The one I tested was bought in February 2020.
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Final Audio D8000 Planar Magnetic Headphone
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Clipping due to poor amplification is not likely in my case : my set is PC -> Eitr -> AudioGD NFB20.2 -> ifi Pro iCan.
I agree, most likely it's not
I think it goes beyond the early models. When I reviewed the Pro earlier this year, I was able to duplicate this issue.
the unit came out in 2019 late.... so I think early this year still qualifies.
Hi all! I have been a D8000 Pro owner for some time and recently added another planar to my inventory, the T+A Solitaire P. I already sent it on Facebook, but here is my brief summary for both:
- D8000 Pro wins on clarity and resolving airy presentation. It is easier to drive and can be driven acceptably well from a portable source. It sounds good with whatever you throw at it, especially as it sounds a little bit more compressed. D8000 Pro can be driven well from a less than TOTL source fairly well. The space is smaller, which gives the advantage of sharper envelopes of instruments in a smaller space, with denser textures.
- Solitaire wins with the 3D sound space and the bass. This can even be considered a bass heads planar wet dream. But the larger space plus the meatier lower mids and bass makes it very recording picky. The mids are even more distant due to the larger sound space. So you will easily notice the mixing inconsistencies. I will give examples later. It is also warmer of the two.
- They are about the same weight. I like the headband design of D8000 and the cup design of Solitaire.
- If you want a single HP that sounds good with nearly everything and most sources, go with the D8000 Pro. Solitaire has some advantages over D8000 Pro, but not in all scenarios. You need to make sure it plays well with your source and the type of music and recordings you have. You might still prefer it over D8000 Pro for everything, but I would not recommend a blind buy.
I have been listening to the Solitaire P with Hiby R8 and HA200. Hiby R8 is one of the most powerful DAPs out there with excellent mids - but it just doesn't do the justice for Solitaire P. I think Solitaire P really needs a proper amp with a very good DAC. I noticed that the reviews that praise the Solitaire most are with HA200. With R8 the mids lose the focus and are kind of uncontrolled. On HA200 it is at a different level.
So if you are looking to use the Solitaire P with a portable setup, unless you have a real good portable amp like Romi BX2 Plus (just guessing that it might help but not for sure), I wouldn't recommend it.
D8000 are easier to drive and are the clearer of the two. The clarity difference is more audible on R8 than HA200. The imaging and separation is incredible on HA200. The sound room of Solitaire is biiig. Tall and deep. It is a whole different level of experience! At least for me it neither lacks mids, nor the treble. Because the sound room is big, you don't need the intimacy or the push, it is right there in its own space.
My main testing album is "El cuento de la buena pipa" from Alain Perez which is a very well produced album.
I guess one of the reasons why I liked Solitaire so much is the bass, the majestic bass that goes growling low and fills the room. But at the same time does not take away from the rest of the frequency spectrum, as it has so much space to move. I do love bass players (Alain Perez is also a bass player), so I wanted to check this time my other favorite "bass player" albums, Golden Striker Live from Ron Carter, and Oriental Bass and Mediterranees from Renaud Garcia-Fons.
One issue with Solitaire is that, as you have such a big 3D sound room if you immediately hear the incoherence between the recording rooms of different instruments and their reverberation. Same with vocals. With other headphones you notice it, with Solitaire it can become annoying. Listening to the start with the majestic 5 string double bass of Garcia Fons, then accordion comes in which is just weak and off.
Then you might think that it is something to the with the frequency response of Solitaire, but it is not, as accordion mix is well done in the whole Mediterranees album:
But switching to Golden Striker from Ron Carter, that massive sounding reverby bass is gone and you have a very controlled and tamed bass. And it is depicted perfectly, nothing overpowered. Mids and upper frequencies are dancing perfectly over the bass.
I think if you are targeting Solitaire, you should keep these in mind:
- It is brutally accurate, nothing more, nothing less, so you better have good recordings if you are sensitive
- It needs a very good accompanying source.
