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Formula 1-fi (Read the First Post!)

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  1. Hutnicks
    Hard to believe one can feel sympathy for a multimillionaire kid, but yeah he was robbed. Even Kimi thinks that and that should be damning enough for the FIA to get real stewards into the picture who actually know what it is like to fight for a win. Stewarding in F1 is pretty much degenerated into welfare for has beens who never were in the first place. Get Mansell in for a race or two:)
     
  2. gr8soundz
    I wondered if the stewards first planned to do nothing but maybe someone at Ferrari complained to force their hand in that instance. Doubt anyone complained in earlier cases of going off track since their drivers were doing it too. But Max did mention one particular steward who is usually present whenever he gets a controversial penalty.
     
  3. WraithApe
    It transpired it was the same steward responsible for the fiasco at Mexico last season too - messing around with the podium positions after the race was done. It doesn't look good for the sport; anyone coming to it new, maybe even a few in the Austin crowd yesterday, would be like 'What, I swear I just saw that guy finish fourth!'. Among many things that are making the sport a poorer spectacle, like gearbox penalties that punish drivers rather than constructors, bad stewardship is up there. This particular steward should definitely be gone after making a hash of things two years running, but I have every faith that he'll still be in place next year. Real shame, because other than that, this race showed what drama F1 is capable of delivering if the powers that be would just leave it alone, let the drivers race and stop interfering so much. It's the first one to have me hooked for quite a while now, which I wasn't really expecting.
     
  4. Hutnicks
    Bollocks! The same clown will probably be in Mexico again next week.:) Black spot on a pretty decent season thus far. Nailed for a fiver for exeeding track limits but you only get a tenner if you intentionally stick your nose cone into the race leader under a safety car. Seems fair doesn't it?

    They should have let Clinton steward the bloody race.

    So much for letting the drivers race this season. It was going quite well up until recently. The penalty system is really grating on everyones nerves so I can see that getting a big review in the near future. No one except the FIA seems to like it.

    Odd that the new owners do not seem to speak up on this stuff in public at all.
     
  5. gr8soundz
    Good point about the weak Baku penalty. Only thing in common with that and COTA is both situations involved a red car. I dislike thinking the FIA favors one team over others (outside of revenue sharing) but it's hard not to when penalties seem to repeatedly favor Ferrari. Guess we can't have the Scuderia black flagged or finishing off the podium.
     
  6. Roen
    Wrong tenner.

    Penalties in increasing order of severity:

    5 second time penalty to be served at next pit stop (or 5 seconds added after the race)
    10 second time penalty to be served at next pit stop - can perform a pit stop after serving the penalty (or 10 seconds added after the race)
    drive through (or 20 seconds added after the race)
    10 second stop/go - cannot perform a pit stop after serving the penalty (or 30 seconds added after the race)

    I believe Vettel got the most severe time penalty that the stewards can give.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2017
  7. gr8soundz
    A drive through takes longer but the most severe time penalty they can impose is no time in the form of a black flag. That's the penalty that should have been handed out after a driver essentially ignored the safety car protocol by intentionally colliding with another car on track twice. But again, it's Ferrari so they get a lesser penalty in their favor and still finished 4th.

    Yesterday they got 3rd place to (IMO) save face after being passed by a 20 year old who started almost last in a car with less horsepower.
     
    Slipmyster and WraithApe like this.
  8. Roen
    A black flag would be an exclusion penalty, rather than a time penalty. There are 4 time penalties that the stewards can give, which are listed above. Agreed that exclusion penalties are more severe than time penalties, but that wasn't what I was getting at.

    Also, a 10 second stop/go is a combination of the drive-through (so not being able to work on the car) + 10 second time penalty. Logically, it's more severe than the drive-through by itself. This is also reflected in the post race time penalties, if there is not enough time for a driver to serve the penalty on track. (+10 seconds for 10 second time penalty vs. +20 seconds for drive-through vs. +30 seconds for 10 second stop/go)
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2017
  9. Hutnicks
    The issue is one of the type of penalty itself. Even Schumacher got black flagged, albeit for a lesser infringement than intentionally driving into a competitor under the safety.
     
  10. Roen
    I don't disagree with that, I'm sure politics and the color red managed to lessen Vettel's deserving black flag penalty one step to a 30 second time / 10 second stop-go penalty instead.

    I was merely pointing out that the comparison between the 5 second and 10 second penalty posted earlier was done incorrectly, as it wasn't a comparison between the weakest (5 second) and second-weakest (10 second time) time penalties, but rather the comparison was between the weakest (5 second) and strictest (10 second stop/go) time penalties. (while categorizing a black flag as an exclusion penalty, rather than a time penalty).
     
  11. Hutnicks
    I should have been more clear then:) My original intent was not the time penalty comparison but rather the relative punitive measures that Ferrari International Assistance handed out for obvious intentional dangerous driving vs sliding all fours over a curb.

    In other words, Max would have been better off punting Kimi right off the track and taking that penalty while assuring he would be ahead at race end:)
     
  12. Roen
    Oh yeah, I was hoping Max would leave one wheel on the track and hold his line and, if contact happens, it happens.
     
  13. SteveOliver
    Max went off the track, cut the corner to make the overtake. Other drivers were going off track, but not to make a pass, he should have given the place back straight away. The penalty was IMHO correct, perhaps handed out wrongly, would it have been better served after the podium celebrations though, again IMHO probably not.
     
  14. oqvist
    This cutting ruling make much more sense then black flag Vettel for accidentally hitting Lewis twice. But its not really clear obviously if you defend a position you can cut as long as its not an entire chicane. But you cant cut to gain an advantage you didn't already have. Big question is it really consistent? Ricchies dive bombs are not always within track limits
     
  15. WraithApe
    I saw at least two instances where other drivers gained an advantage by going off track - Sainz on Ocon and Ricciardo on Bottas, earlier in the race. It was a question of the stewards not seeing the bigger picture here though - as has been said, all these punitive measures (including the much-despised gearbox penalties) are damaging the image of the sport and will turn off a lot of potential viewers. I also still maintain the decision to penalize Ericsson was incorrect, and another example of the poor level of stewardship at this particular race.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2017
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