flinkenick's 17 Flagship IEM Shootout Thread (and general high-end portable audio discussion)
Jun 24, 2020 at 9:53 AM Post #22,936 of 39,411
Agree with most of your take on this @mvvRAZ - I preferred setting 2, but overall the Erl is an astounding technical performer, while the Thummim is just bonkers fun (while also being no technical slouch either)
 
Jun 24, 2020 at 11:24 AM Post #22,937 of 39,411
Sometimes when I read this thread I feel like I'm watching an old episode of Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous-- very enticing but unattainable. One day maybe my fortunes will conspire so I can demo one or both of these.
Your stash ain’t too bad, @Rockwell75 .

Also remember: it’s not just about the money, it’s about the crazy.
 
Jun 24, 2020 at 12:35 PM Post #22,938 of 39,411
I honestly don’t have a problem with expensive gear. After living in London for three years I have seen some of the most ridiculous stuff money can buy and it does absolutely nothing for me, but if it makes someone else happy then good for them. Even the oBravo Ra doesn’t bother me. Still think it is good fun to joke about it though... :grin:
I have a bit of an issue once earphones exceed $2k. You can do whatever you need for that. My issue for once you pay more than that, is that you're you're still buying a flavor. I would think any value above that would be for extreme accuracy and coherence for those tweaky enough to notice the adverse effects of tone controls etc and are looking for max purity. IEMs, especially, are intyended as portable devices so you are also source limited if used that way. At some point, buy a Naim Atom with it's own server plus something like Quad S2s and have a real HI Fi with a proper perspective and plenty of detail for $4k.

At some point your'e just crawling down the Rabbit hole due to the limitations of formats.
 
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Jun 24, 2020 at 1:28 PM Post #22,939 of 39,411
Your stash ain’t too bad, @Rockwell75 .

Also remember: it’s not just about the money, it’s about the crazy.

I'm actually totally content with my "stash", at least as far as sound goes...but often it's not about needs so much as wants spurred on by that ever-present curiosity and desire to try something new that drives this and other luxury hobbies. That dopamine rush that attends trying out new gear is tangible.
 
Jun 24, 2020 at 1:39 PM Post #22,940 of 39,411
I have a bit of an issue once earphones exceed $2k. You can do whatever you need for that. My issue for once you pay more than that, is that you're you're still buying a flavor. I would think any value above that would be for extreme accuracy and coherence for those tweaky enough to notice the adverse effects of tone controls etc and are looking for max purity. IEMs, especially, are intyended as portable devices so you are also source limited if used that way. At some point, buy a Naim Atom with it's own server plus something like Quad S2s and have a real HI Fi with a proper perspective and plenty of detail for $4k.

At some point your'e just crawling down the Rabbit hole due to the limitations of formats.
One doesn't preclude the other though, and I move around way too much to justify any kind of expensive or high end home setup. Not only that, I don't live by myself and it's not optimal to blast something in their ears 10-14 hours a day
 
Jun 24, 2020 at 2:29 PM Post #22,941 of 39,411
I have a bit of an issue once earphones exceed $2k. You can do whatever you need for that. My issue for once you pay more than that, is that you're you're still buying a flavor. I would think any value above that would be for extreme accuracy and coherence for those tweaky enough to notice the adverse effects of tone controls etc and are looking for max purity. IEMs, especially, are intyended as portable devices so you are also source limited if used that way. At some point, buy a Naim Atom with it's own server plus something like Quad S2s and have a real HI Fi with a proper perspective and plenty of detail for $4k.

