flinkenick's 17 Flagship IEM Shootout Thread (and general high-end portable audio discussion)
Oct 14, 2019 at 11:41 PM Post #18,196 of 39,414
Had some thoughts I wanted to share. Finally got around to writing them down.

The Bias and Subjectivity of Reviewing

Superb!
Great idea to bring up the subject and I hope it helps people understand better what reviewing is about... I remember trying to explain exactly that recently on french forums following my U9 and U2 reviews (first time I ever got a gift sample of an IEM - the U9 - by the way and that was in the review disclaimer : full disclosure like you do).

Like you mention about negative reviews... those guys told me why didn’t your review the U4 as well? I told them I happened to like it less with its L shaped signature quite far from my preferences and I had 2 out of 3 items to review in 2 weeks which I had never done before. Keep in mind I have a full time job with quite a bit of responsibilities in IT and two kids so reviewing is in my scarce free time :p (I often write during lunch hours, as it turns out...).

The whole point was : I should have written the U4 review, because I would then be more credible about the other reviews. Probably true, but here is the thing : I won’t ever write a review without spending at least 40 hours with the gear so it’s a real time investment so to speak and mine is scarce. I’d rather spend that time with gear I do like so yes there is a bias for me. If I was doing this with more time and more incentive (most of the gear I review I pay full price, so I am limited anyway...and I am not going to purchase stuff that is not in my preferences zone), I sure would do items I like less or require to depart from my preferences if I had review samples and more time, it would be really interesting. But right now for me, not really possible...

I could have written a U4 review but it would probably not have been negative, just an exercise of getting into the intent of the manufacturer’s tuning and gettin some appreciation of its signature (also something that requires to adjust your brain to a rather “extreme” signature). I would probably have rated it lower but also stating that my preferences come into play. It would also have taken me more time this way. Again time I don’t have...

As you say, some people make reputation trashing stuff but I totally agree that it’s the opposite of a fair (as unbiased as possible) review.

Kudos for starting that conversation and trying to help people understand :D
 
Last edited:
Oct 15, 2019 at 2:31 AM Post #18,198 of 39,414
Had some thoughts I wanted to share. Finally got around to writing them down.

The Bias and Subjectivity of Reviewing
I think this is one of the weird things about this hobby, the only real metric you have is enjoyment...

If you are a reviewer of say golf equipment, sure you have enjoyment, but you also have way more tangible metrics that you need to be covering

Being transparent and open about the defects and/or issues with a piece of equipment is I think the only actually important "metric" as it is something that goes beyond impressions and into the stuff that a consumer really needs to know

For example that time @Deezel177 mentioned that time there was a faceplate issue with my Noir I was proper amazed and I felt like it was some on-point, quality material
 
Oct 15, 2019 at 6:01 AM Post #18,199 of 39,414
Had some thoughts I wanted to share. Finally got around to writing them down.

The Bias and Subjectivity of Reviewing
Great to see that you (you personally and THL) are willing to get the discussion about these things going, as I think it is important. A while back I wrote this post in response to the question "how do professional audio reviewers put food on the table and why should I trust them?":

"From all the reviewers I know, not two of them have the same motivation and the vast majority have regular jobs, they just put in a lot of hours after work (maybe sneak in a listen while working, or checking forums/emails on their phone).

Strictly for myself, I love writing and this hobby is something I got into out of an interest in using music as a way to help me manage my ADHD. Exploring the psychology and physiology of music, signatures, etc., is something I was doing anyway and it only seemed to make sense to write some of it down in my first review. After that I kept on writing because I enjoy it.

How do you stay objective while writing reviews? It is not really that difficult because honest feedback to the manufacturer is important for the manufacturer as well. Personally I do present negatives in a constructive, or sometimes funny way, but that is simply because I consider that the best way. I do not do hyperbole negative criticism because I do not consider it constructive. What then of a bad product? I simply don't waste my time on it and send it back where it came from.

