[QueueCumber]

Widthness is a terrible thing with headphones. I do not hear a piano player playing straight in my left ear next to me in real life. I also do not hear a piano player playing straight into my left ear next to me with my speakers. So why should I be hearing this on a headphone?

Just because headphones have no soundstage, it is a good idea to try to make it sound bigger by making it more artificially wide. Two wrongs don’t make it right.

The Focal Utopia is more correct in terms of “soundstage” or whatever you want to call it.

And honestly, the difference between headphones like the HD 800 S and Utopia is really small in terms of “soundstage”. If you think this is a big difference, wait till you hear what speakers do.

“Correctness” would be coming close to the sound as laid out by a studio engineer. I doubt most studio engineers intended the sound to be squashed between your ears with instruments and vocals running all over each other. Usually they use studio monitor speakers to pan things across an artificial soundstage. That is, if it’s not a live acoustic event that is mic’ed on an actual soundstage. In that case, they try to capture the event as realistically as possible within the limits of stereo technology.

Speakers and headphones (transducers) are best attempts at reproducing the original sound of an event or studio mix within the limitations inherent in all transducers.

 

[TSAVJason]

“Correctness” would be coming close to the sound as laid out by a studio engineer. I doubt most studio engineers intended the sound to be squashed between your ears with instruments and vocals running all over each other. Usually they use studio monitor speakers to pan things across an artificial soundstage. That is, if it’s not a live acoustic event that is mic’ed on an actual soundstage. In that case, they try to capture the event as realistically as possible within the limits of stereo technology.

Speakers and headphones (transducers) are best attempts at reproducing the original sound of an event or studio mix within the limitations inherent in all transducers.

Huh? You kinda go both ways there with your post. These 2 statements confused my understanding of your post. I feel like I’m missing something .... “the limitations inherent in all transducers” and “”within the limits of stereo technology” ....I understand what you are trying to sayin the first paragraph until the last sentence.

 

[mwr2700]

Can you specify some recordings which produce an expansive headstage from Utopia?

My usual tracks for testing this are various Loreena McKennit tracks, Van Morrison's Sweet Thing from Astral Weeks and most of Sgt. Peppers. Utopia headstage ends up seeming intimate and flat (2d).

I wonder if my (incoming) DSHA-3F will change the story -- I notice you have one.

I find the castanets and tambourine in the "Sentenza del Cuore" by the Coryells to give a very definite 3rd dimension with Utopias.

 

[QueueCumber]

Huh? You kinda go both ways there with your post. These 2 statements confused my understanding of your post. I feel like I’m missing something .... “the limitations inherent in all transducers” and “”within the limits of stereo technology” ....I understand what you are trying to sayin the first paragraph until the last sentence.

In short, the Utopia is Focal’s best attempt at reproducing a studio mix within the limits of transducer technology, and based on the goal of reproducing that studio mix with the greatest fidelity possible, i.e. as it was heard by the studio engineer while using studio monitor speakers, Focal has fallen short (i.e. due to a lack of “widthness”).

Albeit, if “correctness” (i.e. achieving fidelity to what the studio engineer heard) isn’t the goal, then it doesn’t matter. Basically, “correctness” isn’t the right word for the Focal Utopia when describing its “widthness.”

These made up words are going to give me an aneurism... lol

 

[ubs28]

I was a music producer in the past and also a live sound engineer for live performances and also there I noticed that the “soundstage” of headphones is way too wide.

For example, if I used the Access Virus TI in unison mode with 2 voices with stereo mode on 100%, my headphones (AKG 240) would give a signal dead left and dead right. On my studio monitors (ok, I admit these were not high-end as I was just a student back then) you do not hear that. So “soundstage” of these headphones were already too wide.

Also when I was mixing live events when the band is playing live on stage and you use headphones to do some minor tweaks to a channel, the “soundstage” on the headphone is totally off from the live event that you hear during the performance. A mic can be panned too much according to the headphones but if you are in the audience, it sounds great.

 

[QueueCumber]

It makes sense that if some HPs create a soundstage that is too squashed that some HPs create a soundstage that is too wide. Personally, I prefer HPs that sound relatively natural in width compared to my floorstanding speaker setups.

 

[pataburd]

Is it safe to make the generalisation that copper cables are better with the utopia?

Has anyone tried copper and silver cables and ended up choosing the silver cable?

The grand line lavricable (20 core silver) I bought may be a bit too bright for my tastes. I'm nowhere near the recommended 150 hr break in period, but if the end point remains somewhat similar, and a copper cable is better, I may just cut losses and jump camp to copper.

Am looking at the danacable lazuli reference which a lot of people seem to like.

I prefer/am using a HeadphoneLounge UP-OCC [all] silver cable with the Utopia. Silver takes a long time to settle down, but the wait has been rewarding.

 

[pataburd]

It makes sense that if some HPs create a soundstage that is too squashed that some HPs create a soundstage that is too wide. Personally, I prefer HPs that sound relatively natural in width compared to my floorstanding speaker setups.

The Focal Clear produce an uncanny--pun intended--sense of outboard "speaker realism" in my home theater room.

 

[Tobes]

And honestly, the difference between headphones like the HD 800 S and Utopia is really small in terms of “soundstage”. If you think this is a big difference, wait till you hear what speakers do.

Yes speakers are an entirely different game for soundstage and realism IMO.

 

[Progisus]

I prefer/am using a HeadphoneLounge UP-OCC [all] silver cable with the Utopia. Silver takes a long time to settle down, but the wait has been rewarding.

I have a Silver Dragon and Custom Cans low capacitance but keep returning to the stock cable. I seem to prefer the sound as designed on my cans and iems.

 

[pataburd]

It makes sense that if some HPs create a soundstage that is too squashed that some HPs create a soundstage that is too wide. Personally, I prefer HPs that sound relatively natural in width compared to my floorstanding speaker setups.

Yes speakers are an entirely different game for soundstage and realism IMO.

True.
From seven feet away, the modest KEF IQ10s, Martin Logan Dynamo subwoofer [driven by the Dussun T6] easily better all my headphones for soundstage realism.

 

[pataburd]

I have a Silver Dragon and Custom Cans low capacitance but keep returning to the stock cable. I seem to prefer the sound as designed on my cans and iems.

Might do a [single-ended] a/b later on. Have been amping/listening to the Utopia balanced out of the ecp DSHA-3F. Wish Focal had supplied a balanced cable with the Utopia, like they do with the Clear.

 

[up late]

i've said this before but if i want to experience "soundstage" from a stereo recording then i'll listen to loudspeakers. the utopia's razor sharp imaging may be why i don't find its presentation compressed.

 

[dontfeedphils]

i've said this before but if i want to experience "soundstage" from a stereo recording then i'll listen to loudspeakers. the utopia's razor sharp imaging may be why i don't find its presentation compressed.

+1

I've never heard a pair of headphones do staging like even the most modest speakers can muster, so for me it's not a huge worry. Like you said, for me the instrument separation combined with the excellent imaging means I never feel closed in or congested. Everything has it's space, and that space is extremely easy to identify.

 

[pataburd]

See my prior post about the Clear: they can be eerily "loudspeaker-like" in my home theater room.