Foobar > UA-1EX > X-CANS v3 > HD-650 = Music Heaven

Apr 4, 2006 at 2:02 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 17

DeBilbao

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I would like to express my gratitude to all the folks in this forum that have influenced me to go for my new hi-fi setup. In the beginning I was concerned about spending too much in it, but at the end, I convinced myself to go for the best-you-can-buy in one easy and fortunately successful step.

HFPC_Conjunto.jpg


And I was rewarded. Here's the story.

[size=medium]A brief introduction [/size]

I don't have a dedicated room for listening to music with a traditional hi-fi equipment so I'm forced into headphones listening. Maybe is this is the situation of many people around here. Maybe not, maybe is pure headphone vice isn't it?

I had started a few years ago into headphone listening, and thanks to the expert advice founded in this forum – once again – I bought a pair of Grado SR-80. They have a really nice sound, aren’t difficult to drive although they are not so comfortable, but have provided me with many hours of enjoyment.

To get you more focused, my musical tastes are varied, but to be honest Jazz is my main preference. Classical is winning interest and pop, rock and folk has their moments too. Music is marvellous in so many ways... But let's continue with the setup.

As you can guess by my nickname, I'm located in Bilbao, Spain and this is definitely a drawback. I don't have access to all of the equipment that you can reach in the USA. And If you find a vendor that ships to Spain, the shipping charges make silly to buy many things in most cases.


[size=medium]In the beginning: It was the music[/size]

First of all, let's talk about the music. I have all my music ripped from my own CD's - or downloaded in APE or FLAC - and encoded in MP3 format using the Über Standards. Basically everything is VBR 224 LAME alt preset extreme. I think it's good quality, almost undistinguishable from the original CD. My opinion is that many times if a recording sounds bad is more a matter of the recording itself than the encoding process. If you use correctly EAC and LAME you're going to get good results. Maybe I should go for APE and FLAC, but I've found this kind of compression the most convenient, because I use two different kinds of sources: my computer and my iPod.

All my music is correctly tagged, classified by genre, with cover art, and really well organized in my iTunes Library. I iTunes is a great tool for organizing and browsing your music, though It’s not the best player around. But this can be fixed. Refer to the section where I discuss the player down below.

[size=medium]Source #1: My PC[/size]

I use a Windows XP based PC everyday, and if I look into myself, the more complicated thing is to have time, time to enjoy your music, so that's why I decided to put my PC into the setup and consider it as a valid source. I think of my PC as a highly configurable source. If you find the correct setup, you can really get very good sound. It's also easier to mess things up, because you still use the PC for many other things, installing new programs, but I think I've found the correct combination of elements. Sounds kind’ a magic but it's the reality.


[size=medium]Source #1: The Audio Card[/size]

HFPC_Edirol_UA1EX.jpg


I wanted to put the soundcard out of the box, first of all to get rid of the nasty sounds that many electronic components have and also because if it's detachable, it's easy to move it from one PC to another. Until now I was using a Terratec Sixpack 5.1+ and it sounded good, but it was affected by this kind of sounds. I decided to go for the Edirol UA-1EX by Roland. It has every feature I was looking for. Analogue input and output, optical input and output, a headphone output with volume control and a microphone input. It's also ASIO 2.0 compatible, and it's capable to operate in 24 bit/ 96 KHz. The driver installs without problems, and it's really easy to switch back and forth between soundcards using the control panel.

The card operates completely silent. No audible hisses, it’s just there waiting to receive a digital signal to convert it to the best analogue output it’s capable to produce.

[size=medium]Source #1: The player [/size]

IMHO foobar200 is the best player around. No discussion. But I think is arguable that it cannot compete with iTunes in terms of ease of use and richness of features right out of the box. How to combine the best of both? You get Multi Plug-In v2.3.2 and you’re done. You use iTunes and the sound reproduction is passed through foobar2000, were you can select every tweak available. I currently have selected in the DSP Manager the crosfeed filter, the Gap killer and the Resampler (PPHS) to upsample the signal to 48 KHz in Ultra mode.

