Fostex T60RP
Dec 25, 2018 at 2:44 AM Post #826 of 1,449
And I read someone asked how to improve soundstage. I made this mod and happy with it. (add this gap have to retune the driver)

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fos...nd-measurements.618659/page-166#post-14591669
10196673.jpg
 
Dec 25, 2018 at 7:39 AM Post #827 of 1,449
Just like the headphone journey in trying to figure out what is neutral; learning about "trolls" is also complicated. I'm still a student myself learning about his theory of this "new breed" of humans.

If you have any questions, you can PM headphone or matrix related lol

I'm a bit shocked how you managed to get a M.Sc and PhD with low IQ.

but yeah back to the headphones business now ... :D

Whoa, you've been a member since 01? Mind Blown[/QUOTE
Copy Cat, when a blind man develops extraordinary hearing to overcome his shortcoming an almost moron learns through history philosophy and literature to develop
Imagination,

Inspiration,

Intuition,

Instinct,

Insight,

Creativity,

Vision,

Empathy,

Diplomacy,

Enchantment,

then he sets a goal like Alekhine to defeat Capablanka in Chess and achieved it...

extreme luck and hard work are absolutely necessary ingredients of course...
and perhaps bipolar disorder which I helped the Greek Psychiatric community to recognize that can be exogenic as well as endogenic,,,and include it in DSM V along with two more variations of it that all together now only include 25% of the cases and the other 75% still need to be explored...and investigated...

Belief is not due to miracles, Miracles are due to belief (Dostogieyski) in English = Self fulfilling Prophesy!
we will continue I really like you!
Would you mind sharing where are you from?
 
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Dec 25, 2018 at 11:45 AM Post #828 of 1,449
Hi, I have been reading good stuff about the t60rp. I'd been wanting to try out a set of planars myself and I'm stuck here. I'm deciding between this (t60rp) and the hifiman he560, since I can get them at pretty much the same price. I also heard the argons are good but the waiting time is crazy. Which would be more likely to "wow" me? I currently have an hd6xx, but find myself not very satisfied with the sound I get. It's too laid back for my liking. It is good but not impactful, and definitely did not "wow" me on first try. I can't try these headphones in person because there aren't much hifi stores around at where I live.

I listen mostly to EDM (tropical, progressive), alternative, rock, pop, ballads, ocassionally orchestral music. Which would offer me better experience over the hd6xx, the t60rp or the he560?
 
Dec 26, 2018 at 1:45 AM Post #830 of 1,449
Hi, I have been reading good stuff about the t60rp. I'd been wanting to try out a set of planars myself and I'm stuck here. I'm deciding between this (t60rp) and the hifiman he560, since I can get them at pretty much the same price. I also heard the argons are good but the waiting time is crazy. Which would be more likely to "wow" me? I currently have an hd6xx, but find myself not very satisfied with the sound I get. It's too laid back for my liking. It is good but not impactful, and definitely did not "wow" me on first try. I can't try these headphones in person because there aren't much hifi stores around at where I live.

I listen mostly to EDM (tropical, progressive), alternative, rock, pop, ballads, ocassionally orchestral music. Which would offer me better experience over the hd6xx, the t60rp or the he560?

HE-560 comes in first place for sure (soundstage, musicality, comfort), then T50RP-mk3. Don't have the T60RP at the moment, but it's impossible to be much better than T50RP-mk3, so I would be inclined to HE-560. Have in mind that we're comparing here open-back HE-560 headphones with close-back from FOSTEX (well, semi-open if you want, but it's almost closed-can if you look closely).

L.E.: Might worth mentioning that my HE-560 had a rattle on one driver cup and I sent them back to UK, and after about 1 month or so I got a new pair from HK, as replacement. The rattling thing on HE-560 was not uncommon, just check HE-560 thread.
 
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Dec 26, 2018 at 2:17 AM Post #831 of 1,449
The rattle in my new T60s right ear came back and wouldnt go away this time so I exchanged for a another one...and now this one has it in the left ear.

This new ones serial number is 884, previous one also in 800s. Seems that there may be a bad batch of these out there.

My first one that I sold was under 300 and did not have this rattle issue. Really unfortunate these newer ones have it. They fixed the creaking only to have the drivers rattle.

On this latest one I have it doesnt happen untill the volume is quite loud, the knob past 12 o clock (high gain) on a magni 3, and only when blasted with tones below 100hz. Only song I have noticed it happening on is Kelela- All the Way down, and only when the Magni is near 5 o clock.

Might just send it to Fostex directly and have them try to fix it. but asking E-earphone about it first.
 
