For those of you that have tried or own the two Kings....... HE90 / R10

[DavidMahler]

For those of you that have spent extensive time with the HE90 and the R10, which do you prefer overall. Just wondering.....and if you could include a little note about why you prefer whichever one you prefer......go ahead

Also please if you can, specify whether your comparison includes a Balanced R10 or a Single Ended R10

Dave

 

[vcoheda]

should be an interesting thread, assuming people who have owned or listened to both extensively respond.

 

[Wmcmanus]

HE90 for me but I've always been an electrostat kind of guy, speakers included. But it's close. They are my favorite 2 headphones, followed by the K1000.

The HE90/HEV90 is about as good as it gets, although I'm told that the ES-1 takes it a little further, but I'll just have to keep waiting for Mikhail to get around to finishing mine. It just does everything so effortlessly, so crisp and clear and open sounding. I can't really find fault with the Orpheus system with a top notch source.

The R10 of course has the seductive mids and an uncanny ability to extract details without making them stick out in the presentation like out of place (i.e., the extra detail of the R10 relative to other dynamic cans don't come across as oddities or artifacts). Everything about the R10 presentation is so "musical"; they just suck you into the presentation.

But then again I could say the same thing about the HE90. I think the main difference is that the HE90 wins on overall crispness whereas the R10 wins on the overall romantic, alluring factor. So it depends of which you're more drawn to and opinions will obviously differ.

There are people who prefer the L3000 to the R10 because of the added bass response and PRaT factor that the L3000 brings to play. Not as romantic or euphonic as the R10, but has more pop and sizzle, and thus a better (more impactful and awe inspirng) pair of headphones for dynamic swings and that sort of thing.

This discussion could then lead into the PS-1 for it ginormous and untra clean and coherent bass response (talk about holding a deep note through the last moment of decay!), or to the Qualia 010 for their ability to give you a microscopic view of the inner detail of the music and absolutely lightning speed, or to the K1000 (properly amped, which isn't easy) for an obviously unmatched soundstage (its kind of an unfair fight there) and nearly as much quickness as the Qualia 010 and nearly as much crispness as the HE90.

So it's not as though the HE90 and R10 are in a league of their own, though I would agree that generally speaking, they are widely regarded as being "best of class" in their respective categories.

I've never really heard the R10 balanced, but I did hear the HD650 balanced on a Singlepower SDS-XLR several years ago at a meet in Florida, and then again in New York, and the HD650 are completely different animals when run in balanced mode in the SDS-XLR. So by extension, I'm expecting the same to be true of the R10 balanced on the SDS-XLR but of course I'm also still waiting (forever and a day) for my SDS-XLR. So I don't know... it's getting to be quite frustrating, but that's life I guess.

My R10 listening has been mostly on my Angstrom Research Two Box (a one off amp that I bought from Nik). It's bar none, by far, the best single ended dynamic headphone amp I've ever heard and it really brings the R10 into full life. I know from my detailed comparisons of the HD650 in single ended versus balanced when run off the same amp (SDS-XLR) that the R10 can and will get much better when run off a off top notch balanced amp, but that too remains to be seen.

 

[ast]

there is no comparison. HE90 is way more natural/neutral, has better soundstage, bass, and details. R10 is very colored in comparison, although it is one of the most open "closed cans" out there.

 

[pabbi1]

I have heard Wayne's HE90 and R10 - not enough time to give the R-10 a fair shake. However, what I have not heard is the HE90 through ES-1 (but have with OII, and Wayne you are in for a treat), nor the R-10 balanced (though Alex might be able to help with that shortly).

I also think the BH might be even better than the ES-1, but not what we are discussing...

My vote was for the HE90 (given my favoring the hE60 sound sig), but am keeping an eye out for some R-10, should the circumstance present itself. I am ok with owning both.

 

[vcoheda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pabbi1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am ok with owning both.

i would be okay with that as well.

 

[nc8000]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif i would be okay with that as well.

Me too but that's likely never going to happen let alone even trying the HE90. I do however (though from only brief trying at a meet so not ideal conditions) prefer the L3000 to the R10.

 

