[TheoS53]

Interesting concept Theo.  I guess it depends on how much it costs to implement the little extras and whether or not it is ultimately worth having a different model/SKU.  Would be interesting to see James' view on it.

Well, the concept might already be in place....
Seeing as the Q5 wil also have this modular amp section (unless I've missed something), perhaps one of the modules could be designed to have those extra inputs/outputs and bypass the other processing bits and pieces

 

[Westerborn]

I think that FiiO may be a bit wary of having a two tiers of the same product after the reaction to the 'pro' version of the X7. Though sure the modularity of these two units would allow for customisation for those that want an optical compared to those who don't. I know little about how this would go about, but food for thought? (I realise this is utterly repeating @TheoS53, sorry about that).
 
With the Q5, I'm fairly sure it's going into mass production soon and were there to be any 'pro' version it would likely be in any future Q7 (should the convention follow that way). This is in comparison to the 'pro' X7 which is still ostensibly the same unit but with extra memory and RAM (unless I'm wildly mistaken). It'll be interesting to hear James' take. 

 

[Shenook]

I think that FiiO may be a bit wary of having a two tiers of the same product after the reaction to the 'pro' version of the X7. Though sure the modularity of these two units would allow for customisation for those that want an optical compared to those who don't. I know little about how this would go about, but food for thought? (I realise this is utterly repeating @TheoS53, sorry about that).

With the Q5, I'm fairly sure it's going into mass production soon and were there to be any 'pro' version it would likely be in any future Q7 (should the convention follow that way). This is in comparison to the 'pro' X7 which is still ostensibly the same unit but with extra memory and RAM (unless I'm wildly mistaken). It'll be interesting to hear James' take. 

Actually it shares a lot but is a completely different dac chip... The q5 is an ak4490 and i believe the x7 is a sabre 9018 variant... Different sound for sure.

 

[HiFiChris]

Is the decision of the AKM final? I thought they were still in the phase where they were about to decide whether to implement the ESS or AKM.
 
The AKM chip is a nice DAc as well, though. Resolving, detailed, yet smooth at the same time (depending on the implementation of course, and even speaking in general, the differences between various chips are rather extremely minute, too, if properly volume-matched when doing the comparisons).

 

[John Culter]

Actually it shares a lot but is a completely different dac chip... The q5 is an ak4490 and i believe the x7 is a sabre 9018 variant... Different sound for sure.

Don't want to start any flame war , but IMHO nobody is able to pass the blind test if he is listening to the dual AK4490 or dual ESS9018.
Major difference in 'signature' is caused by the different amp sections and the rest of the DAC implementation in various devices.
 
If you put any of those 2015/2016 DACs side by side under the same conditions, difference is mostly just measurable with very sensitive devices, not with human ear at all.

 

[Shenook]

Is the decision of the AKM final? I thought they were still in the phase where they were about to decide whether to implement the ESS or AKM.

The AKM chip is a nice DAc as well, though. Resolving, detailed, yet smooth at the same time (depending on the implementation of course, and even speaking in general, the differences between various chips are rather extremely minute, too, if properly volume-matched when doing the comparisons).

Slight differences for sure at this level... Read page 1.. They updated the initial post to confirm ak4490

 

[Shenook]

Don't want to start any flame war , but IMHO nobody is able to pass the blind test if he is listening to the dual AK4490 or dual ESS9018.
Major difference in 'signature' is caused by the different amp sections and the rest of the DAC implementation in various devices.

If you put any of those 2015/2016 DACs side by side under the same conditions, difference is mostly just measurable with very sensitive devices, not with human ear at all.

Won't argue with you there... I would say sabre is more analytic and ak has better warmth... I have both. And love both depending on gear being used and what i am listening to... Two 9018s in any device is dumb... I think it has 8 channels... Why do you need 2 chips?? No benefit unless you are a battery manufacturer and want to sell larger batteries

 

[HiFiChris]

 

Don't want to start any flame war , but IMHO nobody is able to pass the blind test if he is listening to the dual AK4490 or dual ESS9018.
Major difference in 'signature' is caused by the different amp sections and the rest of the DAC implementation in various devices.

If you put any of those 2015/2016 DACs side by side under the same conditions, difference is mostly just measurable with very sensitive devices, not with human ear at all.

Won't argue with you there... I would say sabre is more analytic and ak has better warmth... I have both. And love both depending on gear being used and what i am listening to... Two 9018s in any device is dumb... I think it has 8 channels... Why do you need 2 chips?? No benefit unless you are a battery manufacturer and want to sell larger batteries

 
They almost decided to use the AKM. Doesn't say that the decision is 100% final and cast in stone. 

