[Curly21029]

 
I know, I know.  Another (subjectively) ugly, oddly-named piece of audio equipment from Firestone Audio.  Still, color me intrigued, but there's currently a dearth of information available about a DAC that could possibly find a place alongside the "bang for the buck" elite. (depending on one's needs, of course)  I created this thread as a means to aggregate the small number of current impressions available, a way to invite those who've tried it to share their thoughts, and to possibly drum up more interest among Head-Fiers thereby leading to more shared opinions.  A few reasons why I feel the i♡TW is worth a look:
 
-Supports 24bit/192kHz via USB.  Most DAC's USB inputs are limited to 16/44.1, 24/44.1 or 24/96.
 
-Relatively cheap at $367.
 
-Exclusively USB: the most convenient input for myself and, I'm sure, others.  Why might this be a good thing?  Because the investment was made in building and tuning a single output.  Many DACs have inputs that go unused and, whether we take advantage of them or not, they add to the cost of the build raising the amount paid by the consumer.  It does, however, have an  I²S output that will serve as a means to connect to future equipment that Firestone has coming down the pike.
 
 
Specs from Firestone's website seem to indicate that they did, in fact, aim to utilize quality components:
 

	[size=9pt]Amplifier Structure : Low pass filter with 2Vrms output[/size]
	[size=9pt]Power Structure : High frequency switching DC-DC regulator [/size]
	[size=9pt]USB Support Format :[/size]
	[size=9pt]16 Bit : 44.1kHz / 48kHz / 88.2kHz / 96kHz / 176.4kHz / 192kHz[/size]
	[size=9pt]24 Bit : 44.1kHz / 48kHz / 88.2kHz / 96kHz / 176.4kHz / 192kHz[/size]
	[size=9pt]Digital Interface : Direct I2S data format transmission (MAX support up to 192kHz-24bit over 1 meter CAT-5E cable)[/size]
	[size=9pt]Operation Mode : Support Adaptive and Asynchronous mode for audio stream transmission[/size]
	[size=9pt]Circuit Protect : Output short / over current protect[/size]
	[size=9pt]DAC Chip : WOLFSON - WM8740[/size]
	[size=9pt]USB Chip : TENOR - TE8802[/size]
	[size=9pt]LPF OP : NS - LM4562[/size]
	[size=9pt]Audio Performance (1kHz sine wave, 2Vrms output, 24-bit / 48kHz) USB Input[/size]
	[size=9pt]dB-Weighed Frequency response (From 40Hz to 15kHz) : 40Hz +0.02dB, 15kHz -0.12dB[/size]
	[size=9pt]Total frequency response is of course much wider from < 20Hz till far over 20khz[/size]
	[size=9pt]Noise level (1kHz, A-Weighted) : -106.7dB[/size]
	[size=9pt]Dynamic range (1kHz, A-Weighted) : 106.7dB[/size]
	[size=9pt]THD% : 0.012%[/size]
	[size=9pt]Stereo crosstalk : -102.7dB[/size]
	[size=9pt]Housing dimensions : 117 x 80 x 50 mm (D x W x H). Housing only without parts 'sticking out' like connector parts, swithes, etc.[/size]
	[size=9pt]Weight : 286 gram (without the external power supply)[/size]

 
 
Searching has uncovered only one Head-Fier who has had the chance to audition it so far:
 
Quote:
 

 
Soundstage (of the TrueHarmonix DA&T U2) is not especially large, especially compared to Firestone Audio's new ILoveTW asynchronous 24/192 DAC (the ILoveTW has a very large soundstage, almost too large to be true to source).

When asked by another member for further impressions...
 
Quote:

The I <3 TW DAC is pretty good; you can look for reviews in Chinese on sites like mobile01.com and andaudio.com.
 
It uses the same housing as the other cute series products, so if you have existing ones, it'll fit well cosmetically, although personally I think the housing is a bit ugly. Word is that Firestone is using this machine as more of a proof of concept rather than a long-term release product, and that it makes the DAC at either zero profit or at a loss.
 
Firestone definitely put all the money into the DAC. For starters, it uses a bespoke Galaxy Tenor TE8802 chip as a USB receiver. Most budget 24/192 DACs use the Tenor TE7022 or some variant of that chip.  The new chip is what enables the asynchronous USB transfer mode, which needs to be enabled through a toggle switch within the circuit board. Users also need to download a custom driver (currently only available for 32-bit OSes) that allows ASIO output asynchronously over foobar or whatever else you use. At the front, there are indicator lights telling you what sample rate and bit depth the DAC is receiving.
 
