[bflat]

The OEM 4M OFC Focal cable cost $1K to replace. From that perspective any cable at the same price seems like a good option.

 

[csglinux]

I have not tried any other cables with my Utopia, other than just aftermarket spc balanced cables which I wouldn't consider an upgrade. I do have silver dragon cables for my noble encores which I like very much. I know a lot of people here don't believe in cables... I believe it because I hear the difference with my not so golden and pretty old ears. Much better imaging with clearer spacial resolution, separation, etc. I am hopeful that the Lazuli cables will prove their worth in cost. I hope I can report back and say worth every penny! If not, they will go right back. 4 week build time

I'm also a cable believer, but I also believe in diminishing returns as the cable impedance gets close enough to zero. I don't doubt the labor time and parts that go into some of these cables do come close to justifying the absurd prices (I own a Kimber-Axios 12-strand Cu cable, which is truly a work of art). I'm not sure at what price/labor/parts/impedance point it becomes overkill, but I'm sure that point exists...

Looking forward to your feedback on the Lazuli cable...

 

[jlbrach]

I bought the Danacable used and sold it used....simply could not hear enough difference between it and a Moon Audio Dragon cable to warrant the expense...

 

[jscmd2000]

I'm also a cable believer, but I also believe in diminishing returns as the cable impedance gets close enough to zero. I don't doubt the labor time and parts that go into some of these cables do come close to justifying the absurd prices (I own a Kimber-Axios 12-strand Cu cable, which is truly a work of art). I'm not sure at what price/labor/parts/impedance point it becomes overkill, but I'm sure that point exists...

Looking forward to your feedback on the Lazuli cable...

Wow, your Kimber cables are expensive too, not much cheaper than the Lazuli cables. Obviously, you kept yours because they are worth it. What do you like about them compared to the stock cables?

 

[bflat]

My view of cables is pretty straight forward. I look at the connection points of the voice coil and connector. In the Utopia's case, the connection point is with the LEMO connector and just by the looks of it, that would appear to be the weakest link and I'm not sure what is achieved by adding a gazillion strands to the cable if the choke point is at the connector. Next, I've always been a fan of OCC wire and Litz weave. OCC is the most conductive wire made from a single grain of metal. Litz is a bunch of individual wires that are each insulated and twisted into a single wire (and a real PITA to solder). Using multiple strands increases the surface area of the wire which is where the electrons tend to travel. The insulation of the individual wires keep electrons from jumping from one wire to another which can cause distortion. The braid of wires and insulation materials should be able to block out EMI. Anything beyond these basic requirements is more cosmetic IMHO. Having said that, sound is all perceived and if a silver cable makes some folks think the sound is more airy, then it is. I once thought my headphone was out of balance to the left. It turns out I was listening while browsing the Headfi forums and positioned my browser to the left of my monitor. When I moved the browser to the middle of my monitor, my headphones miraculously went back to R-L balance. All perception.

 

[csglinux]

Wow, your Kimber cables are expensive too, not much cheaper than the Lazuli cables. Obviously, you kept yours because they are worth it. What do you like about them compared to the stock cables?

I love the Kimber cables for their sheer craftsmanship (and the fact that I didn't pay for them!). Hard to say whether anything in audio is worth the price - if it's worth it to you, then it is.

The tough thing about doing a proper A/B on cables is the time it takes to switch them over (quickly, and blind). But I'll try at some point. I also have a few other cables to compare with the Kimber-Axios...

 

[jscmd2000]

True about taking time to switch the cables for comparing. My poor short term memory... just can't remember what I heard, but blame it on the placebo effect!
All I know is that I better be able to justify. And there seems to be a number of experts that I admire who seem to believe they are justifiable. A significant upgrade. What kind of worthy upgrade costs 1300!? I feel the need to find out, of course.
Well, it wouldn't be the first time if I thought that something was crap and then wonder, hey, how come that reviewer likes everything? Even crap, lol

 

[TSAVJason]

True about taking time to switch the cables for comparing. My poor short term memory... just can't remember what I heard, but blame it on the placebo effect!
All I know is that I better be able to justify. And there seems to be a number of experts that I admire who seem to believe they are justifiable. A significant upgrade. What kind of worthy upgrade costs 1300!? I feel the need to find out, of course.
Well, it wouldn't be the first time if I thought that something was crap and then wonder, hey, how come that reviewer likes everything? Even crap, lol

Hahaha I won’t comment on that last part.

