[catscratch]

I have both the HD600 and HD650. They really are rather different. The HD600 is very neutral tonally - one of the few dynamics that really gets acoustic instrument tone right. It could use some more upper treble and some deeper bass, and less midbass boost, but on the whole it's very neutral as far as dynamics go. The HD650 is warm, full, lush, but when properly amped also very vibrant and energetic. It's a euphonic and pleasant headphone, a dynamic equivalent of the HE90 in the right rig, though with much harder-hitting bass. The HD600 OTOH is much closer to the Omega 2, though when it's properly driven it's much more forward and not polite in any way, as the O2 can sometimes be.

If you do go for the HD650, you have to amp it right. When you're hearing syrupy mush, you aren't giving the HD650 enough power. It should sound vibrant, energetic, and quite open. It will never be bright, but sounding dull and laid-back is a sure sign of not enough power.

The HD600, driven right, sounds very Grado-like, if anything, though more neutral in its frequency response. It's forward, vibrant, and has some serious slam. It will never have the soundstage and detail level to match up to the top-tier cans, but it is engaging enough for that to not matter. And, it always has its tonal accuracy, which only gets better in the right rig.

Balanced drive with both the HD600 and HD650 is the way to go, IMO.

 

[riceboy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have both the HD600 and HD650. They really are rather different. The HD600 is very neutral tonally - one of the few dynamics that really gets acoustic instrument tone right. It could use some more upper treble and some deeper bass, and less midbass boost, but on the whole it's very neutral as far as dynamics go. The HD650 is warm, full, lush, but when properly amped also very vibrant and energetic. It's a euphonic and pleasant headphone, a dynamic equivalent of the HE90 in the right rig, though with much harder-hitting bass. The HD600 OTOH is much closer to the Omega 2, though when it's properly driven it's much more forward and not polite in any way, as the O2 can sometimes be. If you do go for the HD650, you have to amp it right. When you're hearing syrupy mush, you aren't giving the HD650 enough power. It should sound vibrant, energetic, and quite open. It will never be bright, but sounding dull and laid-back is a sure sign of not enough power. The HD600, driven right, sounds very Grado-like, if anything, though more neutral in its frequency response. It's forward, vibrant, and has some serious slam. It will never have the soundstage and detail level to match up to the top-tier cans, but it is engaging enough for that to not matter. And, it always has its tonal accuracy, which only gets better in the right rig. Balanced drive with both the HD600 and HD650 is the way to go, IMO.

I agree with what Catscratch said. I've owned the HD600 and HD650 both together and sold them, and now I have them both in my possession again. I would say that the HD650s really need to have a good amp and if not then you get that syrupy sound and veil folks mention. I know as I heard it before when I first got them and they weren't amped right. Since getting them about 8 months ago and getting them properly amped I am really happy with them. Also the HD600 are easier to drive than the HD650s. It is the same with Grados that are easy to drive and hence the forward sound to the HD600s. Many like the HD600s more because of the fact that it is easier to drive IMHO. There are countless threads on this subject and I participated in many of those thread. There are some that feel how Catscratch and I feel about the sound of the HD650 and HD600, plus the need to get the rigth amount of amplification for the HD650s. There are some as well that feel that the HD650s don't get helped by a better amp and it isn't true. I see where both sides are coming from, but again your ears are the judge at the end of the day and nothing is going to change that. As long as you are happy with them that is all that matters when the music is playing

. Best of luck to the OP as well.

 

[raffy]

Just tried rolling different tubes in my amp and it seems to help add warmth to my HD600. Thanks for the advice, it does make sense to keep this and just get a HD650 if I see a used one I like down the road

 

[silverrain]

FWIW -- if you buy a used HD650 -- the older ones do NOT sound the same as the newer (current) ones -- yes, they are somewhat different.

The newer ones (of which I have bought 3 copies of) seem to have the overall sound spectrum shifted upward from the bass-end to the highs-end.

Not like the ones (2 pairs) I had a few years ago, at all. I could hear the difference immediately -- it was not a *subtle* shift.

