[Beagle]

Can we contain the sponsors somewhere else(just get rid of them in the threads?), not where normal people are honestly giving opinions that are not biased to sales?

I like threads to be clean.

I want people that actually pay for products to give opinions.

Does that go for reviewers as well?

 

[SilverEars]

Does that go for reviewers as well?

Yes, it is my understanding that reviewers are favored, given items to keep, etc..If you read the reviews, you'd realize if it's straight-forward or not. Or just bunch of not useful info to determine performance of headphones. There are things they probably not say or put it transparently. This is wrong, it's like a scam. In the audio world unfortunately, this goes on.

Best thing is, just common sense when reading stuff. Pick up if what they are writing is worthwhile or not. That's how you determine if the person giving opinions is trunstworthy or not. It's based on their track record as well. Has what they said, lined up with what you've been hearing, did they guide you honestly?

Common sense will tell you when you read a review if it sounds like an advertisement.

As a consumers, our end is find products that provide most value for our money. If the person that is providing information is bias, their agenda is opposite ours.

If we didn't consume efficiently, prices will be over the roof.

 

[Beagle]

I think that posting opinions in a thread and reviewing are similar, in that one is giving their opinions based on their preferences. You have to decide if those preferences match your own.

But I think a sponsor or dealer has a valid opinion, in at least they have the products and have heard them, and can tell you what the differences are in different models. I think it is easy to tell when they are being a shill and trying to use a forum to move an item. I don't really see than here on Head-Fi.

 

[up late]

i don't have a problem with sponsors and dealers popping up occasionally in threads, but when they start dominating the discussion by arguing with head-fi members in an abrasive manner then they've overstepped the mark imo and should confine their activities to the sponsor announcements and deals forum

 

[dontfeedphils]

i don't have a problem with sponsors and dealers popping up occasionally in threads, but when they start dominating the discussion by arguing with head-fi members in an abrasive manner then they've overstepped the mark imo and should confine their activities to the sponsor announcements and deals forum

I'd have to agree. They should be here to help answer questions, product announcements, etc. It also depends on the person, obviously. Our friend in this thread seems to mean well most of the time, but he obviously gets caught up in petty arguments quite often and it's really off-putting.

If you're on this forum as a professional/business owner you should be treating everyone with the utmost respect, regardless of how you're treated. Get treated like crap? Then ignore it or move on, you're the professional trying to run a business and (I'm assuming) earn some of our business. Hard to do that when you continually lose respect for that person because they can't think for 5 minutes before posting a rebuttal to an argument that has no reason to take place anyway.

 

[franz12]

A 'burning' issue for me: I basically just got the Clear, it has had maybe 15hrs head time. I notice that while it is generally very neutral, there is a forwardness in the mids and low treble section around 3-5k. Vocals can be very shouty, sometimes hurting my ears at volumes that pose no problem on other headphones.

Does this balance out with more burn-in? Any feedback would be appreciated!


P.S: Just a general comment about the last few pages in this thread: Maybe it would be a good idea for some members to take a step back and act as adults discussing a hobby. Not some life or death issue. Just my 2 cents.

ln my experience, it pretty much settled down around 15 hours and no change.(but no drastic change. I am not sure if any to be honest. Brain burn in more likely) Shouty vocals could me because of a upper mid dip as it is showing in its frequency chart.

 

[TSAVJason]

200$ more for lady Gaga version of clear, I don’t get it

#tsavjason is always nice and polite, you should read the chord bunch)

Hahaha love the Lady Gaga comment

 

[TSAVJason]

A 'burning' issue for me: I basically just got the Clear, it has had maybe 15hrs head time. I notice that while it is generally very neutral, there is a forwardness in the mids and low treble section around 3-5k. Vocals can be very shouty, sometimes hurting my ears at volumes that pose no problem on other headphones.

Does this balance out with more burn-in? Any feedback would be appreciated!



P.S: Just a general comment about the last few pages in this thread: Maybe it would be a good idea for some members to take a step back and act as adults discussing a hobby. Not some life or death issue. Just my 2 cents.