The result is best of those worlds. Every record in your collection is right at your fingertips, just a click away. Reproduction is flawless, smooth and clean, just as you wanted it to be.

[size=medium]Source #2: The iPod [/size]

As an alternate source, I’ve considered my 5th generation iPod video. This is 30 GB of portable music that goes always with me. If I drive – and I make a thousand kilometres a week – my iPod is plugged into my car setup using the Paser interface (more on this another day if you like). And when I move to my house at the beach for a weekend or on summer, I can carry easily the whole setup, except the PC, so the iPod counts.

I have the Universal Dock and the remote control. They are really cool devices but aren’t thought in terms of sound quality. The analogue line-out provided by the universal dock is passed through a kind of pre-amplifier so you can regulate the volume with the remote. It’s useful but it really affects the quality of sound.

That’s why I decided to connect the iPod with the Sendstation PocketDock Line Out USB. It’s a tiny device that just does the job. It provides an ‘unaltered’ analogue line-out and also a USB or Firewire connection so you can connect your iPod to any regular USB or Firewire cable. It’s really a must.

[size=medium]Before the amp: Cable interconnects [/size]

The only thing you need before getting into the amplifier is a cable. I’m not a believer in cable magic, so I use a pair of Profigold 2x RCA cable for the audio card and an I-don’t-know-the-brand-but-apparently-good 3.5mm jack to 2x RCA cable for the iPod. Maybe I should try a small investment in cabling.

[size=medium]The amplifier: Musical Fidelity X-CAN v3 [/size]

I could try this before actually buying it. My first contact with the valve technology, and coming from the Grado sound, was disconcerting. I translated the smoothness of the sound into lack o brightness. Now I know that I was wrong. I will go on this later when I discuss the sound of the setup, but I’m sure of this.

The X-CAN v3 is very well built; the only drawback I’ve found is the absence of an on-off switch. In the search of the best path of the electrical signal MF has eliminated this and it’s really an inconvenience to have to unplug the unit to turn it off.

[size=medium]The cans: Sennheiser HD-650 [/size]

I think they are the jewel of the crown in my setup. Everything is responsible of the sound achieved, but these are definitely the element that has most influence in the result. They produce a beautiful sound and they are incredibly comfortable. You can get them on for hours and don’t even notice that they are still over your head.

[size=medium]The result: I’m in Music Heaven [/size]

Maybe you think that I’m overexcited with my new setup. Maybe I’m. But the fact is that what I listen when I press the play button really the music really thrills me. I’m – like many of you – the kind of guy that feels the music and get into the musical experience that the author, the band, the composer, or whoever is responsible of the magic I’m listening to intended to do.

The absolute silence that you can get when nothing is sounding is also remarkable. From the no hiss of the soundcard, to the dead quiet amplifier, to the absolutely comfortable closeness of the headphones, everything is in its right place to make you feel the music. Get a good recording and you’re in heaven.

The sound is very detailed, the highs are crystal clear and the mids, what can I say when I listen to a voice? perfect. And the bass is there - it wasn't in the Grados, i must admit it - and now I can feel how the bassist pinch the string. Extension? I didn't know the meaning until now. I think it's the ability to mantain a note. Try this with the subtle notes from a piano and you will discard many headphones.

No more on the adjectives. I describe myself more as a music lover than as an audiophile. That's why I'm not going to use more of the usual terms you use for describing the performance of the system. But I'm sure that I will find the meaning of them now that I have this nice setup.

Another curiosity is the fact that since I’ve started using it I have re-discovered classical music. This is the most difficult genre to reproduce and having the right gear let you enjoy the brutal dynamic range of this music. From now on, I’m going to invest in classical music for sure.

Of course, feel free to make any suggestion you could think it would improve the overall quality of the setup.

