Fostex T60RP
Apr 23, 2019 at 7:19 AM Post #991 of 1,449
What kind of a amp needed to drive t60rps?

Per Fostex it will do 93db/milliWatt therefore 103 per 10 mW, 113 per 100mW and 123 per 1 Watt and almost 128 per 3 Watts.
In addition Fostex states that it will easily handle 3 Watt. I have taken it out repeatedly to 5 Watts.
Music is 90db and background Hall noise is 30db for a total of 120 db in classical music concerts (these are momentary 5msec peaks
the average or RMS values are typically 30 db lower) in rock concerts where there is lots of background noise, peaks approach 140 db
airplane take offs are 130+ db continuous (RMS).
The ifi Micro IDSD will deliver approximately 2 Watts into 50 Ohms and 4 Watts into 25 Ohms and thus will drive two Fostex RP sets
to Nirvana if an ifiUSB NANO (200$) is used to filter out the noise from the hardware and software from the PC or MAC coming though the USB cable.
IF state of the art software is used the Fostex will Kill most all 2000$ headphone sets.

1) Audirvana Plus (100$)
https://audirvana.com/windows/

2) JRiver 25 64K bit version (50$)
https://jriver.com/

3) Tone Boosters (Free)
https://www.toneboosters.com/

4) Sonarworks Reference 4 SystemWwide. (100$)
https://www.sonarworks.com/reference

44KHZ Waves or Flacs can be converted to DSD by JRiver and rendered by the Hires DAC of the Ifi MIcro DSD (450$).

The end game system for a Music-phile is 300+200+450+250= 1200$
or instead of PC or MAC a Walkman ZX300 and no need for the ifiUSB NANO.

The key word being Music-Phile and not Audio-Phile.
In My Own Opinion and my friends Music Professors, Musicians and Record label producers that have blind tested them against the sets I owned in my profile..

End of my Audio phile lifes story.

Ulysses and sirens

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Apr 23, 2019 at 7:27 AM Post #992 of 1,449
Thanks for the observations, @natto lover . I'll temper my expectations of the Fostex. Base rattle... I've seen that phrase used on earlier posts. Cable failure due to flexing.... The cable connection issue seems to be a chronic issue that plagues headphones. Even my beloved Sennheiser HD650 clones (from Massdrop) shorted out where the cable enters the jack (and that led to some warranty work [and led to me using an L-adapter to allow the cable to loosely dangle perpendicular to the amp]). I had a hell of a time with a pair of 4MU (?) wired headphones from PSB Sound (cracking headbands, drivers shorting out, multiple [waranty'ed] cable replacements). I had to abandon that pair, and assume I received a lemon. :triportsad:

I guess I have to consider headphone cables 'consumables'... and re-learn how to solder wires! Sheesh. :ksc75smile:

FYI, I had no cable issues at all, but the bass buzzing was real and annoying, not just with test tones.
 
Apr 23, 2019 at 8:41 AM Post #993 of 1,449
None of the cable connection problems and rattling bass noises has ever been observed in any of my 7 units of various T2/4/5/6 RP's

Since you are in the UK you have two options

1) risk on a T60 that you may return if it has the base problem

or

2) Better yet get the T20 at half price in the UK and the Mayflower Mod kit from the US for 30$ and perform the mod exactly as shown in the YouTube video that Sandy and Tyler made on how to perform it, The result is exceptionally good (basically ZMF mod on Blackwood). The sound is different from the T60 but equally good. There will be enough material left for you to fine tune the mod to your taste.

The difference is the T60 romantic wood timbre to the sound, ;louder and hotter treble and more aggressive mids. The modded T20 is more refined and has more kick to the kick drum and base in general.

Bear in mind that everything I say I did try repeatedly but and this is a big but, I am always using ZMF pads. Material does not matter as much as size of the inner opening and Alpha pads by Mr. speaker tend to have a smaller opening and are more suited to small ears than ZMF pads as they achieve a better seal thus bass and soudstage..
 
