[MirandaX]

Quote:

Originally posted by fewtch The noise shaping (if it's predictive) will be correct for whatever signal is fed to the DAC... period.

That's right, it is the correct noise shaping for "whatever signal is fed to the DAC." Problem is, if that signal is some junk perversion of the original music (i.e. a 14-bit signal padded with two junk bits), you get noise shaping based on that junk, not the original music.

The DAC isn't getting a clean 14-bit signal; if it was, the noise shaping algorithm would produce correct results for that signal. Instead, the DAC is getting a 14-bit signal masquerading as a 16-bit signal. If there were some way of telling the DAC to ignore the trailing two bits, noise shaping would work correctly. Unfortunately, there isn't a way to tell it to ignore those two bits.

This discussion is academic anyway. If you believe that it's fine to listen to a music program that outputs essentially a 14-bit signal, and that such a signal sounds just as good as the original, correct, 16-bit signal, fine. More power to you. If you have good measurement equipment and insist that your sources don't just sound good, but also measure well, you'll want the 16-bit signal.

 

[blueice]

Yeh, thanks for the help, the sound definitely become better using kernel streaming. I am using winxp and built in sound card btw.

Now more question, I saw fewtch speaking something of dither. From the software it says dither is not recommend for above 16 bits, since I am right at 16 bits, do I turn it on? which of dither mode is the best?

How about replay gain mode?

I think that's all. thx

sorry for hijacking the thread pbirkett.

 

[fewtch]

With straight 16-bit playback (and no upsampling to 48KHz or whatever), you shouldn't need dither... the music was already dithered before being recorded to CD. It probably won't hurt, but will add a bit of extra low level noise that really isn't necessary. Try it if you like, if it sounds better to you then use it -- my guess is that you won't hear any difference.

Some people say that noise shaped dither is best, but I personally prefer standard dither in most cases (which is just a tiny bit of hiss added at very quiet levels). The noise added with noise shaping is usually louder than with regular dither, but at the same time is at frequencies that aren't too audible (like around 19-20 KHz). Your choice.

If you have an option for dithering bit depth, try 1 bit with standard dither, and 0.5 to 0.9 bits for noise shaping.

 

[pbirkett]

Quote:

Originally posted by ProFingerSk8er hum...intersting, i hear much difference between winamp and foobar, foobar has clearer sound and winamp's just sounds dull with or without equalizer

Thats what I thought until Foobar started screwing up on me and I switch back to Winamp. Now I dont think theres much difference and if there is its that niggle at the back of my mind telling me that foobar is better when really it isnt.

That being said, I wouldnt mind an ASIO driver to try on Winamp although whether it will make any difference I dont know, and I cant find one to download anyway.

 

[lan]

Quote:

Originally posted by pbirkett That being said, I wouldnt mind an ASIO driver to try on Winamp although whether it will make any difference I dont know, and I cant find one to download anyway.

Otachan has one

http://www3.cypress.ne.jp/otachan/

I don't think he's making one for Winamp2 anymore? *shrug*. I don't know anything about Winamp5 and if it's plugin works for ver.2.

 

[hi_jack]

I've been using Foobar for about 6 months, after switching from Winamp 2.91 (couldn't tell the difference with the MAD decoder).

I can tell quite a difference with with kernel streaming output on Foobar.

Again this is all $.02. I also find ReplayGain much more to my liking than MP3 gain. Seems easier to use; don't know that I can tell the difference. The fact that Replay Gain is merely adding header information as opposed to changing the whole file (is this correct?) SEEMS more 'correct' in it's implementation.

The one thing I really really miss (and still use Winamp for from time to time.) is the bounty of Visualization plugins. I'm a junky for it, sue me.

So to get the best sound out of Winamp, I purchased Ozone for Winamp. To my tin ears, it allows me to tweak the sound, for fun mainly) to the optimal settings. Gives me the most detailed options for a DSP (consumer) that I've EVER seen anywhere. (What am I going to do with this pair of MDR605LP's anyway?) Aiee!!!)

Bests.

 

[grinch]

i used to a/b when i still had winamp installed and foobar always came out on top. i didn't go parading around that there are gigantic differences, but i did feel it was better.

i never listen to computer audio without an external dac though.


foobar is the best audio player out, plane and simple. it sounds awesome and is very well-written technically. it's simple, yet very customizable interface is just damn awesome. i've been using it since 0.17 prebeta or something and really adore it. the later versions seem to be getting better and better, especially with its handling of mp4, flac, ape, and cue files.

 

[elnero]

Quote:

Originally posted by grinch i used to a/b when i still had winamp installed and foobar always came out on top. i didn't go parading around that there are gigantic differences, but i did feel it was better. i never listen to computer audio without an external dac though. foobar is the best audio player out, plane and simple. it sounds awesome and is very well-written technically. it's simple, yet very customizable interface is just damn awesome. i've been using it since 0.17 prebeta or something and really adore it. the later versions seem to be getting better and better, especially with its handling of mp4, flac, ape, and cue files.

Ditto

 

[Whit]

Quote:

I don't know anything about Winamp5 and if it's plugin works for ver.2.

The plugins for winamp 2 and 5 are supposed to be interchangeable. Check the version history of the asio plugin page and it shows all the old winamp 2 asio plugin version history. I'll try it out just to be sure though.

 

[D-EJ915]

Quote:

Originally posted by Whit winamp 2 and 5

Just a question...What's Winamp "5"

 

[Whit]

Quote:

Just a question...What's Winamp "5"

Winamp 5 is a mixture of the best elements of Winamp 2 and Winamp 3. Winamp 2 + Winamp 3 = Winamp 5

. It's currently still in development.

 

[yeeyy]

I am a satisfied Foobar2k user here, using v0.7.2, 32 bit with dithering enable, replay gain is disable, using Kernal Streaming output, soundcard is Audigy 1 w/ .441 driver.

 

[lan]

I don't think that's the ideal setup for the Audigy 1. I think it would be 16bit dithered output w/ 48khz resampling in DSP.

32bit doesn't make sense for any card as they only have 24bit DACs. Some drivers work best at 32bit so you'd use 24bit padded to 32bit. Dithering doesn't make sense at 24bit and higher.