For my listening tests I use a bunch of CD’s that are ‘reference’ for me not only in terms of the beautiful music, but also for being impeccable in quality of the recording itself. Here you have a brief selection of them:


To feel the Jazz masters as if you were there with them:

Louis Armstrong & Duke Ellington - The Great Summit: The Master Takes (Blue Note 1961)

e42936ls8he.jpg


To feel the beautifulness of the Bach cantatas

Johann Sebastian Bach: Actus Tragicus by Konrad Junghanel (Harmonia Mundi)

l53813bavcl.jpg


To feel the emotion of a great voice

Eva Cassidy - Songbird (Blix Street 1998)

d87971j83i5.jpg


To feel the sound of the acoustic guitar playing classical pieces:

Filomena Moretti – Bach, Dowland, Mudarra, Rodrigo, et al (Transart Live 2005)

Tr107%20200.jpg


To feel like if you were transported to the Himalayas

Jan Garbarek – Ragas & Sagas (ECM 1992)

e24497w0nxs.jpg
 
Apr 4, 2006 at 8:13 PM Post #2 of 17
Thanks for the nice post, I've been reading it with interest. I've been toying with a PC jukebox for years, and we have arrived at very similar solutions.
Me: foobar > Terratec USB > Bada PH-1 amp > Sennheiser 600.

Although... you may be in heaven, but you ain't got no wings
plainface.gif


Imagine: late at night, you lazily hang on your couch, candle burns, wine is at the right temperature, and with eyes closed you listen to your new Himalaya album. Now, you discover that track 7-12 is "mating songs of the Yeti" and you really really can't stand that.
What do you do? Get up and fiddle around with the PC to put on another album? To me, in that situation, that's totally annoying and kills the mood.

The best $150 I've spent on my setup: a used web pad from eBay (Siemens SimPad), small enough to hold in one hand; it is my front end for the jukebox. It's way way WAY more convenient to choose your music that way, with five lazy taps of your index finger you can put on any song you want. I never want to miss that again, I'd spend $1000 if there was no other option.

Another piece of hardware I would buy again: a dedicated PC for the jukebox. $70 for a VIA EPIA board, $40 for a nice small case, $20 for 256MB, and a harddisk - and you never again have to worry about killing your jukebox if you tinker around on your workstation. It's near-silent, too, and makes a very nice 22 Watt eMule host.

Enjoy the music
j
 
Apr 5, 2006 at 6:01 AM Post #3 of 17
Firstly thanks for posting a nice thorough post. It was nice to read. I noticed you are using X-Can v3 for amping. I am planning to complete Musical Fidelity SmallX series next summer and I think your setup would benefit from it too.

X-Dac v3 for the d/a conversion would work nicely as you have solid soundgard with optical out. Then you could also get X-Psu v3 as power supply. It has an on/off switch and it works with both X-Can and X-Dac plus two other SmallX series device by improving their performance. If you want to go further you could also get X-10 v3. It is a tube output buffer that basically makes the sound more enjoyable.

The best thing about the SmallX series is that you can upgrade it piece by piece without having to necessarily spend lots of money at once. You also learn to hear the difference if you update bit by bit and increase your hifi knowledge.

Regarding interconnectors I would recommend Supra cables for starters, because they are quite cheap (around 50€) and give noticeable improvement to dynamics and low end. Some bulk interconnectors also tend to diminish the high end and with Supra they work also fine. I myself am going to upgrade to Analysis Plus interconnectors later on when I upgrade my setup for the complete SmallX series. Analysis Plus has many options for cables price-wise and what I have heard they have very neutral sound.

Atm. I am enjoying my setup also very much and I think everyone should be happy and able to enjoy the music with the equipment they feel good about. You can get very good sound out without spending too much money and upgrading and by doing so improving sound makes the hobby worthy. I hope you good times with your setup and upgrading in the future.
 
Apr 5, 2006 at 11:40 PM Post #4 of 17
I have put together a bedside rig with the X-Can V3 and Senn HD600 as the main components. I thought I could not be happier, well I was wrong.

I visited PinkFloyd's website (http://www.rock-grotto.co.uk/xcanpropage.htm) and saw the various mods he makes and decided I wanted the same mods on my amp.

I pondered on how to achieve it and after some discussions with PinkFloyd my amp was converted with all his mods. I then ordered a pair of russian 6H23-EB valves and Herbie's Halos in nickel alloy (http://herbiesaudiolab.home.att.net/).

