[cskippy]

Quick comparison of measurements between Meze 99 Classic, TH-X00 Mahogany stock, and TH-X00 Purpleheart with ZMF Ori pads (koover's pair)

 

[koover]

Interesting. I don't remember if this is before or after the driver dampening on the PH's.
That Meze bass is pretty intense based off these graphs. Thanx

 

[gLer]

Hey guys. Lots of talk of mods and such. I have a Lawton Level 1 driver only mod on the way. Does anyone know if the Dekoni rings will fit into Alpha pads? I’m not switching from Alpha - they are just so sweet - so if the Dekoni rings don’t fit, no biggie. I tried making my own cutout of a half ring with stiff cardboard and to be honest couldn’t hear any difference in sound whatsoever.

 

[koover]

Quick comparison of measurements between Meze 99 Classic, TH-X00 Mahogany stock, and TH-X00 Purpleheart with ZMF Ori pads (koover's pair)

Ok bro, out of the 3, do you agree the PH's are the best sounding based off the graph? It looks that way to me. I still can't get over how bass heavy the Meze is. I GOT to go to the ear doctor because based off my description versus the graphs, I'm not close. My ears tell me different, thus the reason for an emergency doctor appointment.

I really like the Meze A LOT and it's deep bass. It must be my ears because they are tight and fast to these old man ears.
You have a way of sharing your opinion non verbally based off graphs (very smart) but can you state your thoughts based off this graph? I also learn a lot when I see graphs and what they "truly" mean. I get it completely, but the 3 of these are just so dramatic in what they show.

 

[jmills8]

Funny cause I have used the meze and in no way is it bass heavy.

 

[gLer]

Funny cause I have used the meze and in no way is it bass heavy.

I agree. My brother had a pair of Meze and I found their bass just acceptable compared to the P7 (which I had at the time). Far more comfy though. The Fostex I own now has much bigger and much better bass than the P7 even, and is more comfy than both the Meze and P7. Of course YMMV.

 

[koover]

I agree. My brother had a pair of Meze a

Funny cause I have used the meze and in no way is it bass heavy.

nd I found their bass just acceptable compared to the P7 (which I had at the time). Far more comfy though. The Fostex I own now has much bigger and much better bass than the P7 even, and is more comfy than both the Meze and P7. Of course YMMV.

Exactly. When I listen to my pair, they sound excellent. They do shine in the bass but they're not bass heavy. They most certainly are tight and fast to me. It's just when you look at the graphs, that tells a different story.
I may be wrong, but I believe that's my pair that's up on the graph. Maybe cskippy can set me straight

 

[orderingrabbits]

The X00 Ebonies are just amazing headphones... if it weren't for the cable. Taught me that a headphone could have ear shaking bass without being muddy garbage. I thought I'd have to heavily EQ the lower mids/upper bass but surprisingly that area was just fine. The treble was a bit hot for my tastes but otherwise they were spot on. Vocal texture and such were all there. However, to my ears, they are nowhere near neutral - the bass is boosted by a lot (subjectively I think around ~7dB), which is not necessarily a bad thing at all. I'm not a basshead, but I enjoy the Ebonies a lot - again, minus the cable.

 

[HungryPanda]

just proves ears hear differently from graphs.......

 

[orderingrabbits]

just proves ears hear differently from graphs.......

Everyone's ears are different - especially from the rubbery ones on measurement heads. Although they're pretty damn good for what they are.

 

[Mark Up]

There may be an issue with the measurements. I own the EMU Teak since I like that it's less V shaped than the big three MassDrop Fostex (it's very close to the Ebony sound, with a bit less sub bass extension and the elevated part of its treble is centered higher than the Ebony, but it's still got all the subs I need, and while warmer, like all of these & the Denons before them, they can be a bit much on bright / sibilant tracks). I also have the Sony MDR-Z7 which has warmer treble (a bit less than the Senn HD650) a lot more low and middle mids, and great sub bass, but just a bit less than the EMU / Fostex / Denon family.

