[HulalaHifi]

Finally I figure out how to make my Qobuz hi-res streaming playback to my Q5 DAC in DSD 256 format

 

[Julius Decimus]

Good day people.

Does someone has experience with the AM5 module ?

I use the Q5 only as an amplifier and with AM5 Its only about 30% louder than the stock AM3A. That normal ?

Used as DAC and amp is little bit better, but still doesnt feel entirely right. I have the old Fiio E12a and JDS Labs C5, both are more powerful than this. For the C5 is normal, but the E12a is as well, and looking the specs of the AM5.....should not be so.

I have the Fiio X5 the first generation, i use the amps with it, or with regular computer. So thats the source.

Headphones used, from 32 to 300ohms, same result.

If the E12a is more powerful, looking the specs, the AM5 makes less than 400mW into 32ohms. I understand the device is intended to be used as DAC, not only as an amp, but after what i experienced, purely as an amp, its not very good at this.

Line out is very good tho...

I was just wondering if someone really uses this only as an amp sometimes, and what the observations are. Does it feels underpowered ?

Apart from this, no really problems with the device, Bluetooth, connectivity, all is fine, rock solid.

 

[HulalaHifi]

Good day people.

Does someone has experience with the AM5 module ?

I use the Q5 only as an amplifier and with AM5 Its only 30% louder than the stock AM3A. That normal ?

Used as DAC and amp is little bit better, but still doesnt feel entirely right. I have the old Fiio E12a and JDS Labs C5, both are more powerful than this. For the C5 is normal, but the E12a is as well, and looking the specs of the AM5.....should not be so.

I have the Fiio X5 the first generation, i use the amps with it, or with regular computer. So thats the source.

Headphones used, from 32 to 300ohms, same result.

If the E12a is more powerful, looking the specs, the AM5 makes less than 400mW into 32ohms. I understand the device is intended to be used as DAC, not only as an amp, but after what i experienced, purely as an amp, its not very good at this.

Line out is very good tho...

I was just wondering if someone really uses this only as an amp sometimes, and what the observations are. Does it feels underpowered ?

Apart from this, no really problems with the device, Bluetooth, connectivity, all is fine, rock solid.

I have been used AM5 with Q5 in the last 6 months and I agreed it's only 30% louder than AM3a, but I don't think that's a problem, and we all know the volume is not the only indicator. With singled ended connection, I prefer AM5 over the AM3A, my Q5/AM5 drives my both Sennheiser HD650 and HD800S very well, outstanding result if you can use DSD256 or PCM 24bit/384 format via USB from Qobuz hi-res or Roon/Qobuz, AM5 shows very good power and refinement when it push my Sennheiser HD800S. Yes, I think E12a is more powerful/much louder, but I have done AB compare, but I don't like E12a, has much more background noise and distortion and a bit muddy too, but still good in its price range. If you have a good source like Qobuz and headphones, stay with Q5/AM5, they are really outstanding, both the DAC and amp, I would consider it in $500~800 price range judged by the sound. AM3a is fun to listen too if you can use balanced ended, more details, but not has as much depth as AM5, I tried both on my HD650 and I prefer AM5. Hope this helps.

 

[Julius Decimus]

Hope this helps.

Mister, i thank you very much for your answer.

So my unit is completely fine and functions as it should be.

The E12a is with more forward mid tones i believe, and when you push it more it just sounds kind of harsh because this.

I have HD650 as well, and the Q5 with AM5 sounds completely fine with it. Its just for i have AKG K712, although in their specs its said 62 or 64 ohm (something like this was), they are somewhat harder to drive than the HD650 300ohms and from there i just was wondering if my Q5 is OK.

I dont have any DSD recordings to try the Q5, but i will search for some soon.

I thank you very much one more time.

 

[Sonic Defender]

Mister, i thank you very much for your answer.

So my unit is completely fine and functions as it should be.

The E12a is with more forward mid tones i believe, and when you push it more it just sounds kind of harsh because this.

I have HD650 as well, and the Q5 with AM5 sounds completely fine with it. Its just for i have AKG K712, although in their specs its said 62 or 64 ohm (something like this was), they are somewhat harder to drive than the HD650 300ohms and from there i just was wondering if my Q5 is OK.