When I auditioned the DAC, I thought that it definitely was very airy and transparent, a definite step up over the Audinst. It's designed as a DAC with very high cost/performance ratio, and most people who have auditioned it agree. Unfortunately, I can't really tell you how it compares against other asynchronous 24/192 DACs for I have not heard any. I'll try to audition the Benchmark DAC1 when I have the time.

 
 
The Mobile01 and AndAudio reviews referred to in the above can be found here and here... complete with horrible Google translation! (if anyone knows of a better way to translate these pages please make it known)  Interestingly, the impressions from the second link also describe a large soundstage.  For those like me that are currently restricted to closed 'phones, this could prove desirable.
 
Other links with impressions are here, ("giant killer") here, (looks like more updates are forthcoming) here, (a 5 star review from a customer who also owns Stax components, a K1000, and an HD800... hardly a novice) and here, ("The computer audiophile on a budget just got another reason to smile")
 
Since finding the i♡TW locally is out of the question and I'd like to give it a go, I'm considering purchasing from an e-tailer with a good return policy. (?)  In the meantime, has anyone else heard one of these yet?  General thoughts?

 

[ovk1307]

I don't agree that the unit is ugly-it's well made but PLAIN-still that's not bad(the money is spent inside rather than on a fancier box although the illuminated map of Taiwan really doesn't do that much for me) So far it's worked almost faultlessly apart from the bitrate LEDs saying that it is a lower rate than it is-who cares?
The important thing is that it does what it is supposed to-for the money nothing comes near! In another few months I'm sure there will be a choice but right now?
Anyway the sound....neutral(but what do you expect-you have to agree there is a big difference between headphones...I've listened to it through Audeze LC2s,AKG 1000s and Senheiser HD800 )less of a difference between amplifiers(tube and transistor)and really once the basics are covered not much between DACs.
Right now I think the AKGs and a binaural recording such as from HD Tracks is a miracle! The ILTW translate the HD Tracks into music perfectly but I'm sure in a few months lots of products will but currently why spend more?
I hate HD Tracks-almost every day they force me to spend more money-ripped CDs are ok for everyday music,I loved sacds but the bit rates these days are better than LPs but without all the analogue fun!(can't fit all the LP setup on my desk at work ,though)

In the end the firestone is cheap-give it a go you can't go wrong(if you have a Mac) and it's cheap.In another year the story will be different right now take the risk!

 

[Curly21029]

 
Quote:

I don't agree that the unit is ugly-it's well made but PLAIN-still that's not bad(the money is spent inside rather than on a fancier box although the illuminated map of Taiwan really doesn't do that much for me) So far it's worked almost faultlessly apart from the bitrate LEDs saying that it is a lower rate than it is-who cares?
The important thing is that it does what it is supposed to-for the money nothing comes near! In another few months I'm sure there will be a choice but right now?
Anyway the sound....neutral(but what do you expect-you have to agree there is a big difference between headphones...I've listened to it through Audeze LC2s,AKG 1000s and Senheiser HD800 )less of a difference between amplifiers(tube and transistor)and really once the basics are covered not much between DACs.
Right now I think the AKGs and a binaural recording such as from HD Tracks is a miracle! The ILTW translate the HD Tracks into music perfectly but I'm sure in a few months lots of products will but currently why spend more?
I hate HD Tracks-almost every day they force me to spend more money-ripped CDs are ok for everyday music,I loved sacds but the bit rates these days are better than LPs but without all the analogue fun!(can't fit all the LP setup on my desk at work ,though)

In the end the firestone is cheap-give it a go you can't go wrong(if you have a Mac) and it's cheap.In another year the story will be different right now take the risk!

Thanks for dropping by to share more of your impressions!  I hope you're OK with my investigative reporting of your equipment prompted by the review you posted at Wicked Digital.  
 
"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder," but that light up map... I'd buy the Supplier just so I have something to stack on top of it.
 
So you'd characterize its overall signature as "neutral?"  No emphasis anywhere in the spectrum?  A few others have commented on it presenting a wide soundstage.  Anything to add to those statements?  Has it changed at all with burn in?
 
Interesting note about the LEDs not lighting up properly.  Are you saying that audio MIDI setup says one sample rate but the i♡TW is showing another?  Did you install the additional drivers?  Are they required for 24/192 playback on Mac?
 