I think you’ll find a mellowing out of that shouty behavior at about 50 hours and at about 100 hours you’ll begin to see a significant sonic change that continues over time to sweeten up more and more. In that sense it’s similar to the Utopia.

 

[franz12]

I own the Elear's and would like very much to get the Clear's, can someone who has listened to both or owned them say the Clear's are a worth while upgrade, I will be keeping the Elear's my favorites of what I own so far..enjoy & thanks

In the LCD2C thread, there was a man who has Elear, Clear, Aeon Flow Open, and LCD2C. Someone asked which one he would pick one among Clear, Aeon Flow Open, and LCD2C. His answer was Aeon Flow Open, one of his reasons was he already had Elear. If you have already Elear and Aeon Flow Open, it is probably not a big step up. But if cost is no object, there is no reason not to buy Clear.

 

[BunnyNamedCraig]

Craig, hows the Elemental Watson Amp with the Clear?

Listening to it now, with the Questyle 400i as a DAC. I really like that the Watson still keeps the speed of the Clear. I am listening to Joe Bonamassa's "Blues Deluxe" and his guitar stays blazing fast.

When bouncing between listening straight out of the Chord Mojo versus the watson II and the dac section from 400i, I can hear a slight warmth over the sound with Watson II. What I mean by that is the "ssssss" sound in voices is not there and the same goes for bass and mids. Out of the Mojo Vocals off "Gold Digger" Kanye West, his voice is very detailed. When I used the Watson II combo his voice is a little smoothed over and there is less defined separation of instruments. Listening to "Rap God" by Eminem (in a rap mood I am realizing ha) I get the same effect. I seem to hear slightly more bass out of this song with the Watson II then I do the Mojo. For the quanity/versus quality of the bass it adds I think its perfect. I find it more engaging because of which.

Listening to "In a trance by "Spark" This is a song with a very fast piano, drumming and bass guitar. The separation is once again tighter on the mojo. The Watson II I can still pick it all out, but it doesn't have as much definition.

This reminds me of when my one friend came with me to a Charlotte headfi meet a couple years ago. He heard a ton of systems and he said something to the effect of "I don't like how everything sticks out. It makes me focus more on that then the music as a whole."

I love a system that can give me details but doesn't make it in your face. The mojo I think is just about perfect in this regard. The Watson II has less detail by comparison but when listening to this combo alone I am not missing it.

"musicallity" from the Watson II is totally there. I can easily feel engaged from it. I don't feel the need to analyze the sound instead of letting it hit my ears and roll with it.

Something that will be tough for some listeners for using the Clears with the Watson II is the volume control. The Clear is easy to drive and the watson II has a lot of oomph. I can only get the volume to about 8:30 and I don't need to bump it up any more. I do enjoy it with the Clear and for the price $250 for a dual mono class A tube hybrid I feel it totally has its place...

This would be excellent for a work space (since its footprint is close to the size of a modern day smart phone) or someone starting out that wants a excellent little amp for price/performance.

Man "Paper Tiger" by Beck sounds fantastic with Watson II ha. This is totally my new jam folks!

 

[givemetacos]

A 'burning' issue for me: I basically just got the Clear, it has had maybe 15hrs head time. I notice that while it is generally very neutral, there is a forwardness in the mids and low treble section around 3-5k. Vocals can be very shouty, sometimes hurting my ears at volumes that pose no problem on other headphones.

Does this balance out with more burn-in? Any feedback would be appreciated!

Hmm, the Clear is actually still a bit recessed in the 3-5kHz presence region, though not nearly as bad as Elear, yet quite a bit lower than say Utopia and even HD650 (FR comparison graph below for reference). Are you sure you the shouty vocals you are hearing are coming from that region? I usually never find the 3-5k frequencies to contribute to shoutiness, rather just how forward or back the vocals sound in the mix (particularly females). You can test this with digital EQ quite easily. I did this with my Elear listening to Adele and the 3-5k bumps just moved her voice more closer in the mix, whereas messing with the 1-2k area changed the timbre and caused more strain and shoutiness.

