[LuckyNat]

I think you misread my post, I meant you can't compare what's going on IN FRONT of IEM and speaker drivers, due to different acoustic environments (closed ear canal vs. free / diffuse field).

You can, of course, compare what's going on BEHIND the drivers. In both cases, rear air volume acts like a damping spring against driver movement. And the rear vent is simply a method to adjust the amount of rear damping (larger vent = more rear air volume = less rear damping). This works similarly for both IEMs and speakers.

Btw, the part you mentioned about matching the pressures in front and behind the driver, was something Flare claimed for their older (closed) IEMs, iirc. I don't think anyone would seriously claim that for rear vented IEMs like the FlarePros.

I was only posting in reference to your last sentence where you said something about the open vent at the back not having any effect on what happens between the front of the driver and ear drum - I would consider the whole system as having an effect on the whole, due to it effecting the movement of the diaphram (which moves the air between it and the ear drum). But yeah, I may have misunderstood the point you were making there too!

I think the whole ethos of everything Flare Audio designs is about equalising the presures infront and behind the driver. It's part of Davies's whole thinking on how drivers should behave. Pretty sure that's what is meant by "Dual Jet sound balancing technology" , the sound balancing bit. Personally I thought it was the R2 that didn't do it properly compared to the rhetoric, but the Flares probably do... Different driver though so depends on how open the unit is behind.

 

[LuckyNat]

The new Flares Jet :

https://www.flareaudio.com/products/flares-jet?variant=3480887230490

Wow! So they have gone with a sub-£100 model after all ! That's a surprise (and no email about it... ).

 

[barondla]

@Arysyn there are tiny round dot filters that fit on the nozzle front of IEMs. They are designed to affect certain frequency ranges - mostly midrange up. Have you ever seen these? Can't remember who makes them at the moment. They might be difficult to use with dexterity limitations. Though some one else could help install them. They are designed to get rid of peaks in at certain frequencies.

 

[Arysyn]

@Arysyn there are tiny round dot filters that fit on the nozzle front of IEMs. They are designed to affect certain frequency ranges - mostly midrange up. Have you ever seen these? Can't remember who makes them at the moment. They might be difficult to use with dexterity limitations. Though some one else could help install them. They are designed to get rid of peaks in at certain frequencies.

That sounds very interesting - I've never heard of them. However if you can find something which might fit on the Flares, please let me know. My mother could put them on the earpieces for me, as she does with the tips.

Also, I'm hoping to hear from Flare soon since my email yesterday asking for information. If they send new frequency response graphs, I'll post them here. My guess is the new Gold might be a product of interest to me with more information, though I'm figuring the new, less expensive Flares Jet might be more bassy. I won't know for sure though until I see more information about it.

 

[awayeah]

...
Right now, there is some bad burn-in on my 55"-inch LG C6P from 2016 the store is willing to do a trade or refund, but I'm waiting until Spring for the new 2018 tvs to appear for sale. I'm not sure what I'm going to get.

So, I'm curious if there aren't certain steps involved when burning in an iem. I probably am a bit reluctant to it because with other technology, running anything a very long time has risks, though thats not to imply it necessarily would on an iem. Do manufacturers have any advice/warnings about burn in that either would instruct or to suggest misuse of normal operations to void a warranty, that sort of thing?

You're living in much better country than I am if the store is willing to give you a refund or trade for burned-in OLED. In my location, OLED burn-in is your problem, not the stores and you can't do anything about it. I'm very careful with OLEDs anyhow, and my current LG B7 has built-in mechanism for preventing burn-in from happening - the whole picture moves 1-2 pixels to the left or right every couple minutes (you can't see it, but hopefully it works).

Anyway back to the subject - I didn't mean "burn-in" as some deliberate process, I just meant that after let say 200h of heavy use, the sound of Flares PRO becomes more polished in upper midrange. By heavy use, I mean listening to music at least several hours a day, but I'm often leaving them playing music through the night to speed up the process.
Also, there's one other issue related to burn-in. I've noticed that some IEMs (dynamic ones), left unused for a long period of times, sound different than when used often. So the burn-in might also be just frequent use and after long idle period you need to let them play a while, for them to sound good again. Just a thought.

 

[Fiberoptix]

I'm finding that the harshness/artificial edge can 'mostly' be EQ'd out if you're happy using EQ. Some play around the 8-9khz range does it and maybe a little around the 11-12khz. Makes the sound more organic and instruments more natural but retains much of the amazing resolution and air.

 

[LuckyNat]

Burn-in and burn-in are two seperate things for screens and audio equipment. For screens, burn-in means image retention. Obviously that can't happen to a speaker.

Burn-in for audio gear means, for drivers for example, the materials loosen up from their first movement until they reach an average pliability - the driver suspension, driver surrounds etc. In electronics, capacitors can also change property to their intended ESR values etc as the dialectric settles in to the patten of electric charges it experiences. Some people claim burn-in for other things but this can also be simply the brain getting used to and normalising a sound character or placebo too.

The two are not related to each other, it's just the same words to describe two different things...

I think there would have to be some problems with materials used in drivers for them to require burn-in after not being used a long while (unless they're being stored in a different temperature, like cold storage). That change in physical property would probably age the materials and cause premature failures. Manufacturers would be aware of those effects and not use those materials.