Again, thanks for chiming in!  And stick around for a while... you'll fit right in!

 

[DemonicLemming]

Hm...so is asynchronous USB only able to be utilized with 32-bit OS, or is it simply a matter of someone authoring a driver for a 64-bit to make it work?  Asynch seems to have some potential benefits, but if it's stuck on a legacy OS, that would be a pretty damning mark against it.

 

[vrln]

My guess is that it´s very neutral. The Firestone Audio "house sound", from what I´ve read, measures very well - ie, they don´t design by ear alone. Just check the Spitfire (their previous DAC) RMAA results, it´s impressive: http://www.firestone-audio.com/rmaa/SPITFIRE.htm

 

[Curly21029]

 
Quote:

Hm...so is asynchronous USB only able to be utilized with 32-bit OS, or is it simply a matter of someone authoring a driver for a 64-bit to make it work?  Asynch seems to have some potential benefits, but if it's stuck on a legacy OS, that would be a pretty damning mark against it.

From what I gather, it only works with 32 bit versions of Windows but Mac works fine. (go figure... )  There is, however, a driver coming for 64 bit support.
 

 

[leeperry]

A friend of mine went nuts and ordered it....I'm currently playing around w/ it, I will post a review soon(hopefully this week).
 
The good news is that it does 88.2 w/o drivers on windows(and 176.4/192 on the latest MacOS I hear, due to the native support of the generic USB audio 2.0 standard....windows only supports 1.0):

I haven't played around with the async stuff yet, but I do plan on

 
I know how LM4562 sounds, and I find the result pretty stunning when fed from WM8740(all my other DAC's are running the ubiquitous PCM1793)...good deep bass response, wide SS, I think we got a winner...can't wait to try it in async mode

 
I use it together w/ the Supplier PSU btw, and it can easily drive headphones on its RCA output.
 
I've cracked it open, and the new TE8802L Tenor chip is much bigger than the old (non-88.2kHz) TE7022L.
 
I'm currently playing all my 88.2kHz files, as I haven't been able to hear them w/o upsampling to 96kHz in a long time(all my DAC's/transports use TE7022L).

 

[Curly21029]

 
Quote:

A friend of mine went nuts and ordered it....I'm currently playing around w/ it, I will post a review soon(hopefully this week).
 
The good news is that it does 88.2 w/o drivers on windows(and 176.4/192 on the latest MacOS I hear, due to the native support of the generic USB audio 2.0 standard....windows only supports 1.0):

I haven't played around with the async stuff yet, but I do plan on

 
I know how LM4562 sounds, and I find the result pretty stunning when fed from WM8740(all my other DAC's are running the ubiquitous PCM1793)...good deep bass response, wide SS, I think we got a winner...can't wait to try it in async mode

 
I use it together w/ the Supplier PSU btw, and it can easily drive headphones on its RCA output.
 
I've cracked it open, and the new TE8802L Tenor chip is much bigger than the old (non-88.2kHz) TE7022L.
 
I'm currently playing all my 88.2kHz files, as I haven't been able to hear them w/o upsampling to 96kHz in a long time(all my DAC's/transports use TE7022L).

Awesome!  Thanks for posting and I would love to see a proper review!
 
A request: any way you could compare using the standard power supply versus the Supplier?  Knowing if its a worthy upgrade would be incredibly helpful.

 

[leeperry]

Sure, but I know what it'll sound like...the SQ is always much better when using the Supplier, as we *are* listening to the PSU.
 
BTW, I don't really see the point of the option to run it adaptive or async, as neither of them requires drivers. You only need proprietary drivers for >96kHz on windows....I guess they give this option to the end-user so he can hear the diff. and see that they didn't lie about it. Many companies like to boast about async these days, when it's actually adaptive.
 
I might try some windows version of USBProber to double-check it.

 

[Curly21029]

 
Quote:

Sure, but I know what it'll sound like...the SQ is always much better when using the Supplier, as we *are* listening to the PSU.
 
BTW, I don't really see the point of the option to run it adaptive or async, as neither of them requires drivers. You only need proprietary drivers for >96kHz on windows....I guess they give this option to the end-user so he can hear the diff. and see that they didn't lie about it. Many companies like to boast about async these days, when it's actually adaptive.
 
I might try some windows version of USBProber to double-check it.

Thanks!
 
