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flinkenick's 17 Flagship IEM Shootout Thread (and general high-end portable audio discussion)

  1. EagleWings
    A little birdie once told me that Spiral Ears had actually written a white paper (probably not peer-reviewed) on what is the correct tuning for an IEM, and that SE5 was a culmination of that research. I tried to get my hands on it, but the person who had acquired it from Gregorz had deleted it, because it was in Polish and he couldn't read Polish.

    This naked dance method sounds more plausible though.

    @Mimouille , if you are close with Gregorz, may be you could ask him if he is willing to share the white paper. We can use Google Translate to get the gist of the contents.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  2. Deezel177
    They then wrote a white paper on how to most effectively profit off of pre-existing hype, and the SE6 was the culmination of that research. I believe that one was written in Simplified Chinese.
     
    Panohm, fuhransahis, Wyville and 3 others like this.
  3. pithyginger63
    I'd like to hire these ancient polish demons. The dancing sounds fun
     
    KuroKitsu and Mimouille like this.
  4. deafdoorknob
    EF229032-690B-46B9-BD2C-F711597E868A.jpeg

    at the end of the day, by the time the soundwaves hit your eardrums, how you brain interprets the signal becomes subjective, both physiological (pain threshold, hearing loss, acuity etc) and psychological (learned biases, preferences etc) metrics will determine what is “right” for you.

    personal anecdote, no matter how low the source impedance is, and how “bassy” others demonstrate the andros are, my perception of them remain “fixated” on their sparke range which i found tizzy and etched, it’s not because i dont hear the rest of their fullness but rather, their tizziness out weighed what they do right, for me. Also, they rendered reverb on some female vocals (agnes obel’s familiar, for example) rather poorly delineated (taking on a cupped hands/toilet paper roll mic effect).
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
    ayang02, Rockwell75, Wyville and 4 others like this.
  5. Mimouille
    Agnès Obel is among my test tracks.
     
    deafdoorknob likes this.
  6. deafdoorknob
    Citizen of Glass and Stormzy’s Gang signs and Prayer, perhaps unfairly, ruined my impression of the Andro’s tuning lol

    The opening track on that Stormzy album had a thunderclap which was meant to convey a sense of meanace, but via the andro i got weaksauce pop and crackle of a deflated paper bag...
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
    Mimouille and Wyville like this.
  7. pithyginger63
    Nice writeup. I think the interesting thing is, from memory, when I listened to the Layla, it had quite a nice soundstage, it sounded very large and forward (as in it is in front of me) but instruments sounded with good body. I think my preference might be for this type of presentation. I need to reaudition the Layla at some point. If i'm not misunderstanding, this type of stage is relies mostly on good quality sound reproduction (is this down to driver quality, how much does tuning affect this?)? I imagine this style of stage is more faithful to the recording.
     
  8. Deezel177
    Jerry Harvey claims it's down to FreqPhase. According to him, perfect phase alignment is especially crucial for defining the diagonals (10 and 2 o'clock), so you bridge the x- and z-axes to form a perfectly spherical stage. Once you achieve this and a hyper-extended treble (as Harvey also claimed his Roxanne was the first ever earpiece to stably reach 20kHz), you're free to fill the soundscape with as many full-bodied instruments as you like and still maintain a vast, spacious stage... in theory, at least.
     
  9. pithyginger63
    Oh, hmmm... now I feel like I need to go try out more stuff. From what I remember though, most other iems these days implement similar concepts as Freqphase in their designs. Aside from Layla, do you have the impression of spherical soundstage from other iems in the JH lineup?

    (also where did you get that information from? I'd like to read/listen myself)
    edit: scratch that, i'm reading the patent right now

    I'm starting to feel it's a worthwhile summer project to just go buy some iem components and try to diy some iems. I guess I need to learn measurements and stuff too.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  10. KuroKitsu
    @pithyginger63 wot I think you won the award for breaking my brain this week.

    If you do get the Laylas, please dont take power tools to them for whatever reason. I will cry.
     
    EagleWings and pithyginger63 like this.
  11. pithyginger63
    This afternoon, I was just thinking, I might one day buy a bunch of iems, take out all their drivers and mix and match. Although afterwards, I started to just think about a diy iem that focused on mids. I know it probably doesn't have too much detrimental effect but every time I think "64 Audio IEMs only have one upper mid driver", something inside me dies. My really really dumb plan is to make an iem with focus on mids and just do fk all with bass and treble. Although this plan will probably not actually happen. It depends on the circumstances. And if I actually start bothering to research about the measurement side of things and graphs and other stuff. I mean, I still have barely any idea what phase is. Or how to measure tubing so that everything is in phase. I also have no idea how crossovers actually work. (also to emphasize the dumbness of my plan, it would probably start with a 20 driver iem, 6 lower mid, 6 upper mid drivers, and 4 bass and 4 treble drivers.) If I make any extras, I'll send them to select people. For free (if there are any updates tho, you'll have to pay the return shipping for "upgrades"). I'll probably end up scrapping this idea though. Seems like such a hassle. (i'm thinking of doing this because this year is my last summer break ever.)
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  12. EagleWings
    Driver quality defintiely plays a role. But since every IEM maker (except Sony and possibly a few others) is sourcing the drivers from only Knowles and Sonion, I would think it comes down to implementation. And sometimes you could have a small stage, but of very high quality like on Flamenco or Focal Utopia.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  13. Deezel177
    The Rosie has similarly strong diagonals, as I noted in my FIBAE 2 review from a year or two ago. The information was retrieved from a hodgepodge of YouTube videos. There's the Google Talk you yourself linked a while back, InnerFidelity (I think) has videos from 2013/2014 of Jerry Harvey promoting FreqPhase at CanJam, there's a video of Jerry Harvey demonstrating IEMs with and without FreqPhase at JH HQ, etc.

    EDIT: I ranted quite hard here in the original version of this post. I've decided to redact it because I feel it got a bit too hot. All I'll say is all this is is far, far, far, far more difficult than you could ever imagine. If you don't believe me, check this thread out: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/home-made-iems.430688/

    It's also worth noting that some manufacturers have the perk of ordering custom-tuned drivers. Jerry Harvey with both UE and JH was the second individual ever to do this; the first being Westone, I believe.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  14. audionewbi
    it still doesn’t explain the cost, I shouldn’t be charged for their after production orgy.
     
    Mimouille likes this.
  15. KuroKitsu
    They're also charging for the pre-production orgy and all the other orgies in between during production.
     

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