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Apr 23, 2019 at 9:52 AM Post #994 of 1,449
Related, it would be great if people reading these posts could run a quick test with the Bass Shaker track here (using a decent amp and volume): https://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php

I'm thankful the headfi community's sharing this information. @sbtourist , thanks for the link. I'll take a look at it.

It would be interesting to know, so far based on this thread it seems like _everyone_ who tried that test had rattling.

I did only write to the UK distributor and they opened a support case and offered to swap with a new pair which they would manually test; the thing is, as I said, I'm seriously afraid all pairs do suffer from this issue.

I'm seriously considering the Modhouse Argon Mk2 ... as a modified Fostex. I'm assuming Modhouse fix that issue inside the stock cups -- The Argon's get rid of the buzzing, rattling, and creaking!

Thanks for giving it a try! Just to be sure, did you use a decent amp and upped the volume a bit?

As Artyouth said, any regular 3.5mm non-balanced cable will fit in the Fostex.
Just watch out for the size of the connector itself. Some won't fit........{snip}........I contacted my distributor, and they asked me to describe the issue, so I told them everything that I've said here.
I also told them that many people seemed to have a similar issue according to this topic. Now I'm waiting for an answer. They were pretty fast to respond, and they seemed nice, so it looks good so far......{snip}........Pretty bad experience so far....{snip}.........And... They didn't reply.

Sobering info. Thanks, @MetalChameau


Hi folks,
So, I just wanted to update on my rattling left earcup:........{snip}.............These are issues you have with a pair of $10 headphones from Walmart... NOT what's supposed to, and advertised to be a top-tier, audiophile quality pair of headphones........{snip}............ RESEARCHING FOR A POTENTIAL PURCHASE OF THE FOSTEX T60RP, DO NOT BUY THEM.

Damn, @exiled. Grim headphone news. It's a pity the mahogany-cupped T60RP are not living up to their potential. If I eventually purchase my 3rd 'phone (I don't need it), I had better think long and hard about what I'm getting myself into. :frowning2:

This is not good. I don't want to potentially end up with a product that fails after a short time of use, or after I've spent many hours modding them. I will consider the Sundara or M1060C instead, until I have my electrostatic up and running.

It's crazy-making, isn't it, @Oneminde ? I was also going to jump on the HiFiMan Sundara bandwagon... and then I read up on THEIR QC concerns. Sigh. Even with my Sony MDR7510 (the model without any folding hinges) & Senheisser HD650 clone (by Massdrop), I treat them like eggs -- they never leave the house! Pity.

In order to be sure the drivers are not defective I'd suggest the following procedure:
1) Connect the Fostex to a decent headphone amp.
2) Use a tone generator such as https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/ to run a 40hz sine tone continuosly.
3) Increase the amp volume while the tone is playing until it either buzzes (in which case it means it's defective) or it get uncomfortable (in which case it means it's good).

I really hope you find out all is good!
Item (2) is intriguing! I'll try it out. Thanks, @sbtourist ... I'm glad I found this thread.
What kind of a amp needed to drive t60rps?
Welcome to the forum, @Suppa92 . I'm a fan of the ~$100 to ~$150 USD headphone amps like the JDS Labs Atom, the Schiit Audio Magni3 (I have this model... no regrets), and even the Mayflower O2/ODAC. I believe you live in Southeast Asia, right? Shipping & customs might add to the cost. I also suspect these units are tough enough for your warm climate... yes? :)
 
Apr 23, 2019 at 4:28 PM Post #995 of 1,449
Very interested on the software you say, even I totally have no idea what it is.

I've got my Verum last week. I can understand why people praise its sound but not my cup of tea. I will use one word to describe: compress.
However it has a natural timbre(the most important factor for me) that next to my T20 mod and the Lambda Signature.

Looking forward to see your Verum review kintsaki.

Natural Timbre is also my number one priority, and the next is dynamic range.
I am working on that and hope to have a solution soon along with a unique quality not present in any other phone.
I have little hope the Verum will work out for m because I know what is wrong with it and what is different that may fix it but based on comments I read the probability it will fix its fundamental design problem that is present in all non Fostex orthos I owned so far by the departure it has taken, is small.
 