About halfway down in Solderdude's frequency graphs explained, he talks about how certain frequency areas with dips/peaks translates into what we actually perceive in our hearing. Regarding shoutiness, he says this:
"In short….
dips are not easily noticed and mostly do not harm the sound in a very negative way.
Peaks (of over 3dB) are easily heard and define the sonic character, more often than not in a negative way.
Dips in the 200Hz region for instance will give the sense of a ‘dis-attacted’ bass but generally sounds clear with big bass. A peak, however, will give it a boomy/muddy sound.
A dip in the 2kHz region will give the headphone a laid-back sound somewhat lacking ‘bite’ and is generally find pleasant where a peak in that same region gives the mids a sharp and ‘shouty’ edge to music."

With that, I wager that the shoutiness you are hearing could be due to how all the Focals (Elear, Clear, and Utopia) have a very slight bass curve centered around 100 Hz, that hits a min right around 700 Hz, and then gradually increases upwards to 1.5kHz before the linear decrease back down to 5kHz (this is assuming compensation curves rather than raw). Most headphones are similar, except usually they tend to stay flatter from 700Hz to 1Khz, and then make that downward slope. The Focals instead add a few dB of extra energy in that 1-2Khz range and accordingly I think it adds just a touch of shout to vocals. I didn't really have any issues with this when I heard the Clear, but perhaps burn-in might help. Or due to individual unit to unit variation, perhaps your unit might have gotten an extra 1-2 dB in that area that just makes it more noticeable. Or your own biology might be more sensitive to that frequency area as well that compounds the problem. There are lots of factors at play, but if that is your only issue with Clear, and after burn-in nothing changes, I would suggest you try to EQ that 1-2 Khz bump down a few dB and see if that helps.

 

[franz12]

.

 

[vrln]

Yes, it is my understanding that reviewers are favored, given items to keep, etc..

Agreed... This is a big issue in high end audio. You can tell that a lot of reviews are based on free samples and those reviewers are typically enthusiasts who will praise most or almost all products they review (and thus get more free stuff). While some of these reviews may be honest, they are still inherently biased towards giving favorable reviews and ignoring the value proposition of the products in question. In other words the whole mechanism can be seen as a form of shilling. Websites like InnerFidelity on the other hand have quite a different agenda since keeping the item for them is no big deal. It is for your average hobbyist reviewer though...

As for dealers reviewing/mentioning their views on products I have no problem with that as long as they are openly marked as members of the trade. That´s a very different thing.

 

[SilverEars]

@givemetacos

By shouty, I always wonder what it means or what in the FR is responsible for it. You'd have to have an agreement on the meaning of the sound.

I have heard megaphone effects of vocals and I believe what was responsible was upper mid bump combined with too much cut in the upper mids or presence region. Is this shouty? This is not something I've heard from Clear. And like you say dip in the 2khz and around there(shouldn't be declining there). Listen to the Audeze iSines or LCDi4 without EQ. That's woky mids and I believe is considered shouty. Interesting thing is, people say straight out of Hugo 2 is great. Hmmmmm. I question that.

Tyll's graphs are just not intuitive for me. For comparisons fine.

 

[XERO1]

In the LCD2C thread, there was a man who has Elear, Clear, Aeon Flow Open, and LCD2C. Someone asked which one he would pick one among Clear, Aeon Flow Open, and LCD2C. His answer was Aeon Flow Open, one of his reasons was he already had Elear. If you have already Elear and Aeon Flow Open, it is probably not a big step up. But if cost is no object, there is no reason not to buy Clear.

I did extensive side-by-side comparisons of these same headphones at The Source AV (except they had the LCD-2F, not the LCD-2C) and to my ears, the Clear's sounded significantly, across-the-board better than the other 3.
And I thought they were definitely worth the extra cash for the improvement they offered. For me, the Clear's are the new king of the Under-$2000 Open-Back headphone market.