 
Having thought about the whole thing again, it is probably better for FiiO, from a marketing and selling point of view, to implement the AKM converters, so that also more X7 owners are attracted by it due to having DAC chips from different manufacturers ("Oh, they are using an AKM DAC, so it might sound different - I think I'll try that" contrary to "Hey, it's got an ESS chip, like my X7, so I'll pass on this one").

 

[Shenook]

They almost decided to use the AKM. Doesn't say that the decision is 100% final and cast in stone. 

Having thought about the whole thing again, it is probably better for FiiO, from a marketing and selling point of view, to implement the AKM converters, so that also more X7 owners are attracted by it due to having DAC chips from different manufacturers ("Oh, they are using an AKM DAC, so it might sound different - I think I'll try that" contrary to "Hey, it's got an ESS chip, like my X7, so I'll pass on this one").

I agree with you.. Good to differentiate... I already have multiple devices with sabre dacs including my phone lgv10 and my benchmark dac2 hgc desktop dac... Getting an ak based device is high on my list since i now have the mojo which arrived today... Sadly cannot even listen to it for 10 hours... Says to charge it that long first... I will get the q5 if it is an ak4490 or variant... If it is a sabre then no thanks... Sabre is great but got too many of those.

 

[m0k4]

The balanced amp module that will come will can drive Something like hd650? And it will be trrs like AeK and onkyo or double trs like sony and pono?

 

[Stanley chin]

James,good work,but when will it release.the first thing i will do is compare to the oppo ha-2 if they are almost the same price.

 

[f4phantom2500]

I did a basic search in this thread but didn't see an answer to a question.

Have Fiio considered designing a custom dac/amp in house, like chord did with the mojo? Not sure if the design principles behind their products can be matched, but it would be very interesting to me, especially if it could mean further SQ improvements over 'off the shelf' DACs

 

[Deftone]

well the reason companies go with off the shelf is because its much easier. i dont know if fiio has the years of experience and knowledge for that kind of dac.

 

[Koolpep]

I did a basic search in this thread but didn't see an answer to a question.

Have Fiio considered designing a custom dac/amp in house, like chord did with the mojo? Not sure if the design principles behind their products can be matched, but it would be very interesting to me, especially if it could mean further SQ improvements over 'off the shelf' DACs

There are not many companies designing DACs -
AKM Semiconductor {Audio ADCs/DAC IC Manufacturer}
Analog Devices {Analog-to-Digital Converters/Digital-to-Analog Converter ICs}
Cirrus Logic {Audio A/D and D/A converters, CODEC Manufacturer}
Fairchild Semiconductor {ADCs/DAC IC Manufacturer}
Holtek Semiconductor Inc. {DAC/ADC ICs}
Intersil {ADCs/DAC IC Manufacturer}
Linear Technology {ADCs/DAC IC Manufacturer}
Maxim Integrated Products {ADCs/DAC IC Manufacturer}
Microchip {Delta-Sigma/Dual Slope/Binary/BCD ADC ICs}
National Semiconductor {ADCs/DAC IC Manufacturer}
NEC {D/A Converter for Audio System}
NJR Corporation {ADC-DAC-V/F-F/V Converter ICs}
Renesas Technology America, Inc {D/A R2R, Multiplying, A/D Converter}
Sony {A/D Converter 1:2 De-Multiplex, TTL Output, Sample & Hold, D/A Converter}
Thaler Corp. {A/D Converter Manufacturer. ADC 18-26 bits}
Texas Instruments 'TI' {ADC-DAC-Voltage/Freq Converter IC Manufacturers}
Wavefront Semiconductor {48kHz 24-bit stereo audio ADC, low-cost 24-bit DAC IC Manufacturer}
Wolfson Microelectronics
{Mono, Multi-channel and Stereo ADCs}
 
(copied from : http://www.interfacebus.com/Analog_DAC.html )
 
 - and then FCPGA DACs like then ones from Chord. 
 
This is pretty hard stuff to do and also not a super profitable business. One of the reasons the DACs don't get updated much. I mean the Wolfson 8740 is decades old (and still good).
 
Anyhow, consolidation is setting in as well. Wolfson is now owned by Cirrus Logic, BurrBrown by Texas Instruments, etc.
 
It takes an awful lot of brain power to create a DAC equal to the ones available. Making it BETTER, well. That's a different story. And then you can buy the existing DACs for a handful of dollars - so no high return business unless you are in it for the long run. 
 
Cheers!

 

[f4phantom2500]

So based on that i have to assume the dude at chord (whose name escapes me at the moment) is some sort of DAC designing savant, and/or he/they are just ridiculously passionate about it? Interesting. So does that mean Chord makes the only FPGA DACs, and any more specific info on why nobody else makes/has made them? I mean, i get it its difficult, but so difficult that this the sole company that is or has ever been willing/able to produce them?