FLAC advantage
Oct 19, 2005 at 1:18 PM Post #76 of 148
You have to understand that for some people quality is more enjoyable than quantity. I have a good collection of CDs (around 500) and I've stopped trying to always buy more and more because I now get more enjoyment in listening to what I have over and over but at the same time improving the way the albums sound by increasing the quality of the equipment I own. I much prefer buying a $200 interconnect cable if it raises my sound quality than $200 of CDs on amazon that I will listen to only a few times because they don't sound that grest.

It's basically two different way of thinking. I basically see two different trends, the young people tend to be "downloaders" of quantity, they seem to have a never ending passion to have more and more new songs on their hard drive and the older people tend to have a never ending passion for higher and higher quality of sound constantly buying and upgrading their equipment.

So bottom line, it's probably similar with lossless versus lossy. The group that values quality doesn't care about size, if flac or even .wav is proven superior, even if it is negligeable, that group will strongly promote that. On the other hand, the group that values quantity will be promoting it's position based mostly on the fact that there is not difference in sound, which can be true on cheaper equipment but not necessarily if played of higher end equipment.

Anyway, that's my view on it.

Cheers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spaceconvoy
And I'm talking about sound quality from a music-lover's point of view (that is the whole point, right?)

When are spatial/monetary/real world contraints ever not an issue? Only when you listen to music on your computer at home. I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I move around a lot during the day, and my mp3 player has become my permanent source. So yeah, I definitely choose lossy over lossless mostly because of spatial constraints (of course I have backup DVDs of my music collection saved in flac in case I need to re-encode or something). But even if all my music did fit on my player in flac, I would still probably choose lossy, because it would allow for greater expansion of my collection in the future. That is to say, I would choose whatever the lowest bitrate file that sounds just as good as cd quality with my equipment, in order to have more room for music.

Read this thread - I find it amazing that people who spend so much money on audio equipment can still consider the Flaming Lips, Mouse on Mars, or Devendra Banhart undiscoved gems. It's pretty obvious that most people here spend more time/money trying out new equipment than new music. IMHO, spending $200 on an order from Amazon is always a much better investment for your system than a $200 cable. And of course, having the extra harddrive space because you encode to lossy only helps you appreciate more new music.

Basically, you're completely missing the whole point of audio/music/life in general. It's about enrichment, not perfection.



 
Oct 19, 2005 at 4:33 PM Post #77 of 148
Quote:

Originally Posted by Loftprojection
young people tend to be "downloaders" of quantity, they seem to have a never ending passion to have more and more new songs on their hard drive and the older people tend to have a never ending passion for higher and higher quality of sound constantly buying and upgrading their equipment.


Hey now... I'm only 18 here... You callin' me old!?
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Oct 20, 2005 at 3:36 PM Post #78 of 148
Haha, I knew my statement was a so so generalization! Welcome in the old fart club youngster!
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Ho well, I guess I generalized because I am in the old fart club that values quality of sound versus quantity of songs but I'm sure there are plenty of young ones that do also considering the number of high end headphones and amps that are being talked about on this forum!

Cheers, hope you wont be mad at me until you are really old!
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Riku540
Hey now... I'm only 18 here... You callin' me old!?
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Oct 20, 2005 at 3:52 PM Post #79 of 148
Quote:

Originally Posted by Loftprojection
Ho well, I guess I generalized because I am in the old fart club that values quality of sound versus quantity of songs but I'm sure there are plenty of young ones that do also considering the number of high end headphones and amps that are being talked about on this forum!


Ah come on, you know as good as I do that the young folks just amass high end headphones and amps in their lust for quantity as well, they probably only use the stuff once, then put it in the big box filled with Blockheads, RS-1s & $2000 interconnects
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Oct 20, 2005 at 5:40 PM Post #82 of 148
Quote:

Originally Posted by spaceconvoy
Basically, you're completely missing the whole point of audio/music/life in general. It's about enrichment, not perfection.