D8000 Pro it is an excellent HP but Solitaire is something else when it comes to depicting a 3D image with dead sharp imaging and separation. Especially after listening to a recording where the percussion and bass is not shy to fill in the space, or there is a "cacophony" of instruments like the Alain Perez albums.
There are scenarios (and temporary preferences) that doesn't benefit much from the large space and might make some instruments sound iffy, in which case I prefer the more tight envelope of D8000 more. It gives a better texture feeling, but actually in real life and live listening one would rarely have this intimacy and well enveloped texture. Also there is a bit of more "air" with D8000 and D9200 which I can imagine might be a preference in certain cases, but this is also something more nitpicking which is more noticeable if you switch back and forth between the HPs, but the feeling subsidies in seconds. For example this little piece from Alain Perez & Omara Portuondo album ADN, one might prefer the D8000 / D9200 sound (side note, I cannot believe Omara was over 80 as she recorded this and have this control over her voice):
I think main question could have been, how the vocals will sound. I tried different well made recordings of Cecilia Bartoli, Ghada Shbeir, and female vocals actually rendered extremely well which does not need the unnatural extra push of Focals. I mainly listened to my wife's album and had her listen to it (she just hates listening to it), who is a Stellia fan, and she was very impressed with the rendition. For example, with this piece, it is easier to hear some nuances with D8000 and the vocals pop up more, but with the Solitaire P, you are inside the room, and all the bowed instruments are rendered more emotional (the "strange" instrument you year at 0:14 and 1:41 is called a singing saw):
The subtle back vocals merge better with the main vocals here.
I don't think it is lacking any details. On the contrary, it can easily fill up the space with reverberations and harmonics. But as said, this expansive sound makes the mixing issues related to locations and recording space differences more visible. It is not a "throw whatever you want at it and it will sound as good" HP like D8000 Pro.
One last comment, for the heavy gain music. Here the subtle compressed and closer rendition of D8000 Pro helps. For example, this piece from the last album of Nile, Vile Nilotic Rites. Guitars sound disconnected from the bass and drums. Don't get me wrong, it is still great but I would probably even prefer my D9200 over Solitaire for listening to this kind of mix. D9200 is a _very_ clear and balanced sounding HP and I would never see it as less, just because it costs less. Here is the piece:
It is again a problem with the mix: Strong kicks, very 3D drums and bass, massive sounding splashy cymbals, but very flat guitars. But it does not have to be, just as in the original mastering (I don't like the 2004 remaster) of the Megadeth's Train of Consequences. It sounds awesome with Solitaire:
So, if you want to be mix independent for high gain music, if you have enough money to buy Solitire P, D8000 Pro and D9200, I would highly recommend here the D9200, and with the remaining money you can upgrade your amp. It will leak less, sound in general more satisfying. In fact, for anyone looking for a closed back, I would highly recommend the D9200. Next choice would be D8000 Pro and then Solitaire, if you want to be on the safe side - that is for high gain music.
- D8000 Pro wins on clarity and resolving airy presentation. It is easier to drive and can be driven acceptably well from a portable source. It sounds good with whatever you throw at it, especially as it sounds a little bit more compressed. D8000 Pro can be driven well from a less than TOTL source fairly well. The space is smaller, which gives the advantage of sharper envelopes of instruments in a smaller space, with denser textures.
- Solitaire wins with the 3D sound space and the bass. This can even be considered a bass heads planar wet dream. But the larger space plus the meatier lower mids and bass makes it very recording picky. The mids are even more distant due to the larger sound space. So you will easily notice the mixing inconsistencies. I will give examples later. It is also warmer of the two.
- They are about the same weight. I like the headband design of D8000 and the cup design of Solitaire.