At some point your'e just crawling down the Rabbit hole due to the limitations of formats.
Sure, fair point. Although of course to some extent the high prices are about breaking through the limitations of the format (aside from being luxury items like any other). For instance, I found that the Thummim offer a unique presentation that goes beyond anything I have heard so far. Whether or not it is worth the premium price is much more a personal decision because it depends on the satisfaction a person gets from them, whether they are committed to portable and how deep their pockets are. Moreover, not everyone will want speakers. I am committed to something that provides me with a personal listening environment. That has always been IEMs because of various practical limitations (living space, etc) and I might in the near future move to headphones, but it will never be speakers. Even the headphones I am not entirely sure about because I might not cope well with the bulk and weight of those. As such I expect that IEMs will stay my main focus and I therefore like seeing manufacturers push the format beyond its perceived limits (love the LCD-i4 for just that reason). That does not mean I am cheering on the way the prices are increasing, but I don't have a problem with it either. It is a bit like with speakers. You might be content with Quad S2s, but you can also scale up well beyond those into price ranges where most people spend such amounts on their house and at the end of the day those will still be speakers. Very big speakers, but speakers nonetheless. If you get my meaning. For IEMs (generally speaking) it is really a question of what the increase in price delivers over less expensive models and I can't really comment on that because I haven't heard much beyond $2k.
 
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Jun 24, 2020 at 2:35 PM Post #22,942 of 39,411
One doesn't preclude the other though, and I move around way too much to justify any kind of expensive or high end home setup. Not only that, I don't live by myself and it's not optimal to blast something in their ears 10-14 hours a day
Never said it did. More about absolute limits.Comments like mine are always a personnel point of view. $2k was perhaps a little low but there are limits to what can be achieved with an IEM or headphones in general unless listening to binaural source material and I've always found cross channel manipulation just makes it worse. If I were only able to listen that way, I'd have something in the mid hundreds for out and about like my Spartans and a set of Shure electrostatics, Zues, etc or open back headphones like ps500/2000 and call it a day. Maybe find some old low voltage Lambda's.Still think it's the most natural Stax I've heard and I've had a few+.
 
Jun 24, 2020 at 2:37 PM Post #22,943 of 39,411
Sure, fair point. Although of course to some extent the high prices are about breaking through the limitations of the format (aside from being luxury items like any other). For instance, I found that the Thummim offer a unique presentation that goes beyond anything I have heard so far. Whether or not it is worth the premium price is much more a personal decision because it depends on the satisfaction a person gets from them, whether they are committed to portable and how deep their pockets are. Moreover, not everyone will want speakers. I am committed to something that provides me with a personal listening environment. That has always been IEMs because of various practical limitations (living space, etc) and I might in the near future move to headphones, but it will never be speakers. Even the headphones I am not entirely sure about because I might not cope well with the bulk and weight of those. As such I expect that IEMs will stay my main focus and I therefore like seeing manufacturers push the format beyond its perceived limits (love the LCD-i4 for just that reason). That does not mean I am cheering on the way the prices are increasing, but I don't have a problem with it either. It is a bit like with speakers. You might be content with Quad S2s, but you can also scale up well beyond those into price ranges where most people spend such amounts on their house and at the end of the day those will still be speakers. Very big speakers, but speakers nonetheless. If you get my meaning. For IEMs (generally speaking) it is really a question of what the increase in price delivers over less expensive models and I can't really comment on that because I haven't heard much beyond $2k.

That's basically where I'm at...speakers will never be an option for me due to living circumstances, headphones are tempting but it's hard to justify the $$ commitment considering the loss of portability and that presently my IEMs don't leave me feeling like I'm missing anything.
 
Jun 24, 2020 at 2:39 PM Post #22,944 of 39,411
That's basically where I'm at...speakers will never be an option for me due to living circumstances, headphones are tempting but it's hard to justify the $$ commitment considering the loss of portability and that presently my IEMs don't leave me feeling like I'm missing anything.
I also flat out like the sound of IEMs better than that of headphones tbh - no full sized HP I’ve tried has even come close
 