All I can say is "Oh my God". The base is tighter, the amp is more refined and detailed, basically it is fantastic.
 
Apr 6, 2006 at 8:00 AM Post #6 of 17
Thank you very much for your answers. It's nice feedback that you've enjoyed the reading of my experience. I must admit that I also enjoyed writing it. There are so many well worked posts around here that I couldn't say just a few words.

I will keep this post into my favourites URL's as a reference to possible upgrade paths. Right now I'm happy enough so I will just enjoy my new setup.

Just a question about ASIO, foobar and my EDIROL UA-1EX.

I've concluded that the only way of getting ASIO working is to send to the UA-1EX an signal resampled (up-sampled to be more correct) to 96 KHz in 32 fixed-point format. This is the native resolution of the UA-1EX. I've also had to select the use direct input monitor.

My PC is not slow, it's a Pentium IV 2.6 GHz with 1 GB RAM and when it's playing in ASIO output mode I could notice that the system can't cope with the proccessing. If I don't touch anything it's OK, but If I try to do something else the PC is very slow down.

Maybe there's a trick, maybe not. Any suggestions?
 
Apr 6, 2006 at 4:06 PM Post #7 of 17
Ask Roland's support, they should know. In the feature list of the UA-1EX it says: "Sampling rate switch (32/44.1/48/96 kHz)", so I suggest you take a look at the card's control panel first.
 
Apr 7, 2006 at 7:26 AM Post #8 of 17
Quote:

Ask Roland's support, they should know. In the feature list of the UA-1EX it says: "Sampling rate switch (32/44.1/48/96 kHz)", so I suggest you take a look at the card's control panel first.


Thanks sgrossklass. I think I've been blinded by the enthusiasm. In the bottom of the soundcard there is a dip switch selector to setup the sampling rate and you can choose among the frequencies you say.

I've changed the samping rate to 48 KHz and it works with ASIO without problem, but I'm still feeling the extra CPU cycles.

As far as muy music is encoded from CD's that in origin are 16 bit / 44.1 KHz, what's the benefit of upsampling? I will try to setup some kind of blind tests but if the difference is not clear, I think i won't be upsamplig because the PC is more usable without it.
 
Apr 7, 2006 at 1:49 PM Post #9 of 17
Quote:

Originally Posted by DeBilbao
As far as muy music is encoded from CD's that in origin are 16 bit / 44.1 KHz, what's the benefit of upsampling? I will try to setup some kind of blind tests but if the difference is not clear, I think i won't be upsamplig because the PC is more usable without it.


Same here - and my PC is a lot slower than yours still. The only potential advantage of upsampling I can see is that you're using the anti-imaging filter of the upsampler instead of what's inside the DAC. An exception would be oversampling, i.e. upsampling to a multiple of the original fs, which could be done with S&H (just replicate sample values n times for a factor of n) - then one could benefit from the higher-bandwidth interpolation lowpass at n*fs. It may still be that I'm missing something here, as I'm not quite sure how this would look in the frequency domain yet.
 
Apr 8, 2006 at 4:44 AM Post #10 of 17
How are you doing? Congratulations on your setup. The important thing's your happy.

How does the UA-1EX headphone amp perform? I mean not only comparing it with the X-cans v3, but also between hd650 and lower impedance cans.
As far as upsampling, I don't like the idea. As I don't understand why it would be good, I choose to have the sampling unchanged: CDs are 44.1 then 44.1 out.
Does the UA-1EX work well with DVDs, let's say 48khz AC3 files, etc.?
Does it make any noise by beeing on (like fan noise)?
I have a Prodigy 7.1 LT (comparable to Revolution 7.1, probably better), and I was contemplating the UA-1EX since connections would be much better (I have quite a strange setup).
Thanks
 
Apr 8, 2006 at 6:11 AM Post #11 of 17
sgrossklass, how much of a downgrade would be going from my Prodigy 7.1 LT to the UA1-EX? I mean in soundquality?