- If you want a single HP that sounds good with nearly everything and most sources, go with the D8000 Pro. Solitaire has some advantages over D8000 Pro, but not in all scenarios. You need to make sure it plays well with your source and the type of music and recordings you have. You might still prefer it over D8000 Pro for everything, but I would not recommend a blind buy.
I have been listening to the Solitaire P with Hiby R8 and HA200. Hiby R8 is one of the most powerful DAPs out there with excellent mids - but it just doesn't do the justice for Solitaire P. I think Solitaire P really needs a proper amp with a very good DAC. I noticed that the reviews that praise the Solitaire most are with HA200. With R8 the mids lose the focus and are kind of uncontrolled. On HA200 it is at a different level.
So if you are looking to use the Solitaire P with a portable setup, unless you have a real good portable amp like Romi BX2 Plus (just guessing that it might help but not for sure), I wouldn't recommend it.
D8000 are easier to drive and are the clearer of the two. The clarity difference is more audible on R8 than HA200. The imaging and separation is incredible on HA200. The sound room of Solitaire is biiig. Tall and deep. It is a whole different level of experience! At least for me it neither lacks mids, nor the treble. Because the sound room is big, you don't need the intimacy or the push, it is right there in its own space.
My main testing album is "El cuento de la buena pipa" from Alain Perez which is a very well produced album.
I guess one of the reasons why I liked Solitaire so much is the bass, the majestic bass that goes growling low and fills the room. But at the same time does not take away from the rest of the frequency spectrum, as it has so much space to move. I do love bass players (Alain Perez is also a bass player), so I wanted to check this time my other favorite "bass player" albums, Golden Striker Live from Ron Carter, and Oriental Bass and Mediterranees from Renaud Garcia-Fons.
One issue with Solitaire is that, as you have such a big 3D sound room if you immediately hear the incoherence between the recording rooms of different instruments and their reverberation. Same with vocals. With other headphones you notice it, with Solitaire it can become annoying. Listening to the start with the majestic 5 string double bass of Garcia Fons, then accordion comes in which is just weak and off.
Then you might think that it is something to the with the frequency response of Solitaire, but it is not, as accordion mix is well done in the whole Mediterranees album:
But switching to Golden Striker from Ron Carter, that massive sounding reverby bass is gone and you have a very controlled and tamed bass. And it is depicted perfectly, nothing overpowered. Mids and upper frequencies are dancing perfectly over the bass.
I think if you are targeting Solitaire, you should keep these in mind:
- It is brutally accurate, nothing more, nothing less, so you better have good recordings if you are sensitive
- It needs a very good accompanying source.
D8000 Pro it is an excellent HP but Solitaire is something else when it comes to depicting a 3D image with dead sharp imaging and separation. Especially after listening to a recording where the percussion and bass is not shy to fill in the space, or there is a "cacophony" of instruments like the Alain Perez albums.
There are scenarios (and temporary preferences) that doesn't benefit much from the large space and might make some instruments sound iffy, in which case I prefer the more tight envelope of D8000 more. It gives a better texture feeling, but actually in real life and live listening one would rarely have this intimacy and well enveloped texture. Also there is a bit of more "air" with D8000 and D9200 which I can imagine might be a preference in certain cases, but this is also something more nitpicking which is more noticeable if you switch back and forth between the HPs, but the feeling subsidies in seconds. For example this little piece from Alain Perez & Omara Portuondo album ADN, one might prefer the D8000 / D9200 sound (side note, I cannot believe Omara was over 80 as she recorded this and have this control over her voice):
I think main question could have been, how the vocals will sound. I tried different well made recordings of Cecilia Bartoli, Ghada Shbeir, and female vocals actually rendered extremely well which does not need the unnatural extra push of Focals. I mainly listened to my wife's album and had her listen to it (she just hates listening to it), who is a Stellia fan, and she was very impressed with the rendition. For example, with this piece, it is easier to hear some nuances with D8000 and the vocals pop up more, but with the Solitaire P, you are inside the room, and all the bowed instruments are rendered more emotional (the "strange" instrument you year at 0:14 and 1:41 is called a singing saw):
The subtle back vocals merge better with the main vocals here.