[Meyvn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wmcmanus /img/forum/go_quote.gif HE90 for me but I've always been an electrostat kind of guy, speakers included. But it's close. They are my favorite 2 headphones, followed by the K1000. The HE90/HEV90 is about as good as it gets, although I'm told that the ES-1 takes it a little further, but I'll just have to keep waiting for Mikhail to get around to finishing mine. It just does everything so effortlessly, so crisp and clear and open sounding. I can't really find fault with the Orpheus system with a top notch source. The R10 of course has the seductive mids and an uncanny ability to extract details without making them stick out in the presentation like out of place (i.e., the extra detail of the R10 relative to other dynamic cans don't come across as oddities or artifacts). Everything about the R10 presentation is so "musical"; they just suck you into the presentation. But then again I could say the same thing about the HE90. I think the main difference is that the HE90 wins on overall crispness whereas the R10 wins on the overall romantic, alluring factor. So it depends of which you're more drawn to and opinions will obviously differ. There are people who prefer the L3000 to the R10 because of the added bass response and PRaT factor that the L3000 brings to play. Not as romantic or euphonic as the R10, but has more pop and sizzle, and thus a better (more impactful and awe inspirng) pair of headphones for dynamic swings and that sort of thing. This discussion could then lead into the PS-1 for it ginormous and untra clean and coherent bass response (talk about holding a deep note through the last moment of decay!), or to the Qualia 010 for their ability to give you a microscopic view of the inner detail of the music and absolutely lightning speed, or to the K1000 (properly amped, which isn't easy) for an obviously unmatched soundstage (its kind of an unfair fight there) and nearly as much quickness as the Qualia 010 and nearly as much crispness as the HE90. So it's not as though the HE90 and R10 are in a league of their own, though I would agree that generally speaking, they are widely regarded as being "best of class" in their respective categories. I've never really heard the R10 balanced, but I did hear the HD650 balanced on a Singlepower SDS-XLR several years ago at a meet in Florida, and then again in New York, and the HD650 are completely different animals when run in balanced mode in the SDS-XLR. So by extension, I'm expecting the same to be true of the R10 balanced on the SDS-XLR but of course I'm also still waiting (forever and a day) for my SDS-XLR. So I don't know... it's getting to be quite frustrating, but that's life I guess. My R10 listening has been mostly on my Angstrom Research Two Box (a one off amp that I bought from Nik). It's bar none, by far, the best single ended dynamic headphone amp I've ever heard and it really brings the R10 into full life. I know from my detailed comparisons of the HD650 in single ended versus balanced when run off the same amp (SDS-XLR) that the R10 can and will get much better when run off a off top notch balanced amp, but that too remains to be seen.

I'd just like to second Wayne's opinion that there really isn't an undisputed king of all headphones. It really does come down to personal taste at the end of it. Obviously there are technical aspects that any of the high end phones do extraordinarily well, but it doesn't mean that it's your thing.

 

[blubliss]

Although I do not have extensive time yet, i do have some thoughts. I did not vote because i am not sure i prefer one over the other. I think it is more of a different flavor issue.

The HE90/ES-2 has an incredible amount of impact, unbelievably dynamic. The combo is very musical and engaging. Is it the only thing i will want to listen to? No. There is such a vast difference in recording quality, type of music, personal moods, that other headphones will definitely be my choice at times.

The balanced R10/SDS-XLR is an amazing combo and is very different from single-ended. (I only listened single-ended with the MPX i used to have.) This combo is smoother and more natural at times. I think it may be the king of the classical genre . I can't compare directly because the SDS-XLR had to go back when I got the ES-2, so more comparisons will come in the future. (I have a loop-out on the ES-2 so i will be able to do good comparisons when the SDS returns.)

Now, there are certainly times when i will listen to the L3000 balanced over the other two. It is so easy to listen to for hours, no fatigue. Plus, it is the best for most rock, IMO.

Just my $.02.

 

[Quint]

A friend of mine recently brought over his HE90/ES-1 combo, and I liked it, though not as much as my balanced B-52/R10 setup. But at this level, it’s largely more about preferences than objective superiority.

 

[vcoheda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quint /img/forum/go_quote.gif I liked it, though not as much as my balanced B-52/R10 setup.

damn. i want that combo. sounds killer. i don't recall if you have posted any pics of your setup. i would like to see that.

 

[Canman]

Two incredible cans, so hard to choose. I have a soft spot for the R10 (single-ended) due to the way it presents a panoramic soundstage but the HE90 is slightly more transparent. I'd probably choose the HE90 but I'd be happy with either.

 

[Wmcmanus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canman /img/forum/go_quote.gif Two incredible cans, so hard to choose. I have a soft spot for the R10 (single-ended) due to the way it presents a panoramic soundstage but the HE90 is slightly more transparent. I'd probably choose the HE90 but I'd be happy with either.

Or, as your signature says, K1000 -> Music. That one works too! With my EAR V20 amp, the K1000 is totally amazing and hard to put down once I get started with it.

 

[bozebuttons]

I own them both & the problem with saying one is better then the other is in the right system they are both equal,just differant.

What they do better then any other headphone is suck you into the music & let you forget about the gear without breaking a sweat.

 

[Fing]

In my currently under-amped setup (Yamamoto -> R10, Stax SRM-T1 -> HE90), the R10 wins because the I find them more musically involving.

The HE90 is very, very, very good. Very transparent, balanced and easy, but too smooth. Not quite "grippy" enough. I fall asleep listening to them very easily

The bass-heavy R10 and Yamamoto has very good synergy. Not the greatest soundstage but again, very transparent with a touch more tone and dynamics. Effortlessly involving.