Many here will support what I have just posted -- when someone posts about HD650, it would be really helpful to mention the age of their 650, or say old/new model, if they happen to know for sure.
This has been discussed ad-infintum in other threads here, so don't flame me for it. Just trying to be helpful.

Besides, I am contemplating getting (yet another) new HD650, and I therefore have a vested interest in the posted comments.

 

[Golden Monkey]

I agree 100% with what both silverrain and riceboy are saying...I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels that "the 650s are veiled" is a load of BS, but does seem to apply in a lot of systems. Amped properly, they are magnificent and can be vibrant (perfect word, btw...because they definitely are not "bright"), rich, and both punchy and detailed at the same time...

 

[pjw241142]

This is a really interesting thread as I own both but have yet to try a recently purchased SAA equinox in the HD650s and the stock HD650 cable in the HD600s (which from other threads seems to improve the HD600s).

Would changing cabling make a big difference as well?

 

[Golden Monkey]

Changing which cabling, the headphones, or others in your system?

 

[pjw241142]

Sorry, I meant the cabling from:

HD650: Stock to SAA Equinox: and

HD600: Stock to HD650 stock cable

OK?

 

[Golden Monkey]

Bang for buck wise, the 650 cable on the 600 is a good step, and recabling the 650's with something else (Zu, SAA, Moon, APS, Cardas, ALO, RAL, etc) is also good, but you start to reach the point of diminishing returns pretty quickly...they are all fairly expensive, and although they make a difference, you're talking "last few percent of sound" differences. Cardas is a good mid-level price point, or you couldn't go wrong with any of our talented DIYers here at a fraction of the cost. Me, I went all crazy top of the line APS, but did I get $350 worth of improvement? No, but I had reached the point where I was happy with everything else in the system, and wanted a sweet cable. The materials used, build quality, and ease of mind knowing that I'm NOT missing anything were worth it.

 

[pjw241142]

OK, that's worth knowing.

I'll let you know when I have tried this myself.

 

[Golden Monkey]

Keep in mind that a lot of folks, when they spend a lot of money on a cable, really WANT to hear huge differences, and will tend to describe the new cable in flowery prose, and use terms like "dramatic", "amazing", blah blah blah...like I said, recabling DOES make a difference (and with some phones, farily large differences, but we're talking Senn 6x0's here), but if you go for a recable, this should be pretty much the last step in your upgrade chain. You're going to get much more out of them by upgrading your amp first, source second, and cables last...

 

[glitch39]

with this thread, gotta get me an HD600 now just to compare the "NEW" 650 with the classic 600.

 

[Golden Monkey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by glitch39 /img/forum/go_quote.gif with this thread, gotta get me an HD600 now just to compare the "NEW" 650 with the classic 600.

Don't...you...dare...

On second thought, if you do, get three pairs. One to keep stock, one to try Alex's mods on...and one to sell to me cheap when you're done

 

[kg21]

one thing I'm skeptical of is that the hd650 is the superior phone but needs "proper amping." It's been mentioned many times and even in this thread. The people that say it are members I respect and agree with in a lot of other things headphone wise. I just think if you have to spend thousands of dollars and fully balance a headphone for it to sound "right" it's a cop out. I think it's just about preference, you can get equipment to improve on the weaknesses of the hd650 and it won't be "veiled" but you could also get equipment to improve on the hd600 and I think they are on the same level. I used both with a tube amp and didn't hear a veil either way, soundwise I agree with the general conclusions: hd600 balanced/neutral sound but still warm, hd650 more bass and darker/smoother and also warm. The hd600 I had was recabled, the hd650 was the "new version."

 

[Golden Monkey]

Oh, it definitely comes down to preference, but the fact remains that the HD650 just scales so damn well with the right (note: not BETTER, just right...) equipment. Sure, they can sound fantastic with a solid state amp, they can sound great unamped (if that's the only way you've heard them). It's not a flaw in the phone that they require great amping...think of it like a good car. A Honda is a good car. A Ferrari is a good car. Are they the same? No. Do they do the same things? Essentially, yes.