Cables absolutely make differences. How they are perceived is an individual thing.

Maybe you can find an amp that has 2 same type simultaneously live outputs so you can A/B more easily. I’m not sure how other resellers do it but in many cases we can help with these types of comparisons.

 

[emptymt]

True about taking time to switch the cables for comparing. My poor short term memory... just can't remember what I heard, but blame it on the placebo effect!
All I know is that I better be able to justify. And there seems to be a number of experts that I admire who seem to believe they are justifiable. A significant upgrade. What kind of worthy upgrade costs 1300!? I feel the need to find out, of course.
Well, it wouldn't be the first time if I thought that something was crap and then wonder, hey, how come that reviewer likes everything? Even crap, lol

Just get one after-market cable in $400-$500 range and re-terminate if you change headphone.
I do hear difference between cables, but it's not night and day difference kinda thing that i would spend that much money on cables.

I like to think that cables is just an accessories to complete the set and give piece of mind as we don't know the quality of cables stocked with the headphone, with after-market cables, we know.

 

[MacedonianHero]

I'm also a cable believer, but I also believe in diminishing returns as the cable impedance gets close enough to zero. I don't doubt the labor time and parts that go into some of these cables do come close to justifying the absurd prices (I own a Kimber-Axios 12-strand Cu cable, which is truly a work of art). I'm not sure at what price/labor/parts/impedance point it becomes overkill, but I'm sure that point exists...

Looking forward to your feedback on the Lazuli cable...

My experiences with cable upgrades in the past have been very much in line with your diminished returns comments and I typically spent my $ on upstream gear. That said, when I reviewed the Lanzuli Reference cable (on Headphone.Guru), the differences were way more profound than any other cable upgrade I've done in the past for my Focal Utopias and it really surprised me.

 

[Allanmarcus]

like to think that cables is just an accessories to complete the set and give piece of mind as we don't know the quality of cables stocked with the headphone, with after-market cables, we know.

What?

What we know is that focal voices the headphones to work with the included cable. I have confidence focal did their due diligence to put together a quality cable with their flagship headphone.

While I'm sure all the third party cables are good, they make their living selling audiophile porn. I'm not saying third party cables are voodoo, I'm just saying some of the claims are unprovable.

That said, all the reputable brands make excellent cables. Some are like jewelry and are very pretty. Many are more comfortable than stock. And many here that have paid a lot for these cables will swear (over and over again) how much they love their cables.

The benefits, or differences, between cables is probably directly proportional to how fine tuned your hearing is, and somewhat proportional to how much you paid for your cable Personally, I'm blessed with mediocre hearing, so while I clearly hear the benefits of the utopia headphones, I haven't been able to discern difference between cables. Don't be afraid to admit it if you cannot either. To those that can hear the difference and have the money to spend, I salute you. To those that don't, don't worry, be happy.

 

[emptymt]

What?

What we know is that focal voices the headphones to work with the included cable. I have confidence focal did their due diligence to put together a quality cable with their flagship headphone.

While I'm sure all the third party cables are good, they make their living selling audiophile porn. I'm not saying third party cables are voodoo, I'm just saying some of the claims are unprovable.

That said, all the reputable brands make excellent cables. Some are like jewelry and are very pretty. Many are more comfortable than stock. And many here that have paid a lot for these cables will swear (over and over again) how much they love their cables.

