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Formula 1-fi (Read the First Post!)

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  1. Hutnicks
    Wonder what Bernie is up to now? :)

    If they keep ramming through stuff like the halo the series will inevitably suffer.
     
  2. Hutnicks
  3. SteveOliver
    "Next year they will be allowed to add their own fairings, both to optimise aero, and to improve the overall looks of the Halo."

    Oh no a halo with 8-10 little wings on it, that will look great. :)
     
  4. Hutnicks
    Yeah. Can hardly wait till they get back to the Brabham BT52 thing where the aero there sucks all the air out of the cockpit and the drivers start fainting.

    In other news. Kubica seems to have done OK in the test. I really would like to know what his times were like in the Dead Bull sim against Max and Ric though.
     
  5. oqvist
    We will be back to the roof wing days
     
  6. Hutnicks
    Oh dear. Torro Rosso in serious negotiations with Honda. Either Marko has lost his mind or he knows something nobody else does. Given their outright vilification of Renault, I would love to see what kind of contract Honda would want to protect themselves.

    Explains Sainz' panic to get a move on though.

    The motor showing promise in Hungary, but still there is an awful lot of bad history on that powerplant with Mac.
     
  7. oqvist
    35 vs 4 in points. That is good panic :)

    Will see at Belgium and Italy. Question is why Renault can´t make anything from it´s factory support. Or it´s still Red Bull and Toro Rosso going before Renaults own team? Then why are they there?
     
  8. Hutnicks
    My personal opinion is that Dead Bull in the persona of Herr Marko are complete alimentary canals to deal with. Ferrari was well and trully happy to be shot of them and Renault is still stinging from the lambasting they took. Having to pressure Newey into coming back to fix the chassis has done nothing to ameliorate the relationship as they are still whipping the Regie over and underperforming engine. Fair enough, nobody would argue the Renault powerplant is on par with the Merc. However it does finish races and given where it is with the home team and the fact that RB had to pressgang Newey into a full time return it smacks of some arogance of a DFL team that got on to 4 WC's and is leveraging that for all it's worth.

    Taken as an overall slice of the history of F1 one could argue the point for those championships being a flash in the pan and further stretch that point to make RB look desperate to hold on to the bonus payments that in reality, they are nowhere near Mac or Ferrari or Merc for that matter in extracting. Four winning years out of the entire history of F1 really does not make a large impression and were it not for the fact that they occupy 4 grid positions out of 20 they would have no sway at all. Using Honda as the B team powerplant is nothing more than them leveraging their grid weight to cover all possible options. If it does not work out no drama as TR has no chance of a WC in any way shape or form. If it comes on song then all the better, Mac paid the freight and they get to claim all the glory as being the marriage of their chassis with the powerplant that the legacy team could not get to work.
     
  9. Muinarc
    All Hungary proved was that the Mac chassis isn't as garbage as I thought it might be. That engine is still a dog, it just didn't need to work that hard on that kart track. I'm betting Honda is desperate for more teams to use the engine just for the added data points and must be offering a tasty discount to anyone that'll take it. Notice that the other suppliers have had multiple teams since the start and they are all doing OK for the most part. I think Honda being stuck in 2 cars at the best of times and usually 1 to 0 for a whole race kills the amount of data needed to sort everything out.
     
  10. gr8soundz
    With F1 still having such high costs I don't see how anyone can overlook free engines (even if they decide not to use them). No doubt Monisha was trying to help with Sauber's recent financial troubles by agreeing to Honda's offer.

    Either way, Mclaren isn't in last place for the constructors (Sauber currently is). So as long as the powerplant can manage to get some points any team towards the bottom will consider it.
     