For portable I've got the Sony MDR-1A (with Audio Technica MSR7 pads, a game changer in comfort, spaciousness and improved sound for those). It's response is like a more in your face (less distant) Emu Teak. I also have the Bose QC35, that have terrible boxy sound passive but with NR on (wired or wireless) they resemble the MDR-1A (I had put Dekoni pads made for the Bose on them and they sound the same with them, they are just a bit more spacious, and cushioned). I have also tested the original Meze 99 Classic and the Meze 99 Neo. The Neo has better pads, but I put MSR7 pads on them and they helped too.

Now, of all of the above, the Meze 99 Classic has by far the least bass. It does not rise into the subs, it actually gently rolls off about 50 hz, and drops fast at 30 hz. By 20 hz it's really rolled off, I mean, Sennheiser HD650 territory. I liken them to the HD650, with a bit less width / depth (sounding closed) and a bit more treble. The Meze family treble is so remarkable. The best I've ever heard. I'm sensitive to treble and it doesn't bother me, yet it's not dull, rolled off, or even "warm" up there. It's bright and clear but they seem to be able to iron out every possible bad peak without losing its detail, like no other manufacturer has yet.

The Meze 99 Neo has larger, super comfortable pads. Its headband may be a bit better too. Its sound is similar to the Classic, just a touch warmer in the highs, and the sub bass is actually increased. Tyll's InnerFidelity measurements actually show the Neo having less bass than the Classic but I heard the opposite. It also shows the subs rolling off higher than they do to my ears on the Neo, it shows them rolling off as I remember on the Classic in an HD650 type way (not as steep, they still had more bass overall than the HD650) but there are a few things to consider, and Tyll noticed this in his review of those headphones also.

They are very susceptible to positioning and seal in how it affects bass. There is another phenomena I notice on EVERY headphone, that was worse with the Meze line. Head position. Put on any headphones, over-ear especially. Look down at the floor (if they're heavy, hold them so they don't fall off). Now go to looking straight ahead. The sound is less warm, and brighter. Look up 45 degrees, then straight up, even brighter still. The ear canal physically lets less sound through dulling it when you look down, due to simple mechanics of our physiology. This will change they way you will listen to headphones forever, I am sure.

So I put another pair of Audio Technica MSR7 black pads I have on the Neo. Perfect fit. Equally thick but a touch more firm and squared so they will make the cans have a bit more clamp on the sides. The ear has increased space, the sound is more spacious, and the treble detail remains while its stereo detail is improved. The sub bass is just as great. The midrange - low mids, where the Classic was flat and natural had issues with muddiness and buildup in the Neo. In voicing them to get a warmer sound, which is good, that might have caused it. It completely cleans up with the MSR7 pads. They are next level with those.

The Neo, with the improved bass that defies the graphs on Tyll's page (that I find very accurate usually) still has less bass than the Foster / Denon / EMU family of cans, less sub bass extension too. Not much less, it's still admirable. Those who want the HD650 sound with a touch more treble, similar spaciousness, the same great mids but a good deal more low sub bass and general bass warmth, in a closed can, need to try the Meze 99 Neo, with the MSR7 Pads. If you've got a big head, tuck the headband up & over the two outer metal hoops to hold it open. Most won't have this issue, if they've got small or normal heads.

I may buy these after loving them in the test, put those pads on, and use a special kind of bolt screwdriver (not too expensive if I am getting them on line, just a few dollars) to remove the metal clasps holding the adjustable band from the hoops and just have the hoops sit on my head. They're flat so they won't poke and the headphones are so light (even lighter without those parts attached) that it won't be a problem for me. I'll need to do that because with the MSR7 pads my head just wasn't comfortable, but their sound was so amazing with them. Sorry for the super long post. I hope that some may find this information useful.

 

[koover]

There may be an issue with the measurements. I own the EMU Teak since I like that it's less V shaped than the big three MassDrop Fostex (it's very close to the Ebony sound, with a bit less sub bass extension and the elevated part of its treble is centered higher than the Ebony, but it's still got all the subs I need, and while warmer, like all of these & the Denons before them, they can be a bit much on bright / sibilant tracks). I also have the Sony MDR-Z7 which has warmer treble (a bit less than the Senn HD650) a lot more low and middle mids, and great sub bass, but just a bit less than the EMU / Fostex / Denon family.