It can be difficult to deal with manufacturers and I often enjoy doing reviews simply based on items I have borrowed from friends, or work with a brick and mortar store to help support them by using their demo units for reviews, but it is really helpful to get review samples for comparisons. What I do is something I know a few other reviewers do as well, and that is view the review samples as being on a long-term loan. Any manufacturer can at any time ask me for their samples back, no questions asked. Also really important is to stay sensible because some manufacturers do implicitly try to exert pressure. They can do that with me as much as they want, I don't care and they will only get my honest opinion. That's the deal. If they are not happy, then they can work with someone else. Those manufacturers that I do feel are trying to put on a little pressure are also put on notice in the back of my mind and I set clear boundaries they should not cross, if they do, I will send back their gear and refuse future reviews.

Those things have to do with personal integrity and that integrity is really important for a sustainable reviewing career/hobby. Equally, manufacturers who are dedicated to making quality products do appreciate a solid review including any criticism.

Like with anything else there are always going to be bad apples and there are always going to be people who make mistakes quite innocently, reviewing is not easy to do well and there is a learning curve. I always urge people to read several reviews and especially reviews by people with different styles because that can lead to interesting insights. Most importantly, never see a review as something truly "objective", it isn't. It is not a science and we can't make it scientific either because at the end of the day, music is a subjective experience and we can't sensibly separate the technology from the psychology." - [Original post]

As for bias. I don't think a lot of people understand how to deal with it, or even how to spot it. Measurements for instance are often seen as "objective", but that is only because people don't understand experimental design and how uncertainty and bias slips into that. If the setup is not standardised, controlled and calibrated, then the results of one measurement to the next can't be readily compared. If any form of adjustment to the raw result is applied, then there is a chance of bias slipping into the end result, especially if results are made "presentable". The thing is however that people don't question graphs and numbers as easily as descriptive words because those graphs and numbers come across as if those exist independent of the person producing them. But that is not the case and instead those graphs and numbers depend on a wide range of factors directly and indirectly linked to the person producing them. Bias can thus be found everywhere.

My way of dealing with this (and it is only one option of many) is to write my impressions in such a way that people can verify/compare for themselves what I say. That means listing the entire chain of source, cable, IEMs and anything else that might potentially have an influence on the sound, as well as describing the music I listen to. That way any person reading my review can go out and listen to the same music with the same gear and decide for themselves whether or not they agree with me. In that way my reviews can be informative because they are descriptive, and avoid the pitfall of becoming prescriptive ("buy X because...", "Y is crap because...").

Another element I have introduced is transparency about the way I deal with manufacturers and review samples. It is a difficult balance because I can't share confidential information publicly and I won't risk damaging a business by openly declaring what brands I refuse to review. But in generalised terms I can at least share some information about my motivations, how I deal with review samples, how I deal with any perceived pressure from the industry or indeed a friendship with a certain manufacturer.

I think that by doing these things and trying to improve myself in doing them (I am not always as consistent as I would like to be), it can make a positive contribution to this hobby. And, hopefully, go a way to counter the negative impact of disingenuous review spammers.
 
Oct 15, 2019 at 12:53 PM Post #18,200 of 39,414
Had some thoughts I wanted to share. Finally got around to writing them down.

The Bias and Subjectivity of Reviewing

I told him this in private earlier today, but what a brilliant write-up @PinkyPowers has delivered here; honest, resonant and - for me, at least - extremely accurate, all in Pinky's distinctive, charismatic voice. The discussion over here's been fantastic as well, as everyone's brought up great points and experiences of their own. Love all ya' folks! :D
 
Oct 15, 2019 at 1:15 PM Post #18,201 of 39,414
I told him this in private earlier today, but what a brilliant write-up @PinkyPowers has delivered here; honest, resonant and - for me, at least - extremely accurate, all in Pinky's distinctive, charismatic voice. The discussion over here's been fantastic as well, as everyone's brought up great points and experiences of their own. Love all ya' folks! :D

I agree, there have been some wonderful posts here already, furthering the discussion.

Thanks everyone!
 
