Focal Utopia General Discussion
Mar 5, 2017 at 12:30 PM Post #2,431 of 20,433
I want to ask you fine Utopia owners a question. I know the Utopia scales well with better upstream equipments and all that but if you use it in portable setting mostly, is it still worth doing it? I am only concern with the sound and not the logistic of moving it around. In other words, in a portable setting, will the Utopia be able to shine at all making it a worthwhile exercise? The reviewer at Absolute Sound seems to think the Utopia is a relatively easy to drive phone that driving it with a dap can be quite enjoyable. But if only 50 percent of its potential can be realized then it may not worth it. How much difference do you think there is between driving it from a desktop amp and a totl dap like the Sony1Z? For instance, if you are going on a vacation or a trip for a week or two, is it worth taking the Utopia along so you can enjoy the music, or is it not worth it because it is just not that good driving from a portable setup. I know many of you will experience an increase heart rate just thinking about taking you Utopia out of your house but leaving that aside, and judging only from sound alone, what do you think? Can you get 80 percent out of it? Thanks.

 
For me, I find the Utopia sound very good out of almost anything.  It is not as source dependent as something like HD800's but it will benefit from a heavy hitting setup.  In the end, if you are looking for something to use at home and on the road, the Utopia (or Elear) is likely a very good option.  
 
Mar 5, 2017 at 12:31 PM Post #2,432 of 20,433
I want to ask you fine Utopia owners a question. I know the Utopia scales well with better upstream equipments and all that but if you use it in portable setting mostly, is it still worth doing it? I am only concern with the sound and not the logistic of moving it around. In other words, in a portable setting, will the Utopia be able to shine at all making it a worthwhile exercise? The reviewer at Absolute Sound seems to think the Utopia is a relatively easy to drive phone that driving it with a dap can be quite enjoyable. But if only 50 percent of its potential can be realized then it may not worth it. How much difference do you think there is between driving it from a desktop amp and a totl dap like the Sony1Z? For instance, if you are going on a vacation or a trip for a week or two, is it worth taking the Utopia along so you can enjoy the music, or is it not worth it because it is just not that good driving from a portable setup. I know many of you will experience an increase heart rate just thinking about taking you Utopia out of your house but leaving that aside, and judging only from sound alone, what do you think? Can you get 80 percent out of it? Thanks.


Personally I wouldn't even consider it.
 
I use my QP1R and PM-3 for a portable set up. I'm not suggesting it's in the same league as my desktop set up but more than enough SQ for this purpose.
 
Mar 5, 2017 at 12:53 PM Post #2,433 of 20,433
 
Personally I wouldn't even consider it.
 
I use my QP1R and PM-3 for a portable set up. I'm not suggesting it's in the same league as my desktop set up but more than enough SQ for this purpose.

I wouldnt carry my utopia around with me,i am paranoid carrying such expensive gear for portable use where it can get lost or damaged.....i bought an ether c flow for such use and while it is certainly not cheap it is dramatically cheaper than the utopia....paired with a hugo it is a great portable solution..portable to me does not mean carry around it means taking with me to a hotel or on a trip to see family etc
 
Mar 5, 2017 at 12:57 PM Post #2,434 of 20,433
@DannyBGoode, so you think the Hugo2/Utopia combo can reach 80% of a desktop setup? I listened to the Hugo2at CES and found it sounds very similar to my 1Z. But the Hugo2 does have much more power on tap at 850 mv per channel. Thanks.
@Bigfatpaulie yes the Elear is a good option but I like the Utopia sound. It is good to know that the Utopia is not too source dependent.
@Imusicman, your concern is very well a valid one under most circumstances. For most people, the majority of their listening is done at home so they put all of their resource in their desktop setup and they spent 80 to 90 percent of their time listening to that setup and only 10 percent on the road, therefore it doesn't matter too much the quality of their portable sound. It is very reasonable. But I am the opposite of the above. I spent over 25k with my portable equipments so I can have the best sound on the road where I do 70 to 80 percent of my listening. That is why my question only pertains to sound and not logistic.
 