For portable I've got the Sony MDR-1A (with Audio Technica MSR7 pads, a game changer in comfort, spaciousness and improved sound for those). It's response is like a more in your face (less distant) Emu Teak. I also have the Bose QC35, that have terrible boxy sound passive but with NR on (wired or wireless) they resemble the MDR-1A (I had put Dekoni pads made for the Bose on them and they sound the same with them, they are just a bit more spacious, and cushioned). I have also tested the original Meze 99 Classic and the Meze 99 Neo. The Neo has better pads, but I put MSR7 pads on them and they helped too.

Now, of all of the above, the Meze 99 Classic has by far the least bass. It does not rise into the subs, it actually gently rolls off about 50 hz, and drops fast at 30 hz. By 20 hz it's really rolled off, I mean, Sennheiser HD650 territory. I liken them to the HD650, with a bit less width / depth (sounding closed) and a bit more treble. The Meze family treble is so remarkable. The best I've ever heard. I'm sensitive to treble and it doesn't bother me, yet it's not dull, rolled off, or even "warm" up there. It's bright and clear but they seem to be able to iron out every possible bad peak without losing its detail, like no other manufacturer has yet.

The Meze 99 Neo has larger, super comfortable pads. Its headband may be a bit better too. Its sound is similar to the Classic, just a touch warmer in the highs, and the sub bass is actually increased. Tyll's InnerFidelity measurements actually show the Neo having less bass than the Classic but I heard the opposite. It also shows the subs rolling off higher than they do to my ears on the Neo, it shows them rolling off as I remember on the Classic in an HD650 type way (not as steep, they still had more bass overall than the HD650) but there are a few things to consider, and Tyll noticed this in his review of those headphones also.

They are very susceptible to positioning and seal in how it affects bass. There is another phenomena I notice on EVERY headphone, that was worse with the Meze line. Head position. Put on any headphones, over-ear especially. Look down at the floor (if they're heavy, hold them so they don't fall off). Now go to looking straight ahead. The sound is less warm, and brighter. Look up 45 degrees, then straight up, even brighter still. The ear canal physically lets less sound through dulling it when you look down, due to simple mechanics of our physiology. This will change they way you will listen to headphones forever, I am sure.

So I put another pair of Audio Technica MSR7 black pads I have on the Neo. Perfect fit. Equally thick but a touch more firm and squared so they will make the cans have a bit more clamp on the sides. The ear has increased space, the sound is more spacious, and the treble detail remains while its stereo detail is improved. The sub bass is just as great. The midrange - low mids, where the Classic was flat and natural had issues with muddiness and buildup in the Neo. In voicing them to get a warmer sound, which is good, that might have caused it. It completely cleans up with the MSR7 pads. They are next level with those.

The Neo, with the improved bass that defies the graphs on Tyll's page (that I find very accurate usually) still has less bass than the Foster / Denon / EMU family of cans, less sub bass extension too. Not much less, it's still admirable. Those who want the HD650 sound with a touch more treble, similar spaciousness, the same great mids but a good deal more low sub bass and general bass warmth, in a closed can, need to try the Meze 99 Neo, with the MSR7 Pads. If you've got a big head, tuck the headband up & over the two outer metal hoops to hold it open. Most won't have this issue, if they've got small or normal heads.

I may buy these after loving them in the test, put those pads on, and use a special kind of bolt screwdriver (not too expensive if I am getting them on line, just a few dollars) to remove the metal clasps holding the adjustable band from the hoops and just have the hoops sit on my head. They're flat so they won't poke and the headphones are so light (even lighter without those parts attached) that it won't be a problem for me. I'll need to do that because with the MSR7 pads my head just wasn't comfortable, but their sound was so amazing with them. Sorry for the super long post. I hope that some may find this information useful.

