Focal Elear and Utopia Review / Preview With Measurements - Head-Fi TV
Aug 10, 2016 at 9:18 PM Post #1,771 of 5,632
Can you point me at the impressions calling it "quite bass light"?  I'm curious who has heard it and called it that.
Easy cowgirl, there have been a couple comments calling them bass light. And Dan, it's a fair question for him to ask. After learning the typical preference of those that said it, it turned out they liked the TH ...oh I can't say because I'm not a dealer for that brand. But we all know that that headphone is more of the bassheads headphone. So to that extreme the Utopia is bass light if that is the comparison. I know we agree on that .....hahaha
 
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Aug 10, 2016 at 9:25 PM Post #1,772 of 5,632
Easy cowgirl, there have been a couple comments calling them bass light. And Dan, it's a fair question for him to ask. After learning the typical preference of those that said it, it turned out they liked the TH ...oh I can't say because I'm not a dealer for that brand. But we all know that that headphone is more of the bassheads headphone. So to that extreme the Utopia is bass light if that is the comparison. I know we agree on that .....hahaha

I'll say it-the LCD-2! Ha ha ha. Man, the Utopia has more than enough, just not as much as a broad bass emphasis as the Elear. @TSAVJasonand @Stillhart, a fun time was had by all. The Utopia/Elear pad swap was enlightening; I never thought it would make that big a difference in the sound of both headphones.
 
Aug 10, 2016 at 9:33 PM Post #1,773 of 5,632
Easy cowgirl, there have been a couple comments calling them bass light. 

 
Well then feel free to point me at them, cowgirl.  I seem to have missed them.
 
And Dan, it's a fair question for him to ask. After learning the typical preference of those that said it, it turned out they liked the TH ...oh I can't say because I'm not a dealer for that brand. But we all know that that headphone is more of the bassheads headphone. So to that extreme the Utopia is bass light if that is the comparison. I know we agree on that .....hahaha 

 
Of course it's a fair question, cowgirl, I never said it wasn't.  I asked a fairly straight forward question so I'm not sure how you're reading into it like that, cowgirl.  
 
And yes, preferences of those who said it will certainly play a role, which is why I'm curious who said it.  Cowgirl.
 
Aug 10, 2016 at 9:47 PM Post #1,774 of 5,632
Jason - have your opinions changed on the Utopia since this thread started?

Specifically I remember you saying you thought the Utopia did everything better than the Stax 009. With more recent opinions about the small soundstage and it being quite bass light, do you still think there's nothing the 009 do better after you've had more time to listen?
Well yes and no. As you probably know I am and was a fan of the 009. I personally prefer a more reference sounding headphone. The 009 is brilliant but since the Utopia came along I much prefer the emotion and musicality of it over the 009. Now so that Arnaud doesn't get his pants all in an uproar, allow me to say, they are both great headphones being that they are both near the very top of the food chain. For me and this doesn't mean everyone by any means, as a bassist, classically trained, I find a more realistic bass presentation to the Utopia. It's not bass light to me but if you like bass lifted headphones they may seem a very tiny bit light. To compare from the other direction it makes the HD800/800S sound like there is almost no bass in them. The 009 doesn't have a bass deficiency nor does it have bad bass. It has what I refer to as Japanese bass. I think Amos likes this kind of bass and obviously Arnaud does for sure. To me as a speaker designer, I find it a little compressed and unnatural. Not to the extent I hate it but to the extent it's the one thing I wish it was better at reproducing. It really is music dependant as to how obvious it is that I find in the 009. I really punished both and I rode both gently as I would normally. Again they are both awesome headphones but if given the choice of one, I personally would take the Utopia. My reasons are the music and how it's presented, customer service, build quality and last but not least, BASS is good and I'm in audio nirvana on them. I'm not sure if you've been paying attention but we did discover a nice lift on bass in the Utopia by using the Elear pads. That should make a person that likes more bass very happy because it was substantial. As for the 4K improvement I saw a comment on, nope! It's acoustically impossible to lift the 4K any further unless it is mechanically done. The microfiber pad isn't capable of assisting in high frequency lift. If you listen to the cost complaints, the Utopia is still the better value because it's so easy to run. Even the Cavalli Liquid Carbon makes them jump when the music says jump. So it doesn't have to cost a fortune to own a killer rig when you think about it that way. So there you have my impression and it really is pretty consistent with my original post only I think I'm learning to express myself better in this community. I hope you found at least some of this helpful. I also hope I haven't pissed my buddy Arnaud off by jumping ship on the 009's ....stay well and enjoy the music!!
 
