[Layman1]

PinkyPowers, can you share a big minus of the Kaiser Encore?

You mean *apart* from it crushing his poor spleen?

 

[natemact]

PinkyPowers, can you share a big minus of the Kaiser Encore

Crafted by a Wizard! I for one steer clear of any Harry Pottering

 

[PinkyPowers]

Crafted by a Wizard! I for one steer clear of any Harry Pottering

I get on my knees, open my mouth, and take all the Pottering!

PS. I love those books and movies.

 

[natemact]

I get on my knees, open my mouth, and take all the Pottering!

I started off practicing correct watching posture as well, but come Prisoner of Azkaban, I knew I wouldn't be able to keep it up

 

[PinkyPowers]

I started off practicing correct watching posture as well, but come Prisoner of Azkaban, I knew I wouldn't be able to keep it up

My favorite book of the series, and possibly my favorite of the movies, too.

 

[natemact]

I believe you've taken me too seriously on all of this
But this does provide us with decent fodder to possibly use against you someday

 

[flinkenick]

Hello Guys!

I was redirected to this thread and I'm glad I was.

So, what is my dilemma?

I own a Sony WM1A walkman and I am looking for a good IEM to pair it with. Currently, I only use the SE port, simply because I don't have a balanced headphone/IEM.

I now have a Sennheiser IE800, which for the most part I am content. However, it does have a major flaw - its mids are lacking the forwardness, it is sterile, recessed or congested. The voices of singers seem to have a veil, something I really don't like. I happen to have met other head-fiers complaining of the same problem. On the other hand I kind of like the treble of the IE800 and its general open sound.

So my question to all you, masters, is what should I choose to replace the IE800. I almost never listen to EDM-type of music, but rather classical, rock, old-time electronic music (Tangerine Dream, K. Schulze etc.), acoustic music, jazz. Reproduction of the voice should definitely be more forward than the IE800. I really hate that recessed sound of the Senns. Plus they have an ergonomics which do not do them justice. Anyway, we all know these problems...

Up to now, without actually listening to them, I have narrowed my search to the following: the CA Andromeda, the Noble Kaiser Encore and the CA Atlas. Of course, I am quite open to absolutely other suggestion. I'm pretty sure I won't join the (C)IEM camp.

My budget is less than 2000 USD and I am mostly interested in a good synergy with my Sony WM1A.

I really appreciate any advice or opinion. I know I'll get some and I thank you in advance.

Just a few thoughts, I think it would be good to figure out what type of sound you generally like, regardless of music; specifically, warm vs. bright. For instance, when I read your description, the Encore wouldn't come to mind. To me, Encore is more of a 'fun' sig with a detail-oriented sound and punchy bass. But I find it on the brighter side, and its vocals quite lean. It might be an improvement over the IE800 in that aspect, but only a slight one. When I think of an iem for those genres that reproduces excellent vocals, I would think of the UE18+ (2nd gen), Prelude, Phantom, or Zeus. However, while the Prelude and Phantom provide a natural sound, they are also predominantly on the warmer sound. So someone with different priorities (e.g. detail over tone, bass over midrange) might still prefer Encore over those two, even for jazz or rock.

Next, for $2K I would personally rather buy two complimentary iems like the Prelude and NT6-pro, preferably second hand. In the end, it's very difficult to find one that does it all. There are a lot of gems slightly north of $1K that when combined, offer far more value than one $2K one. For instance, Andromeda, Aether, 8.2, and A6t, besides the aforementioned two. I always use to scour the for sale section and try a bunch of stuff. Bought my NT6-pro for around $600, still one of my favourites. But I guess that's also just personal, I find audio too expensive to buy new hehe. My AK's and Sony were also second hand.

-edit-
I initially phrased that wrong, you gave a good impression what you like. Just added some perspective. A second thing I sometimes tend to notice with owners of IE800 and SE846, is that they grow accustomed to a certain amount of sub-bass quantity. Then when they try a 'new' BA iem, they get disappointed by a lack of bass. Maybe also good to think about how much you value the IE800's bass currently, and if you would miss it.

 

[tgrosu]

Just a few thoughts, I think it would be good to figure out what type of sound you generally like, regardless of music; specifically, warm vs. bright. For instance, when I read your description, the Encore wouldn't come to mind. To me, Encore is more of a 'fun' sig with a detail-oriented sound and punchy bass. But I find it on the brighter side, and its vocals quite lean. It might be an improvement over the IE800 in that aspect, but only a slight one. When I think of an iem for those genres that reproduces excellent vocals, I would think of the UE18+ (2nd gen), Prelude, Phantom, or Zeus. However, while the Prelude and Phantom provide a natural sound, they are also predominantly on the warmer sound. So someone with different priorities (e.g. detail over tone, bass over midrange) might still prefer Encore over those two, even for jazz or rock.