Mar 5, 2017 at 1:39 PM Post #2,435 of 20,433
@DannyBGoode, so you think the Hugo2/Utopia combo can reach 80% of a desktop setup? I listened to the Hugo2at CES and found it sounds very similar to my 1Z. But the Hugo2 does have much more power on tap at 850 mv per channel. Thanks.
@Bigfatpaulie yes the Elear is a good option but I like the Utopia sound. It is good to know that the Utopia is not too source dependent.
@Imusicman, your concern is very well a valid one under most circumstances. For most people, the majority of their listening is done at home so they put all of their resource in their desktop setup and they spent 80 to 90 percent of their time listening to that setup and only 10 percent on the road, therefore it doesn't matter too much the quality of their portable sound. It is very reasonable. But I am the opposite of the above. I spent over 25k with my portable equipments so I can have the best sound on the road where I do 70 to 80 percent of my listening. That is why my question only pertains to sound and not logistic.

Wow I didn't even know it was possible to spend that much on portable gear.
 
Mar 5, 2017 at 1:40 PM Post #2,436 of 20,433
I wouldnt carry my utopia around with me,i am paranoid carrying such expensive gear for portable use where it can get lost or damaged.....i bought an ether c flow for such use and while it is certainly not cheap it is dramatically cheaper than the utopia....paired with a hugo it is a great portable solution..portable to me does not mean carry around it means taking with me to a hotel or on a trip to see family etc

I'm hoping the Aeon will replace the PM-3 when it's arrives in a couple of months.
 
Mar 5, 2017 at 1:40 PM Post #2,437 of 20,433
@DannyBGoode, so you think the Hugo2/Utopia combo can reach 80% of a desktop setup? I listened to the Hugo2at CES and found it sounds very similar to my 1Z. But the Hugo2 does have much more power on tap at 850 mv per channel. Thanks.
@Bigfatpaulie yes the Elear is a good option but I like the Utopia sound. It is good to know that the Utopia is not too source dependent.
@Imusicman, your concern is very well a valid one under most circumstances. For most people, the majority of their listening is done at home so they put all of their resource in their desktop setup and they spent 80 to 90 percent of their time listening to that setup and only 10 percent on the road, therefore it doesn't matter too much the quality of their portable sound. It is very reasonable. But I am the opposite of the above. I spent over 25k with my portable equipments so I can have the best sound on the road where I do 70 to 80 percent of my listening. That is why my question only pertains to sound and not logistic.


I use the Utopia/1Z when I travel but in air travel I use the MDR-1000x now that Sony finally sent a pair for demo. I'm not a loud listener but I don't listen quietly either. Using the Balanced out of the 1Z I get all I need ...80% seems an easy achievement and likely more.

That said if you don't mind taking more gear along with you there are other options. When I travel to head-fi meets or CanJam's I've been using my Utopia/1Z with the Liquid Carbon. It's a little warmer sounding. The Hugo2 is a great amp/DAC with lots of power and a very detailed sound. If detail is what you prefer over warmth I might suggest that the only difference that pairing brings is an additional component i.e. DAP of choice. I'm personally very partial to the DSD playback of the 1Z.
 
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Mar 5, 2017 at 2:15 PM Post #2,438 of 20,433
I have been very undecided about the Utopia since getting it a few months ago. Compared to my other 'best' headphone - the modded HE6 - it didn't seem to offer enough improvement to justify the cost. I was contemplating selling it and taking the hit on resale value and reverting to the HE6 as my primary can.
 
I spent a chunk of the recent weekend doing A/B testing to make up my mind on keeping/selling the Utopia. The gear used is in my sig. Note that these rigs only share the source DAC - so I can run both simultaneously and can A/B as fast as I can swap the headphones on my pointy head.
 
My conclusion is that the Utopia is not just a superior headphone, but superior enough to justify keeping it. Knowing what I know now, I would not purchase one at full retail again - 4K is a lot of ground to cover and the modded HE6 does 90% (or more) of what the Utopia does (to my ears). So I would not recommend buying one to existing HE6 owners, but now that I have it I can't see myself selling it to realize between 2k - 3K (not sure exactly what I would get for a near mint Utopia).
 
Some quick thoughts across the audio spectrum:
 
Bass - HE6 goes lower. HE6 has more bass. Utopia is more punchy and tighter. I think the Utopia has better bass, while the HE6 has more bass. I do not comprehend the folks that say the Utopia is bass light.
 
Mids - HE6 seems a little recessed here. Utopia is pretty darn spectacular. This, more than anything else, is why the Utopia is a keeper for me. If the HE6 was a little more prominent in the mids I would sell the Utopia and be done with it. 98% of my listening is vocal-centric, so this is critical for me. (I am not interested in running EQ to push the mids up - others might find that viable).
 
