube, but yes - the OPA2134 will be a little laid back. The SOHA designers chose it because it's very stable, can run in unity gain, and gives a decent amount of current (40-50ma). There are many other opamps that can add different "flavors" to the amp, but the tube will make the biggest difference. Reportedly, the JJ 12AU7 is the bass king in the SOHA, while the GE 5963 may be the most dynamic. Keep in mind that other reviews on 12AU7 tubes are not meaningful for the SOHA. Many of the audio-premium favorites like the clear-tops and black plates don't perform well in the SOHA. The 5963 probably has the most potential since it's design plate voltage is only 70V, which is dead-on with the SOHA design. That same characteristic makes it unsuitable for most 12AU7 amps - it can't handle their higher voltage. There are reviews for SOHA tubes on Headwize and here - search for it.

Strictly speaking, you will be better off with the SOHA if you have at least one set of high-impedance headphones (300 ohms). With respect to Davesrose, the HD595 (50 ohms) is not in that category.

P.S. I don't know much about the Creek except that it appears to be a fairly typical opamp-buffer amp. However, the 3x9V is encouraging. High impedance = more voltage (300 ohms), whereas low impedance = more current (32 ohms).
 
Dec 27, 2006 at 2:45 AM Post #14 of 29

Davesrose

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Quote:

Originally Posted by makasin /img/forum/go_quote.gif
sweet, yeah I listen to a lot of Vitalic, BUckethead, Nine Inch Nails, goa stuff like shpongle and infected mushrooms and things like that. I think the HD650s will be well suited. Do you think my crrent setup is good enough to do it some justice? I know itll be better with the SOHA and the ALIEN but what is your opinion on my current situation?


I haven't listened to your current setup, but it doesn't look like anything that would make the HD650 muddy. One good thing about the HD650 is that on a bad setup, it's just going to sound too laid back....won't sound shrill like a Grado on a bad system sounds. Do you also have your Creek amp plugged into the wall (instead of batteries)? I would think that having it plugged in would give the HD650 some better speed and detail (better gain). General rule of thumb for high impedance headphones like the HD650 is that a high gain amp is best.
 
Dec 27, 2006 at 9:41 PM Post #15 of 29

makasin

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sweet, yeah I listen to a lot of Vitalic, BUckethead, Nine Inch Nails, goa stuff like shpongle and infected mushrooms and things like that. I think the HD650s will be well suited. Do you think my crrent setup is good enough to do it some justice? I know itll be better with the SOHA and the ALIEN but what is your opinion on my current situation?
 

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