  11. oqvist
    Sauber was stuck with the 2016 Ferrari engine. ANYTHING is better then that including the Honda. It´s not like Monisha had a lot of options at the time. Had Sauber payed enough they could get the 2017 engine :wink:

    I don´t understand why you should get so much money due to being good in the 60s. Red Bull should make a lot due to being superior for 4 seasons this decade. They should scrap that system in it´s entirely but if any should loose it it´s team that doesn´t perform any longer like McLaren and Williams :)
     
  12. Hutnicks
    Yes sure, but Sauber gets the current Scud powerplant next year which seems like a pretty good deal. Even talk of the Scud using them as the "B" team sorry Haas but you ain't cutting it:)

    It's the overall contribution to the sport that gets the payouts. Thus far 4 championships and a lot of sleazbaggery make it look suspiciously like the sleazy wheel gets the grease here. No co incidence here that the only WDC they ever produced is a person of very questionable character and at the least one of those championships was engineered at the expense of a better driver on the team.If Merc and the Scud can shut them out for another year or two those payments may well evaporate. I doubt Chase is too happy with any of the payments and the sore thumb will be the first on the chopping block. That could well be a motivator to go with Honda on the B side as Honda does in fact have a history in the sport that merits more consideration than the overcaffinated drink hawkers do.
     
  13. oqvist
    Yeah it turned out for the better. As for Haas I do think they do a good job. If we look how williams perform relative to Mercedes. Though these teams are not collaborating in anything I imagine? And how Toro Rosso perform against Red Bull they are not doing all that bad. Sainz point scoring is quite spectacular looking at how the second teams are doing. Could be better if it wasn´t for some blunders though but he is surely hot :)

    McLaren is not contributing to the sport any more then Red Bull though. They are all in the same boat I would say I don´t believe in the nobleship there if you are born with a silver spoon and will get benefits just for being born into something. You better earn your pay.

    I am not sure which championship for Red Bull where Vettel was not simply faster then Mark Webber. Even Mark Webber acknowledged that Vettel had more pace :)

    For next season Force India should get overhauled with money seeing how they perform relative to budget :D
     
  14. Hutnicks
    Well Mac is the second winningest team in the history of the sport and has a reputation for bringing in some of the most amazing drivers not to mention cutting edge tech, ever so they have a fair amount of cred to trade on for those years where they go spare for wins. Dead Bull is and will always be a second banana team trying to attain the status of old hands.

    Williams is a cluster F and has been since the days Frank had to borrow money from Bernie just to buy motors. Much like Tyrell did, they do well when the money flows freely and have not a clue how to manage their money for the thin times. You will never read a driver autobio where they rave about the great times they had at Williams simply because there were none. Merc made a sound decision not to share any thing other than a motor with them. Take the money and distance yourself from the operation. Go back in time and see how Newey's career panned out at Williams for a little insight. He went to Mac and subsequently got poached by Dead Bull leading to the infamous quote that "Vettel won one world championship and Newey the other 3" Taken as an overall look and given what is occurring this season one can easily see the fragile structure of RB as a team. Contentious engine partnership, proof positive that they cannot build a car that works without Newey (and honestly his initial improvements were not really so dramatic that a good eng team should have been able to figure out) and you see a team that could very easily slip into the void with a very few bad decisions.

    Haas is doing okay given what they have to work with. Whether or not he sells the team when an offer inevitably comes along is up in the air. The real money to be made in F1 if you cannot win is to pay minimum wage to mediocre drivers and wait for some consortium that really wants in to buy you out. The Stewart Racing/Jaguar/Dead Bull scenario or Eddie Jordans almost outrageous deal to sell of his team

    Sauber of course is world renowned for it's ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. They had a very real shot at the WDC with Kubica and mid stream abandoned a winning horse in order to concentrate on a fantasy "next year" car, which of course turned out to be a dogs breakfast. If the Scud takes them on as junior partners you can be damn sure some management changes will be part of the deal.

    FI is doing exactly what Williams never did or does. Hitting hard and looking at any opportunity to bring along sponsorship money. If any of the small teams are going to benefit from Liberty's takeover it will be them. Vijay is no fool and would happily rename the team Carbon F1 if the boozemasters were willing to pony up the money. A sound engine deal and more than good enough chassis people are only hampered by the pit strategy folk who to be honest are really still learning what to do when your cars aren't DFL.
     
  15. oqvist
    Yes Newey is good but Vettel got brilliant results even before Newey. And it´s always the car that win championships never the driver in F1. You just have to beat your team mate. Have to disagree weither old merits is worth more then current. Ferrari in particular and mclaren williams of course have old time fans but I am not sure they are easilly collecting new ones while not performing or doing a good job in modern times.
     
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