Treble - both do a rather great job here. HE6 can tend to 'steely' at times, but I am finding that the Yggy DAC has improved this considerably compared to my previous [delta-sigma] DACs (Vega / HD30 / Bricasti M1). Slight raspy quality to the Utopia at a certain frequency spike that I can't quite put my finger on, but it is rarely intrusive.
 
Usual overall comments apply - the Utopia wins on speed, punch, clarity, dynamics.
 
While I would not do it over (buying a Utopia @ 4K), now that I have it I will keep it. For those wanting a headphone that does almost as much as the Utopia, but for a lot less $$$, I would recommend the modded HE6 (or the Ether Flow).
 
All very subjective, of course, and a big fat YMMV applies to all this.
 
Mar 5, 2017 at 2:26 PM Post #2,439 of 20,433
TonyNewman - interesting thoughts. The issue (if you can call it that) with the Utopia is they are so quick that I can't relax listening to them in the way I can with the HEK v2.

But, the toss side to that is the bass response which (assuming the HEK has a similar presentation to the HE6) you summarise very well. There's a slam the Utopia have I've just not experienced before.

Drums also sound slightly more real to me on the Utopia but by gosh its close between the two as to which is the keeper.

I'm still learning toward the HEK but tomorrow I'll out the Utopia back on just to be sure.
 
Mar 5, 2017 at 2:33 PM Post #2,440 of 20,433
   
Some quick thoughts across the audio spectrum:
 
Bass - HE6 goes lower. HE6 has more bass. Utopia is more punchy and tighter. I think the Utopia has better bass, while the HE6 has more bass. I do not comprehend the folks that say the Utopia is bass light.
 
Mids - HE6 seems a little recessed here. Utopia is pretty darn spectacular. This, more than anything else, is why the Utopia is a keeper for me. If the HE6 was a little more prominent in the mids I would sell the Utopia and be done with it. 98% of my listening is vocal-centric, so this is critical for me. (I am not interested in running EQ to push the mids up - others might find that viable).
 
Treble - both do a rather great job here. HE6 can tend to 'steely' at times, but I am finding that the Yggy DAC has improved this considerably compared to my previous [delta-sigma] DACs (Vega / HD30 / Bricasti M1). Slight raspy quality to the Utopia at a certain frequency spike that I can't quite put my finger on, but it is rarely intrusive.
 
Usual overall comments apply - the Utopia wins on speed, punch, clarity, dynamics.
 
While I would not do it over (buying a Utopia @ 4K), now that I have it I will keep it. For those wanting a headphone that does almost as much as the Utopia, but for a lot less $$$, I would recommend the modded HE6 (or the Ether Flow).
 
All very subjective, of course, and a big fat YMMV applies to all this.

 
I could cut&paste your feedback, put my name in, and say it's mine because it is exactly what I think 
biggrin.gif

 
and the interesting part of it, it's that my rig is completely different!!!
 
btw, I do think that Utopia has the right quantity of an excellent bass, but not so much sub-bas (IMHO HEK, and to a certain level HE6, is definitely better here), maybe it's this what people refer to when they say it is bass light..... looking at the FR should not be so lacking, but probably the perception of those freqs are easier with a large membrane and Utopia is only 40mm  
 
and, yes me too can hear something quite weird around 10k, but it's not so intrusive so I can defintely live with it.
 
of course, and as usual, YMMV 
L3000.gif
 
 
Mar 5, 2017 at 6:25 PM Post #2,441 of 20,433
I guess this is mainly for the people that have heard the Utopia, HD800S, and MDR-Z1R. I currently have the Elear and I like it a lot. The problem is, every time I upgrade my IEMs, my cans start to lag behind and I eventually feel the need to upgrade them as well. That being said, I have finally reached end-game in IEMs and doubt there is much on the horizon to make me shuffle my current lineup anytime soon (knock on wood).
 
Now it's time to reach for TOTL status in cans. As you can see from my IEMs I like a variety of signatures and characteristics. Not sure I could ever settle on just one but I've always been content with one set of good cans. Not sure that's the case anymore. I've been drooling over the Utopia, HD800S, and MDR-Z1R. Unfortunately, there is nowhere to demo them in Qatar. Based on what I've read, I think I'd like them all for different things. I initially wanted to just go for the Utopia to satisfy all of my listening needs. From everything I've read, it seems to be the most resolving and most balanced. However, those are not the only things I care about. I'm big on musicality, engagement, staging, and fun as well.
 