Next, for $2K I would personally rather buy two complimentary iems like the Prelude and NT6-pro, preferably second hand. In the end, it's very difficult to find one that does it all. There are a lot of gems slightly north of $1K that when combined, offer far more value than one $2K one. For instance, Andromeda, Aether, 8.2, and A6t, besides the aforementioned two. I always use to scour the for sale section and try a bunch of stuff. Bought my NT6-pro for around $600, still one of my favourites. But I guess that's also just personal, I find audio too expensive to buy new hehe. My AK's and Sony were also second hand.

-edit-
I initially phrased that wrong, you gave a good impression what you like. Just added some perspective. A second thing I sometimes tend to notice with owners of IE800 and SE846, is that they grow accustomed to a certain amount of sub-bass quantity. Then when they try a 'new' BA iem, they get disappointed by a lack of bass. Maybe also good to think about how much you value the IE800's bass currently, and if you would miss it.

Dear flinkenick,

A very comprehensive post, with several insights along the way. More than welcomed, truly!

To be honest, although I have listened to a lot of music up to now, it would be a problem for me to say if I'm looking after the bright or the warm sound signature. Acknowledging that the IE800 is close to neutral, I would say that I don't mind the bright sound sig. As for the warm, I understand that the likes of Vega or atlas from CA are in this pool. I never listened to any of them, unfortunately. In fact, that was my problem to start with - I find it quite difficult to put into words what I tend to like, musically.

As regards your other recommendation, I have seen different approaches on this site, i.e. rather than be content with several - sub-par TOTL IEMs - it's better to start big and go for the best (if that term really has a meaning in this world of relative, subjective preferences). I don't know what is the best approach.

But, just to turn a full circle, I want to say that I have just bought a Tia U12t. Let's see when I get it if it's the end of the search or just the beginning.

Anyway, thanks a lot to you and also to all the contributors to my better knowledge of the field. I have a lot to learn. Period.

 

[tim0chan]

Dear flinkenick,

A very comprehensive post, with several insights along the way. More than welcomed, truly!

To be honest, although I have listened to a lot of music up to now, it would be a problem for me to say if I'm looking after the bright or the warm sound signature. Acknowledging that the IE800 is close to neutral, I would say that I don't mind the bright sound sig. As for the warm, I understand that the likes of Vega or atlas from CA are in this pool. I never listened to any of them, unfortunately. In fact, that was my problem to start with - I find it quite difficult to put into words what I tend to like, musically.

As regards your other recommendation, I have seen different approaches on this site, i.e. rather than be content with several - sub-par TOTL IEMs - it's better to start big and go for the best (if that term really has a meaning in this world of relative, subjective preferences). I don't know what is the best approach.

But, just to turn a full circle, I want to say that I have just bought a Tia U12t. Let's see when I get it if it's the end of the search or just the beginning.

Anyway, thanks a lot to you and also to all the contributors to my better knowledge of the field. I have a lot to learn. Period.

welcome to headfi, sorry 'bout your wallet, and rmb, the only endgame is no endgame

 

[flinkenick]

Dear flinkenick,

A very comprehensive post, with several insights along the way. More than welcomed, truly!

To be honest, although I have listened to a lot of music up to now, it would be a problem for me to say if I'm looking after the bright or the warm sound signature. Acknowledging that the IE800 is close to neutral, I would say that I don't mind the bright sound sig. As for the warm, I understand that the likes of Vega or atlas from CA are in this pool. I never listened to any of them, unfortunately. In fact, that was my problem to start with - I find it quite difficult to put into words what I tend to like, musically.

As regards your other recommendation, I have seen different approaches on this site, i.e. rather than be content with several - sub-par TOTL IEMs - it's better to start big and go for the best (if that term really has a meaning in this world of relative, subjective preferences). I don't know what is the best approach.

But, just to turn a full circle, I want to say that I have just bought a Tia U12t. Let's see when I get it if it's the end of the search or just the beginning.

Anyway, thanks a lot to you and also to all the contributors to my better knowledge of the field. I have a lot to learn. Period.

Yes I agree with that approach. But, it requires some subscript. Once you reach a certain level, iems below the top can still have an advantage over higher-end ones by means of their signature and tone, and preference starts to play a more important role. The Campfire dynamics are a good example of that, since bass-enthusiasts will value their powerful bass. And when I had a number of 64 iems on trial, I tend to reach for the A6t more often. So basically, skip everything below $1K and after that it's fair game

That being said, I think the U12t is an excellent iem and I think it will suit you very well.

 

[tgrosu]

Yes I agree with that approach. But, it requires some subscript. Once you reach a certain level, iems below the top can still have an advantage over higher-end ones by means of their signature and tone, and preference starts to play a more important role. The Campfire dynamics are a good example of that, since bass-enthusiasts will value their powerful bass. And when I had a number of 64 iems on trial, I tend to reach for the A6t more often. So basically, skip everything below $1K and after that it's fair game

That being said, I think the U12t is an excellent iem and I think it will suit you very well.

