Focal Utopia General Discussion
Mar 5, 2019 at 3:50 PM Post #10,216 of 20,433
Again, my comments were specific to the actual measurements

Measurements are only part of the story.
Many brands do not measure as well as others yet are so much more musical and engaging
 
Mar 5, 2019 at 3:52 PM Post #10,217 of 20,433
The MSB Reference DAC just won The Absolute Sound Product of the Year per the Jan 2019 issue. As you know, system matching is pretty important.

Just curious, which MSB DAC was it that you heard and what was the rest of the associated equipment in play?

It was playing the Premier DAC and Wilson Speakers. I've always thought MSB was over hyped; especially when price to performance came in. I still remember going to their booth at RMAF a few years back, and my mindset only was confirmed further. YMMV of course.
 
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Mar 5, 2019 at 3:53 PM Post #10,218 of 20,433
Measurements are only part of the story.
Many brands do not measure as well as others yet are so much more musical and engaging

When it comes to digital to analog conversion, measurements are a BIG part of the story. Brands who don't measure thoroughly are trying to hide their performance IME and rely on personal preferences of some of the listeners to cover for the shortfalls. If they had impressive data, then why wouldn't they want to share them?
 
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Mar 5, 2019 at 3:57 PM Post #10,219 of 20,433
Again, my comments were specific to the actual measurements and to the integrity of the digital to analog conversion and the corresponding distortion and performance. That point isn't up for argument unless you can show me data that says otherwise. With regards to personal preference, that's up for the individual (as per your comments). My comments were with regards to MY personal experiences (as they were clearly stated).

I'm pretty sure we've had this conversation before, but even the Mojo would beat out most $10k DAC on pure measurements because of Chord's approach. If you want to argue that the Mojo is a better DAC than the Rossini, that's a bridge you'll have to cross. The Dave isn't immune from the Objective 2 debate just because it costs $10k.

Hifi is about pleasing distortions, and all of these DAC's are so competent that tuning differences are the main reason why there's any deviation in output between DACs at all. In that regard, I do feel that Chord comes up short, and just isn't as engaging as Nagra or DCS's top products. If all you care about is a flat reproduction profile, there are far cheaper products that will get the job done.

MSB is extremely overpriced, and their dealer support network is kind of poor, that I agree with you completely.
 
Mar 5, 2019 at 4:00 PM Post #10,220 of 20,433
I'm pretty sure we've had this conversation before, but even the Mojo would beat out most $10k DAC on pure measurements because of Chord's approach. If you want to argue that the Mojo is a better DAC than the Rossini, that's a bridge you'll have to cross. The Dave isn't immune from the Objective 2 debate just because it costs $10k.

Hifi is about pleasing distortions, and all of these DAC's are so competent that tuning differences are the main reason why there's any deviation in output between DACs at all. In that regard, I do feel that Chord comes up short, and just isn't as engaging as Nagra or DCS's top products. If all you care about is a flat reproduction profile, there are far cheaper products that will get the job done.

MSB is extremely overpriced, and their dealer support network is kind of poor, that I agree with you completely.

We haven't had this conversation, sorry dude. Hifi is about high fidelity = fidelity (where the Hi and Fi come from) to the source. Pleasing distortion is NOT what is meant by this; especially to me. I want as low distortion as possible and the upmost in transparency, Anything less is just colouration to personal tastes that change with time. Again, this is what I look for in a setup. Just like the Utopia headphones...they don't offer thicker sound presentations with moar bass, but rather a HiFi approach with fidelity as their prime goal. Coming up short is the opposite to this, but we're off topic here and I suggest we head back on target.
 
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Mar 5, 2019 at 4:10 PM Post #10,221 of 20,433
If it measures superbly but is BORING then I'll spend my money elsewhere

Give me engaging, musical and toe tapping.
Give me PRAT

different strokes for different folks
 
Mar 5, 2019 at 4:12 PM Post #10,222 of 20,433
If it measures superbly but is BORING then I'll spend my money elsewhere

Give me engaging, musical and toe tapping.
Give me PRAT

different strokes for different folks

If it measures superbly, blame what you're feeding it with; musicality and PRAT are in the recording. Don't blame downstream for upstream issues because measuring superbly means you're hearing exactly the way the recording was intended to sound. The Utopia headphones are very much the same way. That's the reason I got into this hobby....otherwise I'd be happy with a much cheaper setup and a lot of EQ.