DeBilbao, everytime you execute files of different sample: listening to music in 44.1khz and then you want to watch a movie which is in 48khz, you have to change the switch in the UA1-EX, disconnect and then reconnect it? That doesn't sound like too much fun for me. But, if there were no audible difference between 44.1khz and upsampling to 48khz (for music), then I guess one could leave it at 48khz always.
I just downloaded the user manual and it's a tempting little device, I wonder how good the sound quality is (and the headphone out) compared to PCI cards like mine, Emu 0404, etc.

Greetings
 
Apr 26, 2006 at 11:08 AM Post #12 of 17
Quote:

Originally Posted by Aryolkary
sgrossklass, how much of a downgrade would be going from my Prodigy 7.1 LT to the UA1-EX? I mean in soundquality?

DeBilbao, everytime you execute files of different sample: listening to music in 44.1khz and then you want to watch a movie which is in 48khz, you have to change the switch in the UA1-EX, disconnect and then reconnect it? That doesn't sound like too much fun for me. But, if there were no audible difference between 44.1khz and upsampling to 48khz (for music), then I guess one could leave it at 48khz always.
I just downloaded the user manual and it's a tempting little device, I wonder how good the sound quality is (and the headphone out) compared to PCI cards like mine, Emu 0404, etc.

Greetings



There are questions pending Aryolkary. I would like to answer them after making some tests. Let me see if I can get some time to make them and give you some clues.

Anyway, the Edirol UA-1EX is working wonderfully for me.
 
Apr 26, 2006 at 11:10 AM Post #13 of 17
The original idea has evolved, and I've come up with a fantastic setup. Recently I've found at a very interesting price an old equipment that I'm using actually as a preamp for my system. It's the Onkyo FR-435 and it offers in on single piece of hardware an amp, a RDS receiver, a CD player and a MiniDisc recorder. It also offers additional line-in.

As a standalone Hi-Fi setup is good, just plug a pair of speakers and you're ready to go. But I've connected the TAPE-OUT to the LINE-IN of the X-CAN v3 and now I can choose the source from it.

Add that I've connected the LINE-OUT of the Sendstation PocketDock of the iPod to the LINE-IN 1 of the FR-435 and the analog LINE-OUT of the Edirol UA-1EX to the LINE-IN 2 and I've come to such a degree of integration and flexibility that makes me really happy.

Even I've connected the LINE-OUT of the XCAN v3 to the analog LINE-IN of the Edirol UA-1EX so now I can record any source that I'm actually hearing with my Senn HD-650. I've tested the quality with Sony Soundforge 8 and is quite good.

The FR-435 even comes with a timer for deferred recording so I can record my favourite radio broadcast in MiniDisc or WAV and later on compress it into MP3 so I can listen it on the iPod (kinda manual Podcast)

I can actually choose from radio broadcasts, to CD, MiniDisc, iPod, foobar200 from the PC ... all a single click away.

Maybe I've added elements that influence in the final quality of the Sound, but I cannot perceive any quality loss. Sure it is there, but I cannot change the difference for the usefulness of my current setup.

Here you have some images so you can make an idea.

HiFi_PC_1.jpg


HiFi_PC_2.jpg
 
Sep 18, 2006 at 2:46 PM Post #14 of 17
Nice system!

I have 650s and a V2. I used to sell that receiver and as an all-in-one it is a nice machine!

I have a few questions, do you get ground looping problems from the edirol? Is the headphone out of the edirol itself a high standard? (I might like to drive HD565 (150ohm) or SR60's when I am away from my XCAN).
 
Jan 15, 2008 at 1:00 AM Post #15 of 17
Quote:

Originally Posted by lipidicman /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Nice system!

I have 650s and a V2. I used to sell that receiver and as an all-in-one it is a nice machine!

I have a few questions, do you get ground looping problems from the edirol? Is the headphone out of the edirol itself a high standard? (I might like to drive HD565 (150ohm) or SR60's when I am away from my XCAN).



Could somebody answer this question plz? I would like to connect my MS-1 to the headphone out as well.
 

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