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Aug 10, 2016 at 9:47 PM Post #1,775 of 5,632
The 3kUSD sonic difference boiling down to a difference in pad is hard to swallow it seems :scream:

Since you questioned me on stax, I can confirm the tuning of the pads is just as important although not all :wink:.



IMO and experince ,you can tune the sound somewhat like imaging, staging, bass response with swap of pads or even exotic cables to a minimal degree in most cases or perhaps even a bit more on a higher level if you find the correct one, but you can never fix the resolution and refinement of a driver with any pads or cable swapping.
 
Aug 10, 2016 at 9:59 PM Post #1,776 of 5,632
Jason, since you are familiar with the 009, have you listened much to the SR007 and if so, do you have any comments on it in comparison to the Utopia? I like the fullness and evenhandedness from bass to upper highs of the 007 along with the speed and detail; I also find it neither analytical nor hyper-detailed and therefore relaxing and, for lack of a better word, musical. The 009 can be hard to take without a sweet front end chain feeding it I find.
 
Would you say the Utopia strikes this kind of happy medium? Thx.
 
Aug 10, 2016 at 9:59 PM Post #1,777 of 5,632
The 3kUSD sonic difference boiling down to a difference in pad is hard to swallow it seems :scream:

Since you questioned me on stax, I can confirm the tuning of the pads is just as important although not all :wink:.
My dear friend Arnaud! I don't question you at all. Even though you busted my balls as hard as my Drill Sargent in the beginning when we were launching the new headphones. I still have no issue with any of your comments other than you might find I'm not such a terrible guy as you and some originally thought. I think your opinion is substantiated and fair. We don't agree but then we don't share the same expertise or ears. So I'd like to continue reading your comments but would like you to know, that from my side at least I think you and your opinions are yours and you're welcome in my opinion to have them. So keep it up, I enjoy your comments
 
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Aug 10, 2016 at 10:55 PM Post #1,778 of 5,632
Um, not to crash the party here, but doesn't putting a vibrating sheet of a neurotoxic metal like beryllium directly next to your head strike anyone as a bit of a questionable design choice? Many speakers with beryllium tweeters carry warnings that if the tweeters are shattered you will be inhaling toxic dust. Shattering can apparently be triggered by simply overloading the speaker. 
http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/beryllium-in-speakers-is-it-safe.678190/ (See the NS2000 reference on this page)
Once in your body, beryllium cannot be removed. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beryllium
So I guess I would ask... what safety precautions are in place so that audiophiles aren't one accidental high gain knob turn away from being poisoned?
 
Aug 10, 2016 at 11:06 PM Post #1,779 of 5,632
Um, not to crash the party here, but doesn't putting a vibrating sheet of a neurotoxic metal like beryllium directly next to your head strike anyone as a bit of a questionable design choice? Many speakers with beryllium tweeters carry warnings that if the tweeters are shattered you will be inhaling toxic dust. Shattering can apparently be triggered by simply overloading the speaker. 
http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/beryllium-in-speakers-is-it-safe.678190/ (See the NS2000 reference on this page)
Once in your body, beryllium cannot be removed. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beryllium
So I guess I would ask... what safety precautions are in place so that audiophiles aren't one accidental high gain knob turn away from being poisoned?
Clearly you're not familiar with French control systems. Audiokarma? Please! It's only dangerous in dust form. Focal has no event in its past that has caused dust from a driver. They've burned voice coils, kids and adults have deformed them by touching them with pressure but not one from Focal has ever turned to dust. But if you're not comfortable with that, just don't buy them. Simple enough right?
 