I don't think it is lacking any details. On the contrary, it can easily fill up the space with reverberations and harmonics. But as said, this expansive sound makes the mixing issues related to locations and recording space differences more visible. It is not a "throw whatever you want at it and it will sound as good" HP like D8000 Pro.
One last comment, for the heavy gain music. Here the subtle compressed and closer rendition of D8000 Pro helps. For example, this piece from the last album of Nile, Vile Nilotic Rites. Guitars sound disconnected from the bass and drums. Don't get me wrong, it is still great but I would probably even prefer my D9200 over Solitaire for listening to this kind of mix. D9200 is a _very_ clear and balanced sounding HP and I would never see it as less, just because it costs less. Here is the piece:
It is again a problem with the mix: Strong kicks, very 3D drums and bass, massive sounding splashy cymbals, but very flat guitars. But it does not have to be, just as in the original mastering (I don't like the 2004 remaster) of the Megadeth's Train of Consequences. It sounds awesome with Solitaire:
So, if you want to be mix independent for high gain music, if you have enough money to buy Solitire P, D8000 Pro and D9200, I would highly recommend here the D9200, and with the remaining money you can upgrade your amp. It will leak less, sound in general more satisfying. In fact, for anyone looking for a closed back, I would highly recommend the D9200. Next choice would be D8000 Pro and then Solitaire, if you want to be on the safe side - that is for high gain music.
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Hi all! I have been a D8000 Pro owner for some time and recently added another planar to my inventory, the T+A Solitaire P. I already sent it on Facebook, but here is my brief summary for both:
- D8000 Pro wins on clarity and resolving airy presentation. It is easier to drive and can be driven acceptably well from a portable source. It sounds good with whatever you throw at it, especially as it sounds a little bit more compressed. D8000 Pro can be driven well from a less than TOTL source fairly well. The space is smaller, which gives the advantage of sharper envelopes of instruments in a smaller space, with denser textures.
- Solitaire wins with the 3D sound space and the bass. This can even be considered a bass heads planar wet dream. But the larger space plus the meatier lower mids and bass makes it very recording picky. The mids are even more distant due to the larger sound space. So you will easily notice the mixing inconsistencies. I will give examples later. It is also warmer of the two.
- They are about the same weight. I like the headband design of D8000 and the cup design of Solitaire.
- If you want a single HP that sounds good with nearly everything and most sources, go with the D8000 Pro. Solitaire has some advantages over D8000 Pro, but not in all scenarios. You need to make sure it plays well with your source and the type of music and recordings you have. You might still prefer it over D8000 Pro for everything, but I would not recommend a blind buy.
I have been listening to the Solitaire P with Hiby R8 and HA200. Hiby R8 is one of the most powerful DAPs out there with excellent mids - but it just doesn't do the justice for Solitaire P. I think Solitaire P really needs a proper amp with a very good DAC. I noticed that the reviews that praise the Solitaire most are with HA200. With R8 the mids lose the focus and are kind of uncontrolled. On HA200 it is at a different level.
So if you are looking to use the Solitaire P with a portable setup, unless you have a real good portable amp like Romi BX2 Plus (just guessing that it might help but not for sure), I wouldn't recommend it.
D8000 are easier to drive and are the clearer of the two. The clarity difference is more audible on R8 than HA200. The imaging and separation is incredible on HA200. The sound room of Solitaire is biiig. Tall and deep. It is a whole different level of experience! At least for me it neither lacks mids, nor the treble. Because the sound room is big, you don't need the intimacy or the push, it is right there in its own space.
My main testing album is "El cuento de la buena pipa" from Alain Perez which is a very well produced album.