Really good post but I have to respectfully disagree with your take on the 99 classic bass. Mind you, this is merely my opinion and no ones wrong so please take no offense.
The bass is less then a HD 650 or in the same roll off territory? It almost seems like you had or listened to a defective set because there’s just no way the 99 classics rolls off in the 650 territory or is on the same level as the 99 classics bass wise. If this is based off a graph, that measurement unit has some serious issues.
I wholehearted believe dependent on source, you’re going to get a different SS. My classics running through Jot or a Lyr2 (tube dependent) and Mimby, the bass and sub bass actually approach the Ph’s and TH 900 bass/sub bass levels. That’s based off my ears and no graph is needed. Granted the TH900 goes insanely deep (so do the modded PH’s) and is so clean/fast and tight, there’s really no comparison.
There’s nothing wrong with the graphs cskippy used because I was right with him when he took the measurements. Plus just by my ears, i can easily tell the 99 classics as geared towards the bass, not like the 650. I also own these too.
At this moment I’m listening to the 99 classics on my IPhone 7 with a DFR and they dig down insanely deep.
I agree with basically everything else but the bass on my classics with my gear is quite excellent.
At the end of the day for me, I’ll reach for the PH’s before the Meze and day.
I dont know, different ears, different gear, different opinions. All in all, it’s all good.

 

[cskippy]

just proves ears hear differently from graphs.......

I agree that frequency response doesn't tell us everything. Also, you can get an unrealistically good seal with a flat plate coupler and leather pads that is hard to match on someone's head. I added a red line to show how the bass might be on one's head. I won't comment much since I only briefly heard them but thought the Meze had too much mid bass and too much of a downward tilt to be considered neutral. They are warm and fun but lack clarity with the excess bass. I wish I had more head time to properly give listening impressions with the Meze 99.

@koover TH-X00 Purpleheart was really good with Ori pads. They did have a upper mid/lower treble rise in response that made them sound engaging especially with distorted guitars. Comfort aside, I like the stock pads quite a bit for their sonic quality. The Dekoni TH-X00 series Sheepskin pads are also very good. The red line is what I consider my ideal frequency response. Most headphones hover around this curve. The Auteur is one of the best sounding headphones I've heard and follows this curve very closely. It has incredible bass extension and linearity throughout the frequency response with the exception of the slight bump at 6kHz and the high frequency roll off.

 

[Mark Up]

I dont know, different ears, different gear, different opinions.

That's true. I'd seen others here with the same opinion of the Meze and Tyll and others, including his measurements bear that out so it may be as he stated, because of such variance based on how they are worn. With different shaped ears, and heads, it's understandable that such a volatile sound possibility can show that kind of a tonal variance. Especially given the "look down, look straight ahead, look up" test I did which affects all headphones, but the Meze the most, changing what you hear radically in each place.

 

[koover]

I agree that frequency response doesn't tell us everything. Also, you can get an unrealistically good seal with a flat plate coupler and leather pads that is hard to match on someone's head. I added a red line to show how the bass might be on one's head. I won't comment much since I only briefly heard them but thought the Meze had too much mid bass and too much of a downward tilt to be considered neutral. They are warm and fun but lack clarity with the excess bass. I wish I had more head time to properly give listening impressions with the Meze 99.

@koover TH-X00 Purpleheart was really good with Ori pads. They did have a upper mid/lower treble rise in response that made them sound engaging especially with distorted guitars. Comfort aside, I like the stock pads quite a bit for their sonic quality. The Dekoni TH-X00 series Sheepskin pads are also very good. The red line is what I consider my ideal frequency response. Most headphones hover around this curve. The Auteur is one of the best sounding headphones I've heard and follows this curve very closely. It has incredible bass extension and linearity throughout the frequency response with the exception of the slight bump at 6kHz and the high frequency roll off.

The Auteur is one of the finest sounding headphones I've ever heard. I was fortunate enough that I had almost a week with them before I had to begrudgingly send them back. LOL. Nevertheless, I was ecstatic that I had the opportunity and I'm grateful to Zach for his kindness. This is another HP (if not the one) that's on my shortest of lists. I also heard the Atticus and as much as I liked it, I absolutely loved the Auteur and still can't get it out of my head. All ZMF products just absolutely kill (well I've only heard 3, but?) and I'd have no issue owning any one of them in his line-up.

Back to topic from a few posts ago, it was asked from @bgbkt if the PH was an upgrade to the Meze, I would say unequivocally a huge yes.
Just read the last 10 pages or so (quick read) of this thread and you'll receive a wealth of information and should assist you in your decision if you want to go down that route.