I dont have any DSD recordings to try the Q5, but i will search for some soon.

I thank you very much one more time.

That seems odd, the HD 650 should be the more challenging to drive headphone. The AKG712 is pretty sensitive so not sure what might be happening. I wonder if the different sound signatures and how they present make the HD650 seem fuller and louder to you. I'll admit that I have never enjoyed the AKG house sound so I haven't owned any of their headphones.

 

[HulalaHifi]

That seems odd, the HD 650 should be the more challenging to drive headphone. The AKG712 is pretty sensitive so not sure what might be happening. I wonder if the different sound signatures and how they present make the HD650 seem fuller and louder to you. I'll admit that I have never enjoyed the AKG house sound so I haven't owned any of their headphones.

I don't have AGK712, but I have AKGQ701, and I found they are harder to drive using Fiio/AM5 compare to Sennheiser HD650 .

 

[Sonic Defender]

I don't have AGK712, but I have AKGQ701, and I found they are harder to drive using Fiio/AM5 compare to Sennheiser HD650 .

Again, trying to understand what about their design might make this possible. So with speakers, generally speaking, cabinet volume has a direct relationship with the maximum volume that can be achieved with the design. I am sure there are other factors, but the relationship is there. I wonder how this translate to headphones, which are ultimately just speakers so perhaps there is a difference. Does the HD650 have more enclosure volume and hence play louder? Not sure, but looking at the specifications, the Q701 or 712 are objectively not harder to drive so clearly there are other design factors at play.

 

[Julius Decimus]

Not sure, but looking at the specifications, the Q701 or 712 are objectively not harder to drive so clearly there are other design factors at play.

Well...long ago i saw some comments, it is said that they have big diaphragm, but the magnets are small inside the driver, and although more energy is taken, they dont produce as much sound. And seems that this counts not only for the K712, but the other AKGs as well. So...they are very amplifier dependid. Looking the specs, sensitivity is 105db/V, which is normal i would say. I mean, its not low.

Q5 with the AM5 is just enough for them, but barely. Because used as an amp, from most devices like phones, PC with regular motherboards, small mp3 players, you dont get good and strong signal out of them (you know, most is easy to connect to 3.5mm headphone output on them, and to the Q5), needs lot more amplification then. And this when it struggles.

For the amp modules....ahm...i im not really fan of the AM5. When i first got my Q5 with its stock AM3A, i was impressed in a way that i will try explain best as i can, so you guys can understand my view. And something important, this is all with bass boost switch on. I havent tried it ever without it. Yeah...so you connect it, you start it, and the sound just comes alive. What i mean by this is, its organic, smooth, linear kind of. And with the bass boost on, it goes more on the dark and warm side of sound, but it just sounds alive. I listen mostly rock, blues, metal music, and live conserts sounds amazing on this. Really something to pick your attention. But single ended output, its just not great in power. It gets the K712 loud, but not really good enough for me personaly. And this is when i was thinking, "well then with the AM5 will be just great". This is how i ordered it. When it came and i installed it, it was another sound signature. Meybe not that big difference for most people, however for me was super drastic. The organic and alive sound was gone, and it turned into somewhat common amplifier. It was more powerful alright, that was clear, but this unique sound signature was gone. And the power...... its not exactly super more compared with the stock module. So i wasnt very pleased at all. Its not as dark and warm sounding, subbass frequencies are there, but its less responsive probably in the 70-90hz where the stock module was better at. The details and the treble is there, nothing missing, but the sound just wasnt alive anymore. This kind of a life bloom was lost.

And then, i have the E12a from Fiio as well. I saw the AM5 module uses the same opamp as the E12a, Muses02. I guess this is why they sound kind of simular. Not the same, but the mids are more forward on the AM5.