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Aug 10, 2016 at 11:20 PM Post #1,780 of 5,632
Are there any peer reviewed studies or filings with governmental bodies certifying this to be the case (with respect to dust)? I would have to imagine that the portable headphone form factor would be a novel use case and thus lacking a statistically significant number of incident reports. Are there any deformation models available indicating the driver failure modes? 
 
Aug 10, 2016 at 11:26 PM Post #1,781 of 5,632
  Are there any peer reviewed studies or filings with governmental bodies certifying this to be the case (with respect to dust)? I would have to imagine that the portable headphone form factor would be a novel use case and thus lacking a statistically significant number of incident reports. Are there any deformation models available indicating the driver failure modes? 

 

 
Aug 10, 2016 at 11:31 PM Post #1,782 of 5,632
  Are there any peer reviewed studies or filings with governmental bodies certifying this to be the case (with respect to dust)? I would have to imagine that the portable headphone form factor would be a novel use case and thus lacking a statistically significant number of incident reports. Are there any deformation models available indicating the driver failure modes? 

 
Not trying to be obtuse here but you do realise you're hinting toward the fact Focal are idiots correct?
 
Do you think any reputable company that makes several millions every year, that has been building audio equipment since the late 70s, would allow the chance of poisoning their clients if they do so much as accidentally turn the volume knob too high? I sympathize with your concerns, health is no joke, but do you really think that within their fantastic (and sizeable) team there's not one person that would've brought up this potential issue with beryllium some time during the like 4 years these headphones were in the making? Not being sarcastic and this is not a rhetorical question, I just honestly cannot see how you can think they've not considered everything that has to be considered when it comes to beryllium's stability when using inside a driver.
 
What you said regarding beryllium is not rocket science, you're not making some ground breaking discovery that will "crash the party". Come on now.
 
Aug 10, 2016 at 11:44 PM Post #1,783 of 5,632
Are there any peer reviewed studies or filings with governmental bodies certifying this to be the case (with respect to dust)? I would have to imagine that the portable headphone form factor would be a novel use case and thus lacking a statistically significant number of incident reports. Are there any deformation models available indicating the driver failure modes? 
Absolutely! And clearly my assumption is correct, you know nothing about France. I find this a little humorous but being that I am not the quintessential expert, allow me to suggest you contact Focal for these certs and I'm more than sure they'd happily direct you to the appropriate environmental health and safety official to assist with your curiosity. It would be egregious at best for this testing not been preemptively implemented or for that matter knowingly placing a dangerous material into a consumers home or proximity is criminal isn't it? A person that puts forward a comment like this is typically indicating a legal tort or simply antagonistic. In this I'm amused in that at least my education would find a great humor in the loss of that tort and no interest any antagonistic conjecture.
 
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Aug 10, 2016 at 11:44 PM Post #1,784 of 5,632
Science is hard. To give an example, we put drugs through exceptionally stringent review processes, but sometimes still discover too late that they cause harm. Here's an example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rofecoxib
 
This happens with mass marketed consumer products too:
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2016/05/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-takata-air-bag-recall/index.htm
 
This says nothing about the competence of the people who came up with these products. They were probably not even close to being idiots, for example. 
 
Requesting a vendor's specs or safety-related study information isn't trolling, it's just common sense. It's the kind of thing people do with minivans for their families. Presumably head-fi ers have families, too? Wouldn't you want to do a bit of research on any known hazards with a product before introducing it into your family's environment? 
 
Either the vendor has the info, or they don't. If no one on here has a connection such that they can get the vendor's info on this, that's fine. I just thought someone here might. 
 
Aug 10, 2016 at 11:54 PM Post #1,785 of 5,632
Quote:
Absolutely! And clearly my assumption is correct, you know nothing about France. I find this a little humorous but being that I am not the quintessential expert, allow me to suggest you contact Focal for these certs and I'm more than sure they'd happily direct you to the appropriate environmental health and safety official to assist with your curiosity. It would be egregious at best for this testing not been preemptively implemented or for that matter knowingly placing a dangerous material into a consumers home or proximity is criminal isn't it? A person that puts forward a comment like this is typically indicating a legal tort or simply antagonistic. In this I'm amused in that at least my education would find a great humor in the loss of that tort and no interest any antagonistic conjecture.
 

 

 

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