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Apr 23, 2019 at 10:30 PM Post #996 of 1,449
Welcome to the forum, @Suppa92 . I'm a fan of the ~$100 to ~$150 USD headphone amps like the JDS Labs Atom, the Schiit Audio Magni3 (I have this model... no regrets), and even the Mayflower O2/ODAC. I believe you live in Southeast Asia, right? Shipping & customs might add to the cost. I also suspect these units are tough enough for your warm climate... yes? :)
Thanks man, :) Yes, I'm from south Asia and climate is humid & very warm here, I think these will be OK with that. How is the bass performance of these? How they response to EQ?
 
Apr 24, 2019 at 7:48 AM Post #997 of 1,449
Thanks man, :) Yes, I'm from south Asia and climate is humid & very warm here, I think these will be OK with that. How is the bass performance of these? How they response to EQ?
The rumour mill has it that the Mayflower gear's "neutral"... whatever that means. I'm partial to the Magni3... it provides plenty of oomph to any headphone I throw at it. I'm intrigued by the products by JDS Labs. If I had to buy I another one, I'd select The Element... for its aesthetics, and its incredible volume knob (mind you, constant humidity MIGHT corrode its big potentiometer [knob]).

I think your question about EQ means the units' response to equalization, right? So, you're either doing that with software or a dedicated analog 'tone control' of some kind. That's a bit beyond my understanding -- I picked up an electronic toy from Schiit Audio, their Loki Mini. Its tone control's restricted to 4 channels. My Magni3 responds very well to the Loki (I use it to bring out the mid-frequencies on my Sennheisers... and crank it up on songs that demand a thumping base). @Ableza ... question, sir... would you be able to comment more about this question ($100-200 USD headphone amplifiers and how they respond to either analog or digital tone control)?
 
Apr 24, 2019 at 10:43 AM Post #998 of 1,449
Hi there. So the question is why do some amplifiers respond to EQ better than others? Wow, that's not an easy thing to discuss. The bottom line is about what audiophiles call system synergy. Some combinations of gear - source, amp, load - perform differently than do other combinations. It generally has to do with impedance loading and sometimes with component resonances, it's really not "synergy" in the sense of things "getting along." Analog EQ tends to sound better than digital EQ because digital EQ and volume controls change the signal bit depth while analog boosts or cuts the signal strength by adding or subtracting voltage, which is an entirely different mechanism. EQ should be used for customizing a system that already sounds good, not to try and fix one that sounds like ass. It is for minor tweaks, not major replacements of missing sound. So, if you want my general recommendation, I say mix and edit the signal digitally, tailor it in terms of tone and volume on the analog side. And if your headphones sound good with your amp before EQ, it has the best chance of sounding good afterwards. :)
 
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Apr 24, 2019 at 12:26 PM Post #999 of 1,449
Hi there. So the question is why do some amplifiers respond to EQ better than others? Wow, that's not an easy thing to discuss. The bottom line is about wat audiophiles call system synergy. Some combinations of gear - source, amp, load - perform differently than do other combinations. It generally has to do with impedance loading and sometimes with component resonances, it's really not "synergy" in the sense of things "getting along." Analog EQ tends to sound better than digital EQ because digital EQ and volume controls change the signal bit depth while analog boosts or cuts the signal strength by adding or subtracting voltage, which is an entirely different mechanism. EQ should be used for customizing a system that already sounds good, not to try and fix one that sounds like ass. It is for minor tweaks, not major replacements of missing sound. So, if you want my general recommendation, I say mix and edit the signal digitally, tailor it in terms of tone and volume on the analog side. And if your headphones sound good with your amp before EQ, it has the best chance of sounding good afterwards. :)
That's very informative. Thanks for sharing with us.
But are there any good analog level EQ units available other than the Schiit Loki?
There were lot of Graphic Equalisers years ago, now it's something very rare. There're some Professional Graphic Equalisers like dbx 215s (15-band, ~$180) but don't it's wise decision to use Professional Graphic EQ with headphone amps and each channel has to be adjusted separately.
 
