[bluestorm1992]

I’m surprised that you haven’t gotten one already.

Me too. @Damz87 why don’t you buy one and bundle it with the W2 leather case.

 

[fzman]

They who must not be named

MOT rules. Cannot post about brands sold by the company I works for

 

[Damz87]

I’m surprised that you haven’t gotten one already.

Me too. @Damz87 why don’t you buy one and bundle it with the W2 leather case.

Lol! Oh believe me I would love to hear one, but I'm going to force myself to wait for more android/streaming R2R options. Besides, I'm still honeymooning with N6ii Ti, and I really need to save my wallet from any further torture

 

[gnahra]

but I'm going to force myself to wait for more android/streaming R2R options

+1 here
I’m very intrigued by all this R2R hype

 

[jwilliamhurst]

For those of you that have something with a DD bass about, and you'd like to extend the fireworks from the 4th (Independence Day here in the States), dial up Vanska, Minnesota Orchestra, Mahler’s 10th on Qobuz in 96k, the dynamics with the DX220 MAX>Satin Audio Zeus>Thummim and strap in!

Alright! I’m taking the ride…….BUT! With a bird

 

[Rockwell75]

Alright! I’m taking the ride…….BUT! With a bird

How is the Crassirostris?

 

[jwilliamhurst]

How is the Crassirostris?

I receive it on Friday! I will post some impressions soon thereafter in the general Oriolus thread

 

[Rockwell75]

I receive it on Friday! I will post some impressions soon thereafter in the general Oriolus thread

I'm craving another Oriolus experience and the Trailli is right out of the question for me so I was looking into the Crassirostris. It's got a fairly legendary pedigree so I'm seriously considering just plunging on it...we'll see how long I can hold out lol

 

[MatW]

I'm intrigued by the positive comments (or should I say hype ) about R2R recently. I know R2R mainly from the Denafrips DACs in the desktop world. As far as I can tell, in that setting, R2R is considered interesting, as a 'tube-like', warmish alternative to delta-sigma/FPGA DACs, but the latter are usually still the top dogs in reviews and evaluations.

With regard to the interest in R2R DAPs, I guess the question I have in my mind is: will this be a short-lived 'hype', or is R2R the future for DAPs, and if so, why does there seem to be more enthusiasm for R2R in the portable world than the desktop world?

For anyone interested (and you really have to be to digest these...), here are links to two videos where the different DAC types are being discussed and evaluated.

Rob Watts, of Chord fame:



Comparison of top DACs: Denafrips Terminator Plus (R2R), Mola Mola Tambaqui and Chord DAVE, both FPGA. Spoiler: the DAVE wins... (for the reviewer's preferences).

 

[mvvRAZ]

I'm intrigued by the positive comments (or should I say hype ) about R2R recently. I know R2R mainly from the Denafrips DACs in the desktop world. As far as I can tell, in that setting, R2R is considered interesting, as a 'tube-like', warmish alternative to delta-sigma/FPGA DACs, but the latter are usually still the top dogs in reviews and evaluations.

With regard to the interest in R2R DAPs, I guess the question I have in my mind is: will this be a short-lived 'hype', or is R2R the future for DAPs, and if so, why does there seem to be more enthusiasm for R2R in the portable world than the desktop world?

For anyone interested (and you really have to be to digest these...), here are links to two videos where the different DAC types are being discussed and evaluated.

Rob Watts, of Chord fame:



Comparison of top DACs: Denafrips Terminator Plus (R2R), Mola Mola Tambaqui and Chord DAVE, both FPGA. Spoiler: the DAVE wins... (for the reviewer's preferences).

The headphone world is generally much more obsessed with how different DACs and amps measure, distortions and all sorts of values like that. R2R AFAIK does not measure all that well, and definitely nowhere near something like a D90/A90 stack - it also absolutely obliterates it on sound based on what I've experienced so far, but I've never been especially bothered by how something measures

I don't know how true it is, but I think nobody actually produces R2R chips currently - I might be wrong though

 

[gLer]

I really think I’ll struggle to go back to non r2r DAPs from now on… I cannot wait to see what the r2r/android future holds.

Likewise. Such a shame Cayin debuted their R2R system on an old platform. Likewise Shanling with the M8. Doesn't make any sense if you're wanting to get people to invest in your products longer term...although cynically I think maybe that's the point. Get a while lot of people to pay for the R&D with minimal capex in new hardware, and once proven, lay it on thick with a modern flagship product using the tech everyone wants. At least that's my theory.

With regard to the interest in R2R DAPs, I guess the question I have in my mind is: will this be a short-lived 'hype', or is R2R the future for DAPs, and if so, why does there seem to be more enthusiasm for R2R in

I think @mvvRAZ has it spot on. Desktop guys care mostly for measurements. R2R is not known for measuring well, being as inifally detailed as the DS stuff, or having much of a noise floor. But that's all changing. I'm.also intrigued that it's catching on in the portable space so enthusiastically. I was very much an R2R convert on the desktop and the only reason I'm using a DS DAP is that there's no suitable R2R DAP with all the Android features and hardware I want in a DAP. Holding thumbs that's changing in a big way soon.

