[mordy]

That's a good tip, thanks. The A2293 data sheet states "low impedance" so I wonder if their use in Feliks Elise or Euforia would be a win for running lower impedance headphones, a potential Achilles heel of Elise / Euphoria due to their generally high output impedance. @mordy , any thoughts?

If I used the GEC A2293 I would need four or eight tubes in my amp and I already have the GEC 6AS7G tubes so I didn’t feel the need to try them.
Except for my Sennheiser HD201 headphones (24 ohm) i don’t have any low impedance headphones so can’t be of much help.
I do have the Cetron 6336B 5A tubes that are supposed to be good for low impedance headphones but the Elise/Euforia can’t use them unless you use external power.

 

[LoryWiv]

If I used the GEC A2293 I would need four or eight tubes in my amp and I already have the GEC 6AS7G tubes so I didn’t feel the need to try them.
Except for my Sennheiser HD201 headphones (24 ohm) i don’t have any low impedance headphones so can’t be of much help.
I do have the Cetron 6336B 5A tubes that are supposed to be good for low impedance headphones but the Elise/Euforia can’t use them unless you use external power.

Hi @mordy. Not necessarily 4 or 8, A2293 one can just stay well below the total heater current limit and use one per socket. Currently I am running 2 Ken-Rad 6Y6 powers and 2 Brimar 6V6 drivers in Elise, total heater current 3.4 and does not sound "anemic" at all. If one chose to use 4 GEC A2293 noting heater current 0.95 per tube, total draw would be 3.6.

So to me not necessary to use more than 2 or 4, unless I am misunderstanding your comment.

 

[bcowen]

Maybe the Winged-C's are inconsistent, I got a pair with Elise, put about 200 hours on them and still didn't em at all, soundstage wasn't impressive, treble was annoying, nothing spectacular when it comes to mids, it sounds overall weird and unappealing to me, except for the bass, that's really tight and snappy.

Also got second pair with Euphoria, but didn't both even trying them out after experience with the first pair.

The GEC 6AS7G is just very well balanced, solid soundstage, overall effortless yet detailed sound, there is no harshness, it's perfect mix.

TS 5998 is also amazing but it has booster bottom end and compared to GEC it sounds somewhat bloated to my ears. Soundstage is good on these, similar to GEC I'd say. But it's not as smooth overall either.

I should point out that these observations are mostly when using it with HD650, because that's just what I enjoy the most.

I'd just recommend trying anything other than the Winged C's. Some other 6AS7G's might be also great pick, I only recently got first pair othe than the GEC's and I think those are amazing for the price. But there seems to be a lot of variation from what I read, so might be hit or miss situation.

In the end I think 5998's won't dissapoint you. The GEC's are sure worth considering, if you don't mind burning 500$+ for some decent pair.

My experience (in my amp) with the Winged C's is that 70's / 80's production needs a warm driver tube, like a gray glass RCA 6SN7. Even with that, not my favorite tube to be honest. I think your description of the treble being "annoying" states it perfectly -- not that it's necessarily bright or fatiguing, it just doesn't sound natural and constantly calls your attention to it. The 1950s production tubes are much, much better. Still not favorites personally, but they are pretty decent tubes all around with better treble, and not too long ago you could still get them pretty cheap.

 

[gibosi]

My experience (in my amp) with the Winged C's is that 70's / 80's production needs a warm driver tube, like a gray glass RCA 6SN7. Even with that, not my favorite tube to be honest. I think your description of the treble being "annoying" states it perfectly -- not that it's necessarily bright or fatiguing, it just doesn't sound natural and constantly calls your attention to it. The 1950s production tubes are much, much better. Still not favorites personally, but they are pretty decent tubes all around with better treble, and not too long ago you could still get them pretty cheap.

I would agree. I'm currently running 6N5S, mid 1950's, with a Philips Holland-made rectifier and a couple Tung-Sol triodes and it is surprisingly good (to my old and worn out ears).

 

[bpiotrow13]

Re: GEC. I’ve never heard a GEC 6AS7 or 6080 but pairs of A2293s with the eBay adapter are practically free in comparison and sound really good. GEC quality at an ECG price if you will.

Have the same, but it looks kind of strange with this adapter

 

[bpiotrow13]

SO you suggest changing the driver tube first? Currently, my driver tube is the one that comes with euforia. PsVane CV-181 Mk2 “Gold”. what good driver tube to upgrade from this. I prefer good stage and depth. neutral kind. not too warm.

It is not a bad tube and it sounds as You describe so maybe no upgrade is necessary

 

[bpiotrow13]

Good question! But I would not worry to much - we are all using tubes that are 50 years old and older!

True, i have just bought driver mullards produced in 1955. Almost 80 years old!

 

[Alson Chua]

It is not a bad tube and it sounds as You describe so maybe no upgrade is necessary

Yup true. I decided to get 5998 and keep the PSvane

 

[Odin412]

True, i have just bought driver mullards produced in 1955. Almost 80 years old!

I think it's cool to be able to buy old stuff that still works. I recently bought a tube that was made in 1943 and still works perfectly. They built things to last back then.

 

[mordy]

Hi @mordy. Not necessarily 4 or 8, A2293 one can just stay well below the total heater current limit and use one per socket. Currently I am running 2 Ken-Rad 6Y6 powers and 2 Brimar 6V6 drivers in Elise, total heater current 3.4 and does not sound "anemic" at all. If one chose to use 4 GEC A2293 noting heater current 0.95 per tube, total draw would be 3.6.

So to me not necessary to use more than 2 or 4, unless I am misunderstanding your comment.

My amp uses dual triodes for the power tubes and always in pairs. The A2293 is a single triode and therefore I would need two dual adapters and four tubes to replicate two dual triodes. If you have an amp that just uses one driver tube and one power tube you only need one pair of the A2293 tubes.

 

[CAJames]

I think it's cool to be able to buy old stuff that still works. I recently bought a tube that was made in 1943 and still works perfectly. They built things to last back then.

Yeah, I somehow doubt they are going to be saying that about Windows laptops in 80 years... .

 

[LoryWiv]

My amp uses dual triodes for the power tubes and always in pairs. The A2293 is a single triode and therefore I would need two dual adapters and four tubes to replicate two dual triodes. If you have an amp that just uses one driver tube and one power tube you only need one pair of the A2293 tubes.

Point taken, @mordy, thanks for clarifying!

 

[jonathan c]

Yeah, I somehow doubt they are going to be saying that about Windows laptops in 80 years... .

My abacus works fine!

 

[No Deal]

I admittedly do not understand one tube tester's readings vs the next. It has been a while since I had a need to test a tube. Can someone tell me what an acceptable for purchase reading would be for a TV7 tested 421A?

 

[CAJames]

I admittedly do not understand one tube tester's readings vs the next. It has been a while since I had a need to test a tube. Can someone tell me what an acceptable for purchase reading would be for a TV7 tested 421A?

According to my TV-7D/U chart the minimum reading is "40" which is a Gm of 5000. The test data for a 421A is a little different from a 6AS7/6080. Of course how tube tester readings correspond to audio performance is a whole different discussion