Thank you, flinkenick!
Actually I've made a typo, and a big one, it's theTia 18t, I can't even imagine why I wrote 12 instead of 18. Maybe I'm not yet used to it. And not really yet realizing that I have really bought it...

 

[natemact]

@tgrosu I'm definitely not the guy to provide you with sage iem advice but ya, knowing your preferred sound signature is key. It's what separates the music lovers from the gear lovers.

There are 3 categories of audio enthusiast:

• Lovers of both -- know their preferred sound signatures or are well on their way to pinpointing them. Sound signatures because although many have a good grasp of their ideal SS, we can typically appreciate variations on it as well. Some will even like more drastic shifts ex: different genres
  
• Gear lovers -- definitely know their preferred SS and will only stop the madness when they find themselves having to stoop to stealing condiments and napkins from restaurants*
  
• Music lovers -- do not know their preferred SS, 50/50 that it's all that important either as some folks just want to hear "better" sounding music...just feed 'em bass then LOL. What's most important is the music mantgrosu, this is where you are right now. We all start here : ) How do you get to love the gear too?.....

You have to listen to a lot of it. Listen to hps if you can't iems. Listen to loudspeakers if you can't hps (you should listen to some good loudspeakers/systems anyway, it'll help). Talk with people about the gear you've heard if you don't know your preferred SS, what exactly you're listening for or how to describe what you hear. Most importantly, listen to live instruments, unplugged (that's what were seeking with all this anyway, a sense of realism). A great 2ch system will actually attach bodies to singers, fingers to strings and so on. Increasing realism. Try to recall the sound of live instruments when listening to gear. Pick music to audition gear with that is acoustically recorded on top of your favs.

Hope you like your U18t though! Then you don't have to do any of this

*crap, I'm sooo guilty of napkin nabbing. I've got a drawer busting full of 'em from every fast food restaurant within a 25km diameter....so why must I continue teefing them lol?? I also like to plan ahead, syncing up napkin with cuisine. Tonight, tacos with Taco Bell napkins. The diarrhea is more authentic this way.

 

[tgrosu]

@tgrosu I'm definitely not the guy to provide you with sage iem advice but ya, knowing your preferred sound signature is key. It's what separates the music lovers from the gear lovers.

There are 3 categories of audio enthusiast:

• Lovers of both -- know their preferred sound signatures or are well on their way to pinpointing them. Sound signatures because although many have a good grasp of their ideal SS, we can typically appreciate variations on it as well. Some will even like more drastic shifts ex: different genres
  
• Gear lovers -- definitely know their preferred SS and will only stop the madness when they find themselves having to stoop to stealing condiments and napkins from restaurants*
  
• Music lovers -- do not know their preferred SS, 50/50 that it's all that important either as some folks just want to hear "better" sounding music...just feed 'em bass then LOL. What's most important is the music mantgrosu, this is where you are right now. We all start here : ) How do you get to love the gear too?.....

You have to listen to a lot of it. Listen to hps if you can't iems. Listen to loudspeakers if you can't hps (you should listen to some good loudspeakers/systems anyway, it'll help). Talk with people about the gear you've heard if you don't know your preferred SS, what exactly you're listening for our how to describe what you hear. Most importantly, listen to live instruments, unplugged (that's what were seeking with all this anyway, a sense of realism). A great 2ch system will actually attach bodies to singers, fingers to strings and so on. Increasing realism. Try to recall the sound of live instruments when listening to gear. Pick music to audition gear with that is acoustically recorded as well your favs.

Hope you like your U18t though! Then you don't have to do any of this

*crap, I'm sooo guilty of napkin nabbing. I've got a drawer busting full of napkins from every fast food restaurant within a 25km diameter....so why do I continue teefing them lol?? I also like to plan ahead, syncing up napkin with cuisine. Tonight, tacos with Taco Bell napkins. The diarrhea is more authentic this way.

Dear natemact,

That was gorgeous!

Extremely nice and voluble community here, that I am sure of.
The gentleman that sold me the IEMs was more than a helping hand...he has basically included a surprise for me in the form of an extra audio cable, saying that it's better to be put to use rather than just sitting (unused) on a desk.
That's what I call community and I am happy to be part of it.
There are times when you just have to give something to the others. But then, after a time, you might be the one on the receiving end, I am sure of that.
I am just receiving from you, for the moment...But I am sure my time will come. Not that far away in the future, I hope...

Thank you!

 

[SeeSax]

@natemact I am most definitely a gear lover in your analogy. I just pulled out a packet of soy sauce with questionable origins from my desk at work to spice up my bland cafe food...

-Collin-

 

[natemact]

@natemact I am most definitely a gear lover in your analogy. I just pulled out a packet of soy sauce with questionable origins from my desk at work to spice up my bland cafe food...

-Collin-

Might not be the only thing it'll be spicing up