Dec 26, 2018 at 2:34 AM Post #832 of 1,449
Hi, I have been reading good stuff about the t60rp. I'd been wanting to try out a set of planars myself and I'm stuck here. I'm deciding between this (t60rp) and the hifiman he560, since I can get them at pretty much the same price. I also heard the argons are good but the waiting time is crazy. Which would be more likely to "wow" me? I currently have an hd6xx, but find myself not very satisfied with the sound I get. It's too laid back for my liking. It is good but not impactful, and definitely did not "wow" me on first try. I can't try these headphones in person because there aren't much hifi stores around at where I live.

I listen mostly to EDM (tropical, progressive), alternative, rock, pop, ballads, ocassionally orchestral music. Which would offer me better experience over the hd6xx, the t60rp or the he560?

If you are like me , either of them would WOW you compared to a 6xx as I just dont like that headphone much.


In terms of sound it depends on what your looking for. The T60 has a smaller soundstage but everything sounds closer and more intense as a result. I think its the best headphone for guitars I have heard, all varieties of guitar sound amazing on it. Other headphones may do individual types better (e.g Sennheiser 660s makes rhythm guitars sound slightly crunchier) but none of them do all types as well IMO. if you are not sensitive to the 10k range they are good to go out the box with no EQ (although personally I EQ down the 10k peak by 5DB).

The HE560 has a larger grander sound , owning to its much larger drivers and that its a fully open headphone. Soundstage is considerably wider, and it has extremely low distortion in the bass. I would say its better for EDM generally. It does not have a 10k peak like the T60 does, but its got one around 4k that is rough if you are sensitive to that range as I am. Its also got a dip at 2k that may or may not be to your preference. Easily fixed by EQ of course and when 4k EQed down and 2k up a little, I thought it was great.

Both of them require you to have a powerful amplifier as they are the two most difficult headphones to power I have ever used.

For the non-sound factors, both have some considerations.

If you are considering the Adorama camera version of the 560 the clamp is quite strong on it and it may not be comfortable for you, it was not for me. T60 is more comfortable IMO as its got a much lighter clamp on it. The regular HE560 is good from a comfortable perspective but many of them suffer from snapping yokes which is concerning.

I think the T60 is better built and feels like it would last longer than the 560. Though if you have been falling this thread you have seen that rattling/buzzing drivers is an issue with the T60s, though I suspect there is just a bad batch of them out there, so you may have to exchange it or send it to Fostex if you get one of the bad ones.

Of course Hifiman is also notorious for having awful QC so that is a possibility with any of their products as well.

Some enterprising person should just make a company that produces planar headphones with the slogan "WE ACTUALLY HIRED A QUALITY ASSURANCE TEAM" and they would sell loads of headphones.
 
Dec 26, 2018 at 3:42 AM Post #833 of 1,449
The rattle in my new T60s right ear came back and wouldnt go away this time so I exchanged for a another one...and now this one has it in the left ear.

This new ones serial number is 884, previous one also in 800s. Seems that there may be a bad batch of these out there.

My first one that I sold was under 300 and did not have this rattle issue. Really unfortunate these newer ones have it. They fixed the creaking only to have the drivers rattle.

On this latest one I have it doesnt happen untill the volume is quite loud, the knob past 12 o clock (high gain) on a magni 3, and only when blasted with tones below 100hz. Only song I have noticed it happening on is Kelela- All the Way down, and only when the Magni is near 5 o clock.

Might just send it to Fostex directly and have them try to fix it. but asking E-earphone about it first.

I wonder if resitting/rearranging the "rattling driver" inside the coup or using some dampening foam inside, so driver do not sit on the wood coups but to sit on the dampening foam, might help in reducing the rattling.
 
Dec 26, 2018 at 5:39 AM Post #834 of 1,449
If you are like me , either of them would WOW you compared to a 6xx as I just dont like that headphone much.


In terms of sound it depends on what your looking for. The T60 has a smaller soundstage but everything sounds closer and more intense as a result. I think its the best headphone for guitars I have heard, all varieties of guitar sound amazing on it. Other headphones may do individual types better (e.g Sennheiser 660s makes rhythm guitars sound slightly crunchier) but none of them do all types as well IMO. if you are not sensitive to the 10k range they are good to go out the box with no EQ (although personally I EQ down the 10k peak by 5DB).

The HE560 has a larger grander sound , owning to its much larger drivers and that its a fully open headphone. Soundstage is considerably wider, and it has extremely low distortion in the bass. I would say its better for EDM generally. It does not have a 10k peak like the T60 does, but its got one around 4k that is rough if you are sensitive to that range as I am. Its also got a dip at 2k that may or may not be to your preference. Easily fixed by EQ of course and when 4k EQed down and 2k up a little, I thought it was great.

Both of them require you to have a powerful amplifier as they are the two most difficult headphones to power I have ever used.

For the non-sound factors, both have some considerations.