Apr 24, 2019 at 1:07 PM Post #1,000 of 1,449
That's very informative. Thanks for sharing with us.
But are there any good analog level EQ units available other than the Schiit Loki?
There were lot of Graphic Equalisers years ago, now it's something very rare. There're some Professional Graphic Equalisers like dbx 215s (15-band, ~$180) but don't it's wise decision to use Professional Graphic EQ with headphone amps and each channel has to be adjusted separately.
Good question. I don't know what EQ's are out there these days, and I've never even seen a Loki. Most of my experience is with pro-level gear, and the key to that is noise floor. Get one with the highest S/N you can find.
 
Apr 25, 2019 at 2:06 PM Post #1,001 of 1,449
Natural Timbre is also my number one priority, and the next is dynamic range.
I am working on that and hope to have a solution soon along with a unique quality not present in any other phone.
I have little hope the Verum will work out for m because I know what is wrong with it and what is different that may fix it but based on comments I read the probability it will fix its fundamental design problem that is present in all non Fostex orthos I owned so far by the departure it has taken, is small.
Small driver size?
Yes I understand and agree what you say. But the small and thick driver have to match with tons of current from an powerful amp to make it FLY. (I use XLS1500 for my T20 as your suggestion. Thanks for that).

The only 3 Pros of Verum one I listen is the timbre, big imaging size and marco dynamic (best dynamic of my phones collection). So you may like it, if you can accept most of the mechanical design problems I found.
Let's talk in the Verum thread after you receive and review them.
 
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Apr 25, 2019 at 3:18 PM Post #1,002 of 1,449
Small driver size?
Yes I understand and agree what you say. But the small and thick driver have to match with tons of current from an powerful amp to make it FLY. (I use XLS1500 for my T20 as your suggestion. Thanks for that).

The only 3 Pros of Verum one I listen is the timbre, big imaging size and marco dynamic (best dynamic of my phones collection). So you may like it, if you can accept most of the mechanical design problems I found.
Let's talk in the Verum thread after you receive and review them.


still no tracking number...
 
Apr 25, 2019 at 3:33 PM Post #1,003 of 1,449
Hi there. So the question is why do some amplifiers respond to EQ better than others? Wow, that's not an easy thing to discuss. The bottom line is about what audiophiles call system synergy. Some combinations of gear - source, amp, load - perform differently than do other combinations. It generally has to do with impedance loading and sometimes with component resonances, it's really not "synergy" in the sense of things "getting along." Analog EQ tends to sound better than digital EQ because digital EQ and volume controls change the signal bit depth while analog boosts or cuts the signal strength by adding or subtracting voltage, which is an entirely different mechanism. EQ should be used for customizing a system that already sounds good, not to try and fix one that sounds like ass. It is for minor tweaks, not major replacements of missing sound. So, if you want my general recommendation, I say mix and edit the signal digitally, tailor it in terms of tone and volume on the analog side. And if your headphones sound good with your amp before EQ, it has the best chance of sounding good afterwards. :)

Analog Equalizers do not preserve the phase, while the latest software ones do. As for soft clipping it can be precisely (surgically) be tuned by multi band dynamic compressors such as the ToneBoosters v3 and v4 that can be visually adjusted both in time and in the frequency domain and if you like the pleasing distortion of analog equipment such as the ones used by
today's great mastering engineers utilizing 50's and 60's hardware you can have that too by adding the Acustica authorized plugins that clone those hardware and have been found to equal them by the original hardware manufactures of those analog consoles amps etc..
To do this it will be necessary to 1) learn the basics of mastering, 2)to make sure that your source, amp, and phones are phase linear and that your amp is as close to a zero output impedance across the entire frequency spectrum.
Once you fine tune a recording to your own system and preferences you can save the PCM file convert it to DSD and use your hires DAC to achieve vinyl smooth analog sound.

here is the link for Acustica
http://www.acustica-audio.com/store/products/pink

I provided the other links in a prior post one or two pages before
 
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