So I thought, can a HD800S/MDR-Z1R combo beat out the Utopia? Or, is the Utopia simply head and shoulders above these two in just about everything, except width, even when teamed together like Voltron? They cost about the same and it would be two for the price of one, right? Bang for your buck is not really the question, though. Otherwise, I'd simply go for the HD800S and MDR-Z1R. I know some will say it's an unfair comparison or it varies based on personal tastes, etc. but I'm asking anyway haha. Thanks in advance for those that can help guide me down the right path!   
 
Mar 5, 2017 at 7:28 PM Post #2,442 of 20,433
  I guess this is mainly for the people that have heard the Utopia, HD800S, and MDR-Z1R. I currently have the Elear and I like it a lot. The problem is, every time I upgrade my IEMs, my cans start to lag behind and I eventually feel the need to upgrade them as well. That being said, I have finally reached end-game in IEMs and doubt there is much on the horizon to make me shuffle my current lineup anytime soon (knock on wood).
 
Now it's time to reach for TOTL status in cans. As you can see from my IEMs I like a variety of signatures and characteristics. Not sure I could ever settle on just one but I've always been content with one set of good cans. Not sure that's the case anymore. I've been drooling over the Utopia, HD800S, and MDR-Z1R. Unfortunately, there is nowhere to demo them in Qatar. Based on what I've read, I think I'd like them all for different things. I initially wanted to just go for the Utopia to satisfy all of my listening needs. From everything I've read, it seems to be the most resolving and most balanced. However, those are not the only things I care about. I'm big on musicality, engagement, staging, and fun as well.
 
So I thought, can a HD800S/MDR-Z1R combo beat out the Utopia? Or, is the Utopia simply head and shoulders above these two in just about everything, except width, even when teamed together like Voltron? They cost about the same and it would be two for the price of one, right? Bang for your buck is not really the question, though. Otherwise, I'd simply go for the HD800S and MDR-Z1R. I know some will say it's an unfair comparison or it varies based on personal tastes, etc. but I'm asking anyway haha. Thanks in advance for those that can help guide me down the right path!   

 
If you never listen to the Utopia, the other two will meet your needs.  
 
Mar 5, 2017 at 8:04 PM Post #2,443 of 20,433
   
If you never listen to the Utopia, the other two will meet your needs.  


Hmmm... That definitely sounds like a fair way to sum it up. How far apart would you say the Utopia and HD800S are in terms of detail retrieval? 
 
Mar 5, 2017 at 10:06 PM Post #2,444 of 20,433
 

If you never listen to the Utopia, the other two will meet your needs.  



Hmmm... That definitely sounds like a fair way to sum it up. How far apart would you say the Utopia and HD800S are in terms of detail retrieval? 


Sorry, I'm not that sophisticated a listener. Luckily the topic has been discussed earlier in this thread.
 
Mar 5, 2017 at 10:41 PM Post #2,445 of 20,433
 
Hmmm... That definitely sounds like a fair way to sum it up. How far apart would you say the Utopia and HD800S are in terms of detail retrieval? 


I never had the 800 S, but did have the 800 for a period of 3 years before owning the Utopia -- definitely have put the hours in on the Senn's lol. When you say detail retrieval, I take that to mean how audible each frequency is, and or the ability to hear and separate every noise that was recorded in the source file. Let me just say that prior to the Utopia's, my floor standing speakers, the Triton 1 by Goldenear, was my 'reference' for sound. My combination now of the Yggy+Rag+Utopia has become my new 'reference' -- audio has never sounded so transparent and good.
 
In my experience, the HD 800 does not resolve detail as well as the Utopia. I don't have the words to correctly describe it, but at least on my set, the 800's would definitely blend more sounds together and lacked the imaging of the Utopia (not to be mistaken with soundstage, where the 800 has Utopia beat). For better or worse, on the Utopia it really feels like I can hear and make out just about everything in the source. The only instance where I have trouble with imaging is in tracks that have a lot of low frequencies playing simultaneously, and in these cases it feels much more in line with the 800.
 
So as someone who has put in very, very many hours on the 800's, the short answer to your question is that the two are very far apart in favor of the Utopia.
 

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