If you are considering the Adorama camera version of the 560 the clamp is quite strong on it and it may not be comfortable for you, it was not for me. T60 is more comfortable IMO as its got a much lighter clamp on it. The regular HE560 is good from a comfortable perspective but many of them suffer from snapping yokes which is concerning.

I think the T60 is better built and feels like it would last longer than the 560. Though if you have been falling this thread you have seen that rattling/buzzing drivers is an issue with the T60s, though I suspect there is just a bad batch of them out there, so you may have to exchange it or send it to Fostex if you get one of the bad ones.

Of course Hifiman is also notorious for having awful QC so that is a possibility with any of their products as well.

Some enterprising person should just make a company that produces planar headphones with the slogan "WE ACTUALLY HIRED A QUALITY ASSURANCE TEAM" and they would sell loads of headphones.
Hey thanks for the input. I think I’d get the he560 based on what you described. Hd6xx is too laid back and imo, boring. Any other options that you recommend in this price range? Something that has more of a wow factor over the 6xx.
 
Dec 26, 2018 at 10:25 AM Post #835 of 1,449
Hey thanks for the input. I think I’d get the he560 based on what you described. Hd6xx is too laid back and imo, boring. Any other options that you recommend in this price range? Something that has more of a wow factor over the 6xx.

If you want to save money the 4xx with EQ is not far behind the 560, though its never quite as good even with EQ. Damn good value for the price though.

If you have never tried any of the AKG K series (Akg K701/702/712/Q701) they wow many people. They have a extremely wide sounding soundstage. I personally do not like it as I find it to sound unnaturally wide, but its certainly a very different presentation that some people are crazy about. I would try them in a store before buying any of them as you may not care for it.

I have tried so many headphones now I dont really get WOWed anymore lol. Its why I have settled on the T60 for the time being, they sound great,handle every genre well enough, are comfortable ,and dont leak sound so much which keeps the wife from complaining.

The sound leak factor is another one to take into consideration that I forgot to mention, the HE560 leak sound like crazy. Which is fine if your by yourself in a room or listen very quietly, otherwise they will annoy others as they are very open. The T60 dont leak nearly as badly and wont bother anyone at low-moderate volumes.
 
Dec 27, 2018 at 4:18 AM Post #836 of 1,449
i
Hey thanks for the input. I think I’d get the he560 based on what you described. Hd6xx is too laid back and imo, boring. Any other options that you recommend in this price range? Something that has more of a wow factor over the 6xx.

These cans are so different in every aspect, so...if you can, then get them both. :)
Sometimes I have the impression that my HE-560 are louder on the exterior that in my head, so there's no isolation at all. Some people inside your home might get disturbed by this.
Instead, the T50/T60RP are having a decent isolation...not very good, but much better than HE-560.
 
Dec 27, 2018 at 5:25 AM Post #837 of 1,449
i

These cans are so different in every aspect, so...if you can, then get them both. :)
Sometimes I have the impression that my HE-560 are louder on the exterior that in my head, so there's no isolation at all. Some people inside your home might get disturbed by this.
Instead, the T50/T60RP are having a decent isolation...not very good, but much better than HE-560.
Haha I can’t get them both. Even if I had the money I’d rather get a pair of elex or something like that. Thanks for the input :)
 
Dec 31, 2018 at 11:44 AM Post #838 of 1,449
Just realized you do own TH-900 and wondering a compare vs. T50RPmk3. Based on Tyll's measurements I see that TH-900 has an almost ideal freq. response on 30Hz, so bass should sound about perfect, but still...the lowest couple of octaves are somehow increased in amplitude, so I guess a bit of EQ-ing to notch'em down few dBs might provide a more neutral sound. Instead, T50RPmk3 is more flat, but bass square-wave are completely inaccurate at 30Hz; even in "real-life" if we do listen to sine-waves and not to square-waves, these measurements should tell us something about the impulse response for the low-end band, so definitely the bass on the TH900 should sound better and closer to reality than T50RPmk3, but looking further for your thoughts. Thank you!

Semi-knowledgeable reviewers and headphone makers have to make a living. So why do you listen to them and not me. Fostex IS knowledgeable but they decided to enter the audio fool market and picked the old time great Denon D2000 made the TH-900 and now the 909 and Zack is making the Verite this is their way to fool the audio fools to make a back, a T50rp with twice the enclosure size filled with fiberglass will destroy those junks. The T50 RP when tuned (bass ports) beats the TH-900 on all except electronically artificially produced music genres period.
 
Dec 31, 2018 at 12:17 PM Post #839 of 1,449
Thank you for the reply.

[...]So why do you listen to them and not me. [...]
You're competing to my wife on the "listening" part, based on a written contract she's the only one on Earth I need to listen to (yeah, right...), but I'll see what I can do. :)

P.S.: HAPPY LISTENING IN 2019 YO'ALL!!!
 