I guess one of the reasons why I liked Solitaire so much is the bass, the majestic bass that goes growling low and fills the room. But at the same time does not take away from the rest of the frequency spectrum, as it has so much space to move. I do love bass players (Alain Perez is also a bass player), so I wanted to check this time my other favorite "bass player" albums, Golden Striker Live from Ron Carter, and Oriental Bass and Mediterranees from Renaud Garcia-Fons.
One issue with Solitaire is that, as you have such a big 3D sound room if you immediately hear the incoherence between the recording rooms of different instruments and their reverberation. Same with vocals. With other headphones you notice it, with Solitaire it can become annoying. Listening to the start with the majestic 5 string double bass of Garcia Fons, then accordion comes in which is just weak and off.
Then you might think that it is something to the with the frequency response of Solitaire, but it is not, as accordion mix is well done in the whole Mediterranees album:
But switching to Golden Striker from Ron Carter, that massive sounding reverby bass is gone and you have a very controlled and tamed bass. And it is depicted perfectly, nothing overpowered. Mids and upper frequencies are dancing perfectly over the bass.
I think if you are targeting Solitaire, you should keep these in mind:
- It is brutally accurate, nothing more, nothing less, so you better have good recordings if you are sensitive
- It needs a very good accompanying source.
- Again, I don't think anything is missing from the mids or highs
D8000 Pro it is an excellent HP but Solitaire is something else when it comes to depicting a 3D image with dead sharp imaging and separation. Especially after listening to a recording where the percussion and bass is not shy to fill in the space, or there is a "cacophony" of instruments like the Alain Perez albums.
There are scenarios (and temporary preferences) that doesn't benefit much from the large space and might make some instruments sound iffy, in which case I prefer the more tight envelope of D8000 more. It gives a better texture feeling, but actually in real life and live listening one would rarely have this intimacy and well enveloped texture. Also there is a bit of more "air" with D8000 and D9200 which I can imagine might be a preference in certain cases, but this is also something more nitpicking which is more noticeable if you switch back and forth between the HPs, but the feeling subsidies in seconds. For example this little piece from Alain Perez & Omara Portuondo album ADN, one might prefer the D8000 / D9200 sound (side note, I cannot believe Omara was over 80 as she recorded this and have this control over her voice):
I think main question could have been, how the vocals will sound. I tried different well made recordings of Cecilia Bartoli, Ghada Shbeir, and female vocals actually rendered extremely well which does not need the unnatural extra push of Focals. I mainly listened to my wife's album and had her listen to it (she just hates listening to it), who is a Stellia fan, and she was very impressed with the rendition. For example, with this piece, it is easier to hear some nuances with D8000 and the vocals pop up more, but with the Solitaire P, you are inside the room, and all the bowed instruments are rendered more emotional (the "strange" instrument you year at 0:14 and 1:41 is called a singing saw):
The subtle back vocals merge better with the main vocals here.
I don't think it is lacking any details. On the contrary, it can easily fill up the space with reverberations and harmonics. But as said, this expansive sound makes the mixing issues related to locations and recording space differences more visible. It is not a "throw whatever you want at it and it will sound as good" HP like D8000 Pro.
One last comment, for the heavy gain music. Here the subtle compressed and closer rendition of D8000 Pro helps. For example, this piece from the last album of Nile, Vile Nilotic Rites. Guitars sound disconnected from the bass and drums. Don't get me wrong, it is still great but I would probably even prefer my D9200 over Solitaire for listening to this kind of mix. D9200 is a _very_ clear and balanced sounding HP and I would never see it as less, just because it costs less. Here is the piece:
It is again a problem with the mix: Strong kicks, very 3D drums and bass, massive sounding splashy cymbals, but very flat guitars. But it does not have to be, just as in the original mastering (I don't like the 2004 remaster) of the Megadeth's Train of Consequences. It sounds awesome with Solitaire:
So, if you want to be mix independent for high gain music, if you have enough money to buy Solitire P, D8000 Pro and D9200, I would highly recommend here the D9200, and with the remaining money you can upgrade your amp. It will leak less, sound in general more satisfying. In fact, for anyone looking for a closed back, I would highly recommend the D9200. Next choice would be D8000 Pro and then Solitaire, if you want to be on the safe side - that is for high gain music.