As for the headphones, i am not really into the audio hobby stuff like i was 5-6 years ago. But from the past times i have 7-8 models widely used back then. From all the Focal Spirit Pro is the best sounding, but it has big problem - its not comfortable. 2 hours and after you feel like tank was on your head. So as i like the Focal sound most, i was searching for a headphone that is similar to it in terms of details. And the K712 was the one that i found back then, that sounds almost at the same level of detail. I also like listening music little bit louder than what avg. person would like, and so i usually turn down the higher frequencies 4-16khz with 4-6db, not to be harsh and unpleasant. The problem with this was, most of the headphones that i had, just lose the details when you lower them frequencies. And this is normal, but when you listen the music louder, the details and everything should still be there. And this is where i found the K712 to be just the right for me. You can still hear everything with them like with the Focal. As i understand, they dont have the typical AKG sound, they are darker.

So overall thats it why i didnt really liked the AM5. And i tested the E12a with the old Fiio X5 first generation that i have. With the E12a you hear everything that you hear with the Q5, but its not organic, alive sounding like the AM3A. And this is where more expensive devices are for in my opinion. They all have some unique for them sound signature, which makes them different. In terms of what you hear, depends mostly on the headphones.

I also tried to EQ the AM5 to sound like the AM3A, wasnt possible. Its just not alive sounding and thats it.

For the DAC portion, i tried to compare Q5 with X5 (PCM1792a i believe was called) there was nothing that was missing on any of them. What you hear with the X5 is what you hear on the Q5 Dac as well. The difference was, the Texas Instruments Dac chip used in older Fiio devices has more bite to the sound. Is like, you have the 5 filters on AKM and Q5 right, and TI on the X5 sounds like you have one more additional sharp filter on the AKM one to make the sound even sharper than what Sharp Roll-off gives. This is personal preference for everyone i guess, whether you like more smooth and not edgy sound. The details that you hear are same on both.

 

[stephensynanta16]

I'm plugging Fiio FH5 with LC-2.5C into the balanced jack of Q5, is it normal to have hiss in those configuration?

Its the default amp module

 

[Steve Guppy]

I'm plugging Fiio FH5 with LC-2.5C into the balanced jack of Q5, is it normal to have hiss in those configuration?

Its the default amp module

I have the FH5 with a Linsoul gold 2.5mm cable and have barely any hiss at all. Only noticeable on completely quiet passages at reasonable volume... So, not sure? Do you have the gain set to low?

 

[stephensynanta16]

I have the FH5 with a Linsoul gold 2.5mm cable and have barely any hiss at all. Only noticeable on completely quiet passages at reasonable volume... So, not sure? Do you have the gain set to low?

yes, its on low, and yes it's only noticable on quiet passages, but it's quite noticeable i think, i set the volume at 9 o clock, it's audible even when the volume is on 6 o clock.

Is it normal for q5 to behave like that?

 

[Brooko]

Again, trying to understand what about their design might make this possible. So with speakers, generally speaking, cabinet volume has a direct relationship with the maximum volume that can be achieved with the design. I am sure there are other factors, but the relationship is there. I wonder how this translate to headphones, which are ultimately just speakers so perhaps there is a difference. Does the HD650 have more enclosure volume and hence play louder? Not sure, but looking at the specifications, the Q701 or 712 are objectively not harder to drive so clearly there are other design factors at play.

Its the relationship between impedance and sensitivity.

AKGs are lower impedance but also lower sensitivity - so they need more current
Senns are higher impedance but higher sensitivity - so they need more voltage

In terms of overall power - the AKGs require more.

Here's the HD650:

Note the 7.08 Vrms (highish), but quite benign 23.6mA and comparatively small 167.09 mW

Now here's the Q701

Smaller voltage (5.62), but comparatively 4x the current (90.65mA) and a quite high 509.43 mW overall power

Q701 definitely harder to drive, and prefers (not surprisingly) a solid state or hybrid amp rather than straight OTL tube set-up.

 

[Sonic Defender]

Interesting that the difference is that great. I would be interested to know the design parameters that cause this vast a difference in current need. Magnet and diaphragm/dampening factors I suspect. Thanks for the chart.

 

[Theri0n]

Hi,

What amp module would you recommend for low impedance IEM and 24ohm headphones?

 

[Steve Guppy]

Hi,

What amp module would you recommend for low impedance IEM and 24ohm headphones?

I use predominantly IEM'S, and the amp module that comes with it is fine