If someone is after something else, absolutely, different courses for different horses.
 
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Mar 5, 2019 at 4:24 PM Post #10,223 of 20,433
Sorry - do not agree
Think I'll move on as this is starting to go in circles
 
Mar 5, 2019 at 4:27 PM Post #10,224 of 20,433
Zahnming
Good post

Funny thing for me. I went to CanJam with the intent of demoing the new Nimbus amplifier (Violectric). The Mr Speakers booth had it connected to a TT2. I used my Utopia's with Kimber Axios CU cable. I was not impressed.

The same suite was shared with the Headamp guys - they always have a knack of putting together nice systems. I wanted to hear the new GSX Mini. They had it paired with the new Mytek Brooklyn+. Imho a much more engaging system. Excellent.
I need to revisit the TT2 as something was maybe wrong (?) I was expecting much more.

I owned a Mojo and thought that was amazing vfm
Hugo1 was ok

I was at the Meze booth and heard the Empyrean run straight from a DAVE. That was nice.

using the Utopia with the TT2 and the nimbus is overkill.....you would be far better off going straight out of the TT2.......the utopia is easy to drive and doesnt need additional amplification...
 
Mar 5, 2019 at 4:30 PM Post #10,225 of 20,433
using the Utopia with the TT2 and the nimbus is overkill.....you would be far better off going straight out of the TT2.......the utopia is easy to drive and doesnt need additional amplification...

Agreed...plus the more gear in the way between the source material and your headphones = more distortion. Something I wouldn't want to add to these extremely revealing headphones.
 
Mar 5, 2019 at 4:36 PM Post #10,226 of 20,433
Yes I dont think the setup did the Nimbus, or the TT2, any favors. I walked away not impressed with either one. Once they realized I pulled out my own Utopia headphones - and was not interested in listening to any Mr Speaker Headphones - they were not that helpful :)
Then again I was told to go there by the Nimbus people.
 
Mar 5, 2019 at 4:52 PM Post #10,227 of 20,433
With Utopia I still feel Hugo TT (1) is more engaging than Hugo 2. For an actual LISTENING session I will always go for the TT.
 
Mar 5, 2019 at 5:26 PM Post #10,228 of 20,433
With Utopia I still feel Hugo TT (1) is more engaging than Hugo 2. For an actual LISTENING session I will always go for the TT.

The TT is a great unit, I’ve owned both at the same time, and I prefer the Hugo2. That said, the differences were closer than say the Hugo 1 and TT.
 
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Mar 6, 2019 at 1:35 AM Post #10,229 of 20,433
We haven't had this conversation, sorry dude. Hifi is about high fidelity = fidelity (where the Hi and Fi come from) to the source. Pleasing distortion is NOT what is meant by this; especially to me. I want as low distortion as possible and the upmost in transparency, Anything less is just colouration to personal tastes that change with time. Again, this is what I look for in a setup. Just like the Utopia headphones...they don't offer thicker sound presentations with moar bass, but rather a HiFi approach with fidelity as their prime goal. Coming up short is the opposite to this, but we're off topic here and I suggest we head back on target.
If it measures superbly, blame what you're feeding it with; musicality and PRAT are in the recording. Don't blame downstream for upstream issues because measuring superbly means you're hearing exactly the way the recording was intended to sound. The Utopia headphones are very much the same way. That's the reason I got into this hobby....otherwise I'd be happy with a much cheaper setup and a lot of EQ.

If someone is after something else, absolutely, different courses for different horses.
how do you reconcile your position on this with ownership of totl grados and the z1r for example, which are measurably and subjectively "coloured"? it just seems inconsistent to me to apply these audiophile purist ideals to ancillary gear but not to the headphones that are connected to them. a dac / amp that measures superbly isn't going to flatten a headphone's uneven fr, reduce its thd or make it any less "coloured", more "transparent" or "faithful to the recording" - just sayin'.
 
Mar 6, 2019 at 1:58 AM Post #10,230 of 20,433
I couldn't care less about how it measures if it doesn't sound musical. If it doesn't move me. I also don't care how the musician intended it to sound. Unless he is buying my gear. Otherwise I want to listen to music that moves me, and sounds the way I prefer. If that is flat for some, then more power to them. For me I'll take the beautiful sound of a good tube amp and let others choose for themselves.
 

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