 

[MatW]

I think @mvvRAZ has it spot on. Desktop guys care mostly for measurements. R2R is not known for measuring well, being as inifally detailed as the DS stuff, or having much of a noise floor. But that's all changing. I'm.also intrigued that it's catching on in the portable space so enthusiastically. I was very much an R2R convert on the desktop and the only reason I'm using a DS DAP is that there's no suitable R2R DAP with all the Android features and hardware I want in a DAP. Holding thumbs that's changing in a big way soon.

Yes, some folks focus on measurements, but the good reviewers and experienced headfiers look beyond that. Ultimately, it's a matter of preference, similar to choosing solid state vs tube amps, and a matter of pairing, e.g. most people would not combine an R2R DAC with a tube amp, as this would be too much of a good thing. My impression is that the more common route is to go with a delta sigma DAC and a tube amp, if one wants a more laidback, warm/analog sound presentation, while retaining the detail retrieval capabilities. The alternative, an R2R DAC with a SS amp, is less common I think, but I do sense it's gaining popularity. (Note that none of my impressions are backed up by any data, and I may well be wrong..)

Anyway, it's interesting to see how this develops going forward.

 

[mvvRAZ]

Likewise. Such a shame Cayin debuted their R2R system on an old platform. Likewise Shanling with the M8. Doesn't make any sense if you're wanting to get people to invest in your products longer term...although cynically I think maybe that's the point. Get a while lot of people to pay for the R&D with minimal capex in new hardware, and once proven, lay it on thick with a modern flagship product using the tech everyone wants. At least that's my theory.

I think @mvvRAZ has it spot on. Desktop guys care mostly for measurements. R2R is not known for measuring well, being as inifally detailed as the DS stuff, or having much of a noise floor. But that's all changing. I'm.also intrigued that it's catching on in the portable space so enthusiastically. I was very much an R2R convert on the desktop and the only reason I'm using a DS DAP is that there's no suitable R2R DAP with all the Android features and hardware I want in a DAP. Holding thumbs that's changing in a big way soon.

I'm pretty lucky in that I use DAPs as music and music only - no streaming or any of the other extras. As long as it has folder view I'm game - the P6 Pro didn't really manage to even do that right haha, but the sound in the right pairings was indeed incredible - worth its money though? Ehhhh especially with the N6II R01 - wouldn't say so myself

DAPs in general are a solid 10 years behind in terms of UX though, they're genuinely terrible, awful, antiquated devices. I tried installing Apple Music on the N6II but the Google Play Store crashed 3 times before I could even type in my email so I'm reviewing it as yet another DAP with no real streaming capabilities AK is no better with their built-in Tidal that doesn't let you download anything, and if you use APKs you have to re-download literally anything in order to update the app

Most of these belong in 2010 at best IMO, I'd love to see someone develop a phone-grade DAP, integrate actual phone functions in it, and let me finally phase out my own phone and just use a DAP for both music and my basic phone needs like calling, whatsapp, scrolling Facebook and whatnot

 

[gLer]

I'm pretty lucky in that I use DAPs as music and music only - no streaming or any of the other extras. As long as it has folder view I'm game - the P6 Pro didn't really manage to even do that right haha, but the sound in the right pairings was indeed incredible - worth its money though? Ehhhh especially with the N6II R01 - wouldn't say so myself

DAPs in general are a solid 10 years behind in terms of UX though, they're genuinely terrible, awful, antiquated devices. I tried installing Apple Music on the N6II but the Google Play Store crashed 3 times before I could even type in my email so I'm reviewing it as yet another DAP with no real streaming capabilities AK is no better with their built-in Tidal that doesn't let you download anything, and if you use APKs you have to re-download literally anything in order to update the app

Most of these belong in 2010 at best IMO, I'd love to see someone develop a phone-grade DAP, integrate actual phone functions in it, and let me finally phase out my own phone and just use a DAP for both music and my basic phone needs like calling, whatsapp, scrolling Facebook and whatnot

You're quite right. At the moment there are only two DAPs that pass muster as modern devices in the 'flagship' space: the HiBy R8 and the iBasso DX300. Both will do everything a modern smartphone can do in terms of app speed/compatibility. Everything else is 2-3 years behind these two (though the HiBy R6 and FiiO M11 Plus are right up there too, but with lower end audio hardware).

I'm not willing to compromise on modern UX/platform, but that's just me. I know most people in these parts prioritise audio over UX, but I don't think it should be one over the other when you can get both.

I'm optimistic DAP makers can get their s*** together now that the Covid hit is subsiding and give us some compelling next-gen products in the next 12-18 months.

 

[mvvRAZ]

You're quite right. At the moment there are only two DAPs that pass muster as modern devices in the 'flagship' space: the HiBy R8 and the iBasso DX300. Both will do everything a modern smartphone can do in terms of app speed/compatibility. Everything else is 2-3 years behind these two (though the HiBy R6 and FiiO M11 Plus are right up there too, but with lower end audio hardware).

I'm not willing to compromise on modern UX/platform, but that's just me. I know most people in these parts prioritise audio over UX, but I don't think it should be one over the other when you can get both.

I'm optimistic DAP makers can get their s*** together now that the Covid hit is subsiding and give us some compelling next-gen products in the next 12-18 months.

Can you really get both when you named 2 models that are able to do both and they're both massive? I've accepted I can't get UX for the time being honestly, but I can totally understand the requirement considering the price tags