Personally, I would put the sound difference down to one's brain normalising one sound and then moving over to another that has a different frequency response and slowly normalising that one. If you listen to something with a suck-out at 5kHz, it won't take long for your brain to normalise that and for it to start to sound normal. Then when you move to something with flat response, your brain's compensation will make the flat response sound like it has a 5Khz hump... until that flat response becomes normalised. Each time to you listen to the heaphone, you will be subconciously expecting for it to sound a certain way.

 

[davidcotton]

Wow! So they have gone with a sub-£100 model after all ! That's a surprise (and no email about it... ).

Just curious if these are vented? Need high isolation where I work. Do think it's a bit tight they couldn't include a set of foam tips in there. Have to say do rather like the rather snazzy web page with the contents being revealed as you scroll down though!

 

[paul2qute]

@Arysyn Read my 2 posts describing first impressions. Flares Pro sound much better after several hundred hours of use and with different foams (I'm using INAirs right now and it's ok - I'm at least as sensitive to this issues as you are - I think ). For long sessions I still prefer R2pro with Sabaj DA3 beacuse of their signature.
Without burn-in Flares GOLD are better than Flares PRO in upper midrange and in high freq. but upper midrange is still not as smooth and pleasant as with R2pro's. It can't be though, becasue of different sound signatures.

I was only posting in reference to your last sentence where you said something about the open vent at the back not having any effect on what happens between the front of the driver and ear drum - I would consider the whole system as having an effect on the whole, due to it effecting the movement of the diaphram (which moves the air between it and the ear drum). But yeah, I may have misunderstood the point you were making there too!

I think the whole ethos of everything Flare Audio designs is about equalising the presures infront and behind the driver. It's part of Davies's whole thinking on how drivers should behave. Pretty sure that's what is meant by "Dual Jet sound balancing technology" , the sound balancing bit. Personally I thought it was the R2 that didn't do it properly compared to the rhetoric, but the Flares probably do... Different driver though so depends on how open the unit is behind.

 

[paul2qute]

Phone playing up ignore that last post

 

[paul2qute]

I was only posting in reference to your last sentence where you said something about the open vent at the back not having any effect on what happens between the front of the driver and ear drum - I would consider the whole system as having an effect on the whole, due to it effecting the movement of the diaphram (which moves the air between it and the ear drum). But yeah, I may have misunderstood the point you were making there too!

I think the whole ethos of everything Flare Audio designs is about equalising the presures infront and behind the driver. It's part of Davies's whole thinking on how drivers should behave. Pretty sure that's what is meant by "Dual Jet sound balancing technology" , the sound balancing bit. Personally I thought it was the R2 that didn't do it properly compared to the rhetoric, but the Flares probably do... Different driver though so depends on how open the unit is behind.

Sennheiser ie 800 use the same technology

 

[james444]

I think the whole ethos of everything Flare Audio designs is about equalising the presures infront and behind the driver. It's part of Davies's whole thinking on how drivers should behave. Pretty sure that's what is meant by "Dual Jet sound balancing technology" , the sound balancing bit.

Yeah, I got that with regards to their Reference R1 headphone, which was pretty unique with vents on both sides of the driver. But tbh, I don't get what's supposed to be special about that regarding IEMs though, since about 80-90% of dynamic driver IEMs I know are pressure equalized via front and rear vents.

Sennheiser ie 800 use the same technology

In case you're referring to Sennheiser's dual-chamber absorber (D2CA), those are two Helmholtz resonators to counteract treble resonances. Different purpose and technology, only thing in common is the word "dual".

 

[paul2qute]

Yeah, I got that with regards to their Reference R1 headphone, which was pretty unique with vents on both sides of the driver. But tbh, I don't get what's supposed to be special about that regarding IEMs though, since about 80-90% of dynamic driver IEMs I know are pressure equalized via front and rear vents.



In case you're referring to Sennheiser's dual-chamber absorber (D2CA), those are two Helmholtz resonators to counteract treble resonances. Different purpose and technology, only thing in common is the word "dual".

Oh right thought it was for bass as well oh well

 

[LuckyNat]

Yeah, I got that with regards to their Reference R1 headphone, which was pretty unique with vents on both sides of the driver. But tbh, I don't get what's supposed to be special about that regarding IEMs though, since about 80-90% of dynamic driver IEMs I know are pressure equalized via front and rear vents.

Well....(I hesitate because I don't know) .. I can imagine that presures will be different for a shaped enclosure (including those with vents) at different frequencies so I guess there can be differences between rear enclosures for frequency response design, matched with the driver, and a design where the aim is to match front and back presures across the frequency spectrum as a philosophy. It will be about the design focus and intention rather than the shape being totally unique and never seen before. What happens in practice though, is only known in the minds of the designers themselves (marketing doesn't always reveal that).

EDIT: A snippet from a website about the Flares Pro:

"
Dual Jet technology
Ignoring the temptation for toilet-humour, Dual Jet tech levels out the driver pressure.

Sound emerging from the front of the driver is delivered to the mouth of the earphone via an acoustic coupler (or jet). This has been designed to present a modified acoustic load to the driver.

The technology is also applied to the rear earphone chamber. This then ensures that the driver is pressure balanced, front to rear. The result is symmetrical diaphragm movement which, according to Flare, is the key to the Pro’s performance. "

So it's the intention at least! I can't claim to know if it's actually what is happening or not.

 

[LuckyNat]

Anyone get their Golds today?