Jun 24, 2020 at 2:41 PM Post #22,945 of 39,411
Sure, fair point. Although of course to some extent the high prices are about breaking through the limitations of the format (aside from being luxury items like any other). For instance, I found that the Thummim offer a unique presentation that goes beyond anything I have heard so far. Whether or not it is worth the premium price is much more a personal decision because it depends on the satisfaction a person gets from them, whether they are committed to portable and how deep their pockets are. Moreover, not everyone will want speakers. I am committed to something that provides me with a personal listening environment. That has always been IEMs because of various practical limitations (living space, etc) and I might in the near future move to headphones, but it will never be speakers. Even the headphones I am not entirely sure about because I might not cope well with the bulk and weight of those. As such I expect that IEMs will stay my main focus and I therefore like seeing manufacturers push the format beyond its perceived limits (love the LCD-i4 for just that reason). That does not mean I am cheering on the way the prices are increasing, but I don't have a problem with it either. It is a bit like with speakers. You might be content with Quad S2s, but you can also scale up well beyond those into price ranges where most people spend such amounts on their house and at the end of the day those will still be speakers. Very big speakers, but speakers nonetheless. If you get my meaning. For IEMs (generally speaking) it is really a question of what the increase in price delivers over less expensive models and I can't really comment on that because I haven't heard much beyond $2k.
It's my position that there are certain boundaries you can't break through with in ears, or headphones really, but that doesn't mean they can't get better with $. I just think there's a limit somewhere (lets change this to) under $3k and then you're picking your poison which everyone has every right to do. Just liking it more because you do counts. :ksc75smile:
I'll always have a good set of IEMs. Haven't been without since I bought a new pair of super.fi 3s.
 
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Jun 24, 2020 at 3:22 PM Post #22,946 of 39,411
I also flat out like the sound of IEMs better than that of headphones tbh - no full sized HP I’ve tried has even come close
I agree with you @mvvRAZ. I started my audio journey with full-sized speakers, moved to headphones, and have finally settled in on IEMs. I def prefer sound from IEMs over headphones (at least those that I've tried).
 
Jun 24, 2020 at 3:51 PM Post #22,947 of 39,411
It's my position that there are certain boundaries you can't break through with in ears, or headphones really, but that doesn't mean they can't get better with $. I just think there's a limit somewhere (lets change this to) under $3k and then you're picking your poison which everyone has every right to do. Just liking it more because you do counts. :ksc75smile:
I'll always have a good set of IEMs. Haven't been without since I bought a new pair of super.fi 3s.
Oh, good sound, even great sound does not have to be expensive. I love my Phantom and Fealty because they never leave me wanting, and feel fortunate to have a number of crazy good review samples including the (relatively speaking) cheap FIBAE Black.
 
Jun 24, 2020 at 4:04 PM Post #22,948 of 39,411
I also flat out like the sound of IEMs better than that of headphones tbh - no full sized HP I’ve tried has even come close

In some respects it comes down to preference. IEMs can't touch headphones in terms of staging and sense of space/seperation, headphones can't touch IEMs in terms of things like raw detail and resolution (and portability, convenience etc.). Personally I'm biased more towards the former and the Verite I demoed last summer is still the most enjoyable portable audio listening experience I've had....but IEMs still win the day for me due to their comfort, convenience etc.
 
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Jun 24, 2020 at 4:07 PM Post #22,949 of 39,411
Head-Fi is not a great place for desktop gear advice. I have seen many folks try headphones, get disappointed and move back to IEMs. It’s due to reasons like:
A) A lot of sub-par sounding HP/gear getting a lot of hype
B) Making purchase decisions based on measurements and chasing the 0.0000000000001% distortion
C) Not giving enough importance to system synergy and personal subjective preference
D) Not realizing the importance of a good DAC in the system and only cycling the amp and headphone

I’ve been a victim of A and have committed B, C and D myself. But it was a fun journey.
 
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Jun 24, 2020 at 4:18 PM Post #22,950 of 39,411
Head-Fi is not a great place for desktop gear advice. I have seen many folks try headphones, get disappointed and move back to IEMs. It’s due to reasons like:
A) A lot of sub-par sounding HP/gear getting a lot of hype
B) Making purchase decisions based on measurements and chasing the 0.0000000000001% distortion
C) Not giving enough importance to system synergy and personal subjective preference
D) Not realizing the importance of a good DAC in the system and only cycling the amp and headphone

I’ve been a victim of A and have committed B, C and D myself. But it was a fun journey.
I am trying to figure this stuff out properly and therefore:
1) It is taking a long time because I can’t even decide on the headphones yet.
2) It is getting way too expensive, way too quickly. :grin:

Still fun to shop. Got recommended the HeadAmp GS-X mkII the other day. It looks great and fully fits point “2)”. :sweat_smile:
 
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