The point was why not have perfection if you can
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Oct 20, 2005 at 5:41 PM Post #83 of 148
Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Pak
Surprised this hasn't been mentioned but more than a few times I've heard people claim that MP3 (no matter what bitrate) can't provide the 3D/good soundstage that a lossless encoding can.


This is true for certain. Even highest-quality VBR MP3 destroys the imaging. This is not conjecture, it's fact. There are some ways to try to avoid this using additional software (XM Radio, for example, does this before using it's flavor of AAC compression). But lossy coding will have a deleterious effect on soundstaging, no matter what the rate. Of course at lower rates there are other more objectionable artifacts, but the way lossy compression ruins soundstaging is one of the main reasons I won't use it at all.
 
Oct 20, 2005 at 5:48 PM Post #84 of 148
Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Pak
Surprised this hasn't been mentioned but more than a few times I've heard people claim that MP3 (no matter what bitrate) can't provide the 3D/good soundstage that a lossless encoding can.


Yup. Tracks with excessive "3D" stereo effects make very good testing material.
 
Oct 20, 2005 at 5:54 PM Post #85 of 148
I did a blind listening test yesterday. I encoded Rush's Remastered Moving Pictures to FLAC level 5 vs. LAME CBR 320 (hq).
Equipment I used was my iAudio X5L unamped with my UE10-pro headphones.

I had the two albums set on random play and could not identify the lossy mp3 files. They sounded exactly the same. My next test will be with the same album at 256 VBR LAME. I'm going to keep working my way down until I hit the point where I can reliably discern the two. Then I'll give ogg a shot.

One thing... Not all encoders are created equal. I have some 320kbs mp3s that sound like crap. Lame just happends to be one of the best, if not the best.
 
Oct 20, 2005 at 6:05 PM Post #86 of 148
Quote:

Originally Posted by BIGtrouble77
I did a blind listening test yesterday. I encoded Rush's Remastered Moving Pictures to FLAC level 5 vs. LAME CBR 320 (hq).
Equipment I used was my iAudio X5L unamped with my UE10-pro headphones.



Sweet! Keep us informed as you go. This is the kind of stuff that is pushing me to forget about getting an iPod in favor of an iAudio: the iTunes MP3 encoder isn't nearly as good. Plus, I really don't need 60gb of storage space as I did 320k AAC files and only came up with about 8gb worth from my music collection. Even if I did twice as many discs the next time, which would be almost everything I normally listen to, I would still only use <20gb. Hmmmmmm.....
 
Oct 20, 2005 at 6:22 PM Post #88 of 148
Quote:

Originally Posted by ServinginEcuador
Sweet! Keep us informed as you go. This is the kind of stuff that is pushing me to forget about getting an iPod in favor of an iAudio: the iTunes MP3 encoder isn't nearly as good. Plus, I really don't need 60gb of storage space as I did 320k AAC files and only came up with about 8gb worth from my music collection. Even if I did twice as many discs the next time, which would be almost everything I normally listen to, I would still only use <20gb. Hmmmmmm.....


In all fairness to the ipods, you don't need to use their encoder. Lame MP3's will work perfectly fine on any ipod. I'd never get an ipod because they don't support ogg, which is a phenominal lossy encoder and open source.

Ogg's may be slightly larger in size than an equivalent mp3, but they compare favorably to mp3's encoded at a much higher bitrate. Ogg and flac are great formats because they are not proprietary- dap makers have no excuse to not include support for them.
 
Oct 20, 2005 at 6:26 PM Post #89 of 148
My All-lossless iTunes library is almost 130 GB.

When doing your blind testing, listen both for effect on the imaging/soundstage as well as the more typical/obvious effect on the sound of instruments like acoustic guitar and cymbals?
 
Oct 20, 2005 at 6:33 PM Post #90 of 148
Quote:

Originally Posted by BIGtrouble77
In all fairness to the ipods, you don't need to use their encoder. Lame MP3's will work perfectly fine on any ipod.


I thought that iTunes won't work, ie. copy from hard drive to iPod, unless you copy the music directly from the source material???
 

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