The benefits, or differences, between cables is probably directly proportional to how fine tuned your hearing is, and somewhat proportional to how much you paid for your cable Personally, I'm blessed with mediocre hearing, so while I clearly hear the benefits of the utopia headphones, I haven't been able to discern difference between cables. Don't be afraid to admit it if you cannot either. To those that can hear the difference and have the money to spend, I salute you. To those that don't, don't worry, be happy.

I agree on some point, although when I say "we know more", i was referring more to the construction and not only to Focal but headphone in general, there are people who love to know the nitty-gritty as in the type of material the connectors are made (palladium, etc), and the material for the cable OCC, OFC, the purity, whatever I also don't understand most of it. But there are others who might want to know about this stuff and would like to try this kind of stuff regardless of how the headphone is voiced together with stock cable or not.

Focal and many other companies do specify what their cables is made from(you'll be able to know if you research enough I guess) however not as detailed as what these after-market companies do, they specify it straight at you since most of their customers want to have access to these data(which is hard to understand).

With that said there are some headphone that is more questionable and feels cheap on the cables (compared to how they are priced), and I'm not referring to Focal here, as I think they're cable is very high quality, sadly it is only in 1/4 inch.
I would have preferred if they give 2 cables (2m XLR, 2m 1/4 inch), they used to supply the 4m cable, so I don't see why this is not the case, had this been done, I would have been happy with the stock cable and will not look into after-market cable.

I already have my after-market cable for awhile before I got the Utopia and is not interested to buy another cable as the difference is super minor

 

[Darren G]

I'm in the never hear any differences between cables camp.

There are a few other factors though may result in me paying more for a cable (up to a point) -

a.) Microphonic scratching and thumping noises when touching the cable = annoyance. Worth paying a little more for a cable that doesn't.
b.) Comfort.
c.) Aesthetics.
d.) Build quality.
e.) Patience/time required to build my own vs just buying one.

Still I've heard no differences in cables, and what few measurements there are (e.g., innerfidelity measured no differences in the output of the HD650s no matter the cable used) leave me unwilling to invest heavily in them. There are massive differences in transducers though, and I'd rather leave the extra $ in the bank and use it toward another set of HPs. Swapping out HPs, depending on the type of music I'm listening to, and my mood, makes more sense for me. Works for me.

 

[banco-sg]

I'm in the never hear any differences between cables camp.

There are a few other factors though may result in me paying more for a cable (up to a point) -

a.) Microphonic scratching and thumping noises when touching the cable = annoyance. Worth paying a little more for a cable that doesn't.
b.) Comfort.
c.) Aesthetics.
d.) Build quality.
e.) Patience/time required to build my own vs just buying one.

Still I've heard no differences in cables, and what few measurements there are (e.g., innerfidelity measured no differences in the output of the HD650s no matter the cable used) leave me unwilling to invest heavily in them. There are massive differences in transducers though, and I'd rather leave the extra $ in the bank and use it toward another set of HPs. Swapping out HPs, depending on the type of music I'm listening to, and my mood, makes more sense for me. Works for me.

I wasnt a cable believer too, until i got my utopia. I bought some cheap balanced cable and it sounded worse than the stock cable. No, i am not making this up, as i can hear loss of details.

I think there are difference between good and bad cable.

 

[csglinux]

I wasnt a cable believer too, until i got my utopia. I bought some cheap balanced cable and it sounded worse than the stock cable. No, i am not making this up, as i can hear loss of details.

I think there are difference between good and bad cable.

This comment is spot on - in my experience there can be significant (measurable) differences between a stock cable and a bad cable; there are usually smaller differences between stock cable and a good cable and I suspect even smaller differences between two really good quality cables:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/shure-se846-impressions-thread.675219/page-1207#post-13644650

Measuring no differences at all between various HD650 cables is an extreme case, because the HD650 already has very high impedance. The earlier comments from @bflat were indeed profound words of wisdom though: the choke point on the Utopia is in the two LEMO connector pins that are basically single strand 24 AWG (and the wiring that continues behind them). Still, it's nice to have a bit of safety room (with some cool aesthetics) up to that point.