Yes, I understand that a decent PSU increases performance to a degree.  It would be nice to know what exactly those advantages are for this little guy in particular since this increase varies by product.  Considering the incredibly small form factor of Firestone's products, one would believe the Supplier upgrade would be significant as it doesn't leave much space for internal components.
 
"Many companies?"  Really?  Sure makes research a little tougher.  I seen the posts about Burson.  Personally, I could care less as long as it sounds good.  Theoretically, however, asynchronous does hold the advantage.
 

 

[ovk1307]

You did well with your investigations-but I do have a bit more gear that I didn't mention.itLTW only been running for a week or so and therefore I can't comment on burn in-and burnin is so subjective! Neutral is how I would describe ILTW- if want wide sound stage you listen to AKG1000-nothing else comes near,you want warm listen through valves(300Bs)
I'm not saying the ILTWs are the best ,but for the money fantastic and as HiDef is relatively young I wouldn't want to lash out on something expensive right now-and yes the unit plays top bit rate but the led won't move(I know because I've swapped DACs around)
I have got it stacked on the power supply(had it from previous Firestone DAC)-funny how Toslink was the way to go last year but USB is all the rage now.

All I have to do now is see if I can make HiDef portable with Hyperdrive and iPad!- then paradise

 

[ovk1307]

The reviews so far say the Burson has some problems with asynchronous high bit rates otherwise I would have bought it!

 

[tomscy2000]

HAHA I didn't realize this thread popped up!
 
A few things:
 
(1) Firestone is supposed to be working on an x64 driver than will enable asynchronous mode on x64 OSes, but I have no idea if or when it'll be released. The word on street is August, but I prefer not to trust in gossip.
 
(2) I listened to a few tracks in async mode off a store computer... 16/44, 24/96, 24/192... they all sounded great with no output issues. Resolution was resoundingly good.
 
(3) I tested my own tracks in adaptive mode (my laptop is Win7 x64) and it still sounded pretty good, but soundstage realism seemed to suffer in minor aspects. It's still one of the best DACs I've listened to asynchronous or not.
 
(4) I criticized the aesthetics of the box because it truly isn't very well implemented from a design standpoint. I actually appreciate Firestone for taking pride in Taiwan, but the implementation of the acrylic plate was very gaudy and detracted from quality of products that Firestone (as well as Taiwan in general) normally puts out.
 
(5) It's over $350 elsewhere, but in Taiwan it only costs around $200, which is why it has been given the 'giant killer' moniker here.
 
(6) The LEDs sometimes malfunction in displaying the correct output mode, especially when changing output modes (on Foobar or whatever else you might use), but it actually provides a good indicator for testing whether you're getting bit-perfect playback (not a true indicator, but at least prompts you to check whether you accidentally left some DSP chains on, etc.)

 

[Curly21029]

 
Quote:

HAHA I didn't realize this thread popped up!
 
A few things:
 
(1) Firestone is supposed to be working on an x64 driver than will enable asynchronous mode on x64 OSes, but I have no idea if or when it'll be released. The word on street is August, but I prefer not to trust in gossip.
 
(2) I listened to a few tracks in async mode off a store computer... 16/44, 24/96, 24/192... they all sounded great with no output issues. Resolution was resoundingly good.
 
(3) I tested my own tracks in adaptive mode (my laptop is Win7 x64) and it still sounded pretty good, but soundstage realism seemed to suffer in minor aspects. It's still one of the best DACs I've listened to asynchronous or not.
 
(4) I criticized the aesthetics of the box because it truly isn't very well implemented from a design standpoint. I actually appreciate Firestone for taking pride in Taiwan, but the implementation of the acrylic plate was very gaudy and detracted from quality of products that Firestone (as well as Taiwan in general) normally puts out.
 
(5) It's over $350 elsewhere, but in Taiwan it only costs around $200, which is why it has been given the 'giant killer' moniker here.
 
(6) The LEDs sometimes malfunction in displaying the correct output mode, especially when changing output modes (on Foobar or whatever else you might use), but it actually provides a good indicator for testing whether you're getting bit-perfect playback (not a true indicator, but at least prompts you to check whether you accidentally left some DSP chains on, etc.)

Thanks for chiming in!
 
Interesting that you can get it so cheap in Taiwan.  Would've already pulled the trigger if I could get it that cheap.  Any Taiwanese retailers that you know of willing to ship it to the States?

 

[tomscy2000]

I'll ask around for you when I have more time. Right now, there's only one storefront that's an official retailer for Firestone that I frequent. They get a limited quantity of stock, and they sell out pretty quickly.