Jan 5, 2019 at 6:49 PM Post #840 of 1,449
Hello.
I've read this thread from end to end and I'm ready to make a comment or two, but before that, allow me to inform you about my experience with headphones so you can get an idea where I come from and where I am heading.

1) I must admit that while I have been using both IAM's, on-ear and over-ear, my experience is somewhat limited but not without references. IAM's and on-ear are out of the questions, they are very uncomfortable and therefore I will not chaise down a potential winner. What is left is over-ear which to me is the overall way personal listening should be enjoyed. But this is very personal and to them who absolutely love the two types I excluded I have this to say: I am happy for you :)

2) When it comes to actual headphones, here is my list and a short comment on each one:

- I currently "rock" the Audio Technica ATH-M40X. I bought these to replace my broken pair of Qpad QH90 / Takstar pro 80. I've had the M40X for more than 6 months and while they where an upgrade in terms of upper clarity and better mids, as time passed, I felt that they got worse and worse. (Burn in making them worse ?). The low end is rolled off and very lacking, unless you crush them onto your ears then you get some bass in return but all clarity is gone. What I can say about these is that you should avoid them at all cost. For starters they are boringly neutral, yes boring. There is nothing exiting about them. Even if some soundstage and instrumental separation exist, they are on the verge of presenting everything as a 2D image, very flat and unengaged. The original earpads are borderline on-ear. I am currently using a new set of Takstar earpads which comfort-wise make them much better.

- In between the Qpad / Takstar and M40X, I own a pair of RBH HP-2. So far these have the best bass I've listened to, no one so far touches them and I love this about them. They are also presented really nice in the highs and has a good amount of brilliance and presence. They are V shape sound embodied, but lack in soundstage and separation, but is better than the M40X. If the HP-2 had fixed the soundstage and separation issues, I would give them a much higher score. They are above average but come short. The build quality is subpar and feels really cheap. Clamping force is unbearable and I had to use a large amount of force to make them tolerable. The cups have a classic reflection issue which introduce a metallic boomy sound in the low end which I am sure could have been address with some mods. The 45mm Be driver used in these headphones have potential and I would love to redesign the cups and headphones from scratch. But that is for another time.

- Audeze lcd-2, (My first planar magnetic). Did not own these but spent perhaps 30 min listening to them. While they are overall better then the stuff I have listed so far, being lush and smooth, again, boringly neutral. They are not another set of bad headphones but they did not do it for me.

- Denon AH-D5000: (bio cellulose) Now these I did own for a few months. Top notch Build quality, nice earpads etc etc. But.... I am afraid its getting boring here because yet another set of cans which have a fairly neutral frequency response curve. LCD-2 is better than the D5K here.

- Focal Utopia: Enormous clarity and presence, very refined, nice lush mids ... and full stop. They did not have the soundstage I was hoping for > read as to close for comfort, but instrumental separation was top notch. Sadly they failed in the low end section and the verdict is that although they do certain things in a good way, there is no way I can justify $5000, they are simply not that good. Overprice, you bet ya and too heavy as well..

3). I definitely lean towards the V shape sound but don't want it to be overwhelming. I want the headphone to have a good soundstage and instrumental separation. Think of it as a holographic representation. I don't want the upper midrange and upper portion 5-10kHz to veiled, it must be transparent and clear without presenting sibilant, it also need a good amount of subbase with a nice kick to it. Is that too much to ask for :)

I did use the T60RP measurement and added it to an existing one which include the RBH HP-2 and Sennheiser HD598SE - It is scaled correctly.

39656593303_f272f50c82_b.jpg


It looks very interesting and I will say that it certainly follow the HP-2 curve fairly nicely between 70-1500 Hz which is promising and right now, I don't think I mind the dip in the 4kHz area. It follows the Fletcher-Munson curve (equal loudness) fairly nicely which is a good sign. I wonder if the extended sub-bass which many of you are working on is getting the Fr closer to that of the RBH-HP2 curve ?

I can't afford the T50RP Mk.III / T60RP just yet, but will hopefully pick up a pair this summer. In the meantime I will follow this thread and other Tx0RP modding threads to pick up some ideas.

4) This one is for Kintsaki who have contributed a fare bit and I have a question for you regarding amplifier. I get the part of damping factor and having enough power reserve since the Fostex cans seem to be rather power hungry, so here is an amp I am considering and want to run it by you. What do you think.

NAD D3020 V2. (speaker terminal driven)
Class; D
DF: >300
Power: @ 50 ohm this equal roughly 9-10 W dynamic. Std watt is roughly 4,68 W.

And a happy new year to all.
23qjpzi
 
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