I can second most of what you say about the two headphones. Especially the D8000 Pro being one of the best all around headphones there are.
But regarding the bass of the Solitaire P I have to say that, although I listen a lot to bass heavy music like Dubstep, I found at times the powerful bass of the Solitaire P a bit overwhelming.
In the end I went with the Final D8000 Pro and dialed in about 2dB from 10Hz to around 85Hz and increased the mids around 3000 Hz also 2dB and am very pleased with the results. Really sweet mids and a heavy, full bass, but never does the bass feel too strong.
BTW, T&A has come out with a cheaper version of their Solitaire P, called the Solitaire-P SE, but I did not have a chance yet to audition those.
ThanatosVI
Headphoneus Supremus
You guys really set expectations for a Bass connosoir like me.
If only soneone could compare it to the LCD-4 in the bass Departement (everything else should be a day and night difference)
Solitaire P can give you jaw dropping experience with some recordings. a lot of wow with others, and "oh, no, this is wrong" due to amount of bass or mids positioning with (mainly due to the mix) many. The Nile piece I sent above sounds so wrong with Solitaire, giant 3D drums and cymbals vs point sourced guitars - which is not that audible with a smaller driver with a more conservative bass. Very picky headphones. Both with the mix and the source.
The new SE will be available from 25 January on.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/marksp...on-of-stunning-solitaire-p-planar-headphones/
I see one Solitaire P and one TH900 in your future.
I have never tested / considered the LCDs due to weight, unfortunately.
ThanatosVI
Headphoneus Supremus
My current plans are to test the Solitaire P and LCD-4 on my chain, possibly adding both in the end for my Trifecta with the Empyrean.I see one Solitaire P and one TH900 in your future.
With the SE being on the Horizon I will give them a listen as well, maybe they aren't a lesser Version of the Flagship but offer a different Sound signature.
And now you just added the TH900 on the list of "must trys"
I'm basically immune to weight, had the LCD-2C in the past and also considered them very comfy.
Probably will be similar for the 4 even though they are slightly heavier.
smodtactical
Headphoneus Supremus
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Solitaire P can give you jaw dropping experience with some recordings. a lot of wow with others, and "oh, no, this is wrong" due to amount of bass or mids positioning with (mainly due to the mix) many. The Nile piece I sent above sounds so wrong with Solitaire, giant 3D drums and cymbals vs point sourced guitars - which is not that audible with a smaller driver with a more conservative bass. Very picky headphones. Both with the mix and the source.
The new SE will be available from 25 January on.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/marksp...on-of-stunning-solitaire-p-planar-headphones/
I see one Solitaire P and one TH900 in your future.
Have you heard susvara?
So I should be happy with Solitaire p for edm. Which is all I listen to.
No, I haven't tried Susvara. I wouldn't prefer a too difficult to drive HP. I have invested in a good DAC / amp combo and would prefer to build around it. As I understand, the bass performance of Susvara is not satisfactory with my amp, HA200. I also sometimes use my HPs with a portable, which is not possible with Susvara.
I think you should be, but if you are used to bright highs with lots of air, you might need to add a little bit EQ on top. Bass should be quite satisfactory, I guess, but Solitaire P responds very well to EQ and you can push also the sub-bass a bit higher, if you like. I don't know much about the genre but I typed EDM and tried a few pieces, and that was my impression.
Sounds like LCD2 Classic which is a dark signature to it.
WadaHiFi
100+ Head-Fier
Any one tried sonorous x before? How does it compare to the d8000 or d8000 pro?
Well my D8000 Pro just arrived...so far so good. These cables yikes....
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