Oct 15, 2019 at 2:41 PM Post #18,202 of 39,414
I agree, there have been some wonderful posts here already, furthering the discussion.
Thanks everyone!

Luckily higher level than the facebook replies :p
 
Oct 15, 2019 at 3:34 PM Post #18,203 of 39,414
Luckily higher level than the facebook replies :p
The quality of discussion has three pretty clear tiers imo

Tier 1: Reddit. If you aren't praising the M50x, Beyerdynamic or the LCD X, you will get fried alive for being a pretentious snob. Photos of multiple 4k+ headphones are okay though.

Tier 2: Facebook Head-Fi group. On a good day, you can have a pretty good discussion. On a bad day, your mom slept with another member of the group. All in all it's a bit of a gamble, you need to be brutally cautious with your wording

Tier 3: Head-Fi - for the most part, scholars. You will get a really good discussion for the most part, as long as you steer clear of a few forbidden opinions and topics
 
Oct 15, 2019 at 4:02 PM Post #18,204 of 39,414
@mvvRAZ I really laughed, quite true... unfortunately for me I won’t mince my word for the FB bunch :p Reddit I won’t even go there...

I have a thing for so called « objectivist » I confess they get on my nerves... to me the whole point of this hobby is first and foremost enjoy the art that is music.. gear is only a means to an end, with luck it conveys the nuances and richness of music as a form of expression and elicit beautiful emotions... it might be true to the artist intent but even if it adds its own interpretation it’s fine...

That and not everyone (far from it) will experience the same gear even with the same source the same way I do. It’s all very relative in the end so to me very subjective... psycho acoustics means everyone hearing, brain, experience is part of the journey of music enjoyment. Being aware of this personal bias or way to perceive things is important to be able to share and be explicit about said bias.

But when people claim absolute objectivity, science... it makes me smile as it’s such reduction of the magic of it all...
 
Last edited:
Oct 15, 2019 at 4:06 PM Post #18,205 of 39,414
@mvvRAZ I really laughed, quite true... unfortunately for me I won’t mince my word for the FB bunch :p Reddit I won’t even go there...

I have a thing for so called « objectivist » I confess they get on my nerves...
I think there’s a very strong overlap with yours, but my personal weak spot is for the ones that call snake oil on everything... legit one of these days someone will be like, music is snake oil just listen to the beauty of what is around you
 
Oct 15, 2019 at 4:10 PM Post #18,206 of 39,414
I think there’s a very strong overlap with yours, but my personal weak spot is for the ones that call snake oil on everything... legit one of these days someone will be like, music is snake oil just listen to the beauty of what is around you

Exactly! Like who are you to question someone’s appreciation of the nuances, richness of your perception and gear as a conduit to get into the music...
 
Oct 15, 2019 at 4:16 PM Post #18,207 of 39,414
Oct 15, 2019 at 5:05 PM Post #18,208 of 39,414
The quality of discussion has three pretty clear tiers imo

Tier 1: Reddit. If you aren't praising the M50x, Beyerdynamic or the LCD X, you will get fried alive for being a pretentious snob. Photos of multiple 4k+ headphones are okay though.

Tier 2: Facebook Head-Fi group. On a good day, you can have a pretty good discussion. On a bad day, your mom slept with another member of the group. All in all it's a bit of a gamble, you need to be brutally cautious with your wording

Tier 3: Head-Fi - for the most part, scholars. You will get a really good discussion for the most part, as long as you steer clear of a few forbidden opinions and topics

Damn. I need to tell my mom to get the hell out of that group ASAP.
 
Oct 15, 2019 at 5:58 PM Post #18,209 of 39,414
legit one of these days someone will be like, music is snake oil just listen to the beauty of what is around you

This gave me a good laugh. Sadly you're probably right. BTW how does one access the Facebook discussion group? All I see are posts with no discussion.
 
Oct 15, 2019 at 6:25 PM Post #18,210 of 39,414
@pithyginger63 Are you going to take a hacksaw to your ciems in Oct 31st and live stream it?
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top