[waynes world]

Quote:

Personally, I think "congested" is rather the opposite of "clear separation", which means things sound bunched up and less distinct.
 
And to me, "Small soundstage" means either less left-right separation, or less depth to the sound. Compared to some other amps in the same league ($200 and below), I can say E12 is behind C421 and C&C BH when it comes to soundstage. Specifically because left-right separation isn't very wide. Depth is very good on E12, though, and it conveys very good mental image of the sound.

 
+1... I subscribe to your newsletter!

 

[miceblue]

To me, soundstage includes both width and depth (the concept of height is still an abstract idea to me).
 
Width being how far the instruments are panned to the right and left in my head, depth being how far away sounds sound from my head.
 

^ left figure is for a deep and narrow soundstage, right figure is for a more reasonably-spaced soundstage in terms of depth and width (X indicates the listener)
 
 
I often find the instrument separation to correlate with the size of the soundstage. The separation can be good with with a narrow, but deep soundstage and likewise for a wide, but shallow one as well.
 
 
To me, the most natural-sounding soundstage has good depth and width, with clear instrument separation. From my experience with amps so far, they tend to alter the width of the soundstage more than the depth, but both can be affected.

 

[Dyaems]

answers in bold, others are snipped due to "too many scientific mumbo jumbo", i rather answer back in a simple manner, also snipped other parts since it is not really related and it is somewhat off topic
 
Quote:

 
 
I'm glad the E12 is winning over converts. But better than the Arrow?  Perhaps... I hope to read enough insights to glean how, in what ways... keep lots of good adjectives coming!
 
no comment, this will lead to gear bias if i answer it again
 
If someone knows of a comparison in-depth of the sound vs the Arrow, please point me to it. Perhaps I missed one in my search and hundreds of bookmarks. 
 
no comment again, as i mentioned in the previous post, get an E12 bring it to a meet and have people compare it. which is what i usually do.
 
To your speculation, there was no change in "hiss" or "energy" or "liveliness" due to gain changes to speak of (seems like you are guessing).  Even if so, I set that aside for the moment (all gains work for my equipment just fine anyway).   
 
you didnt read my reply carefully. let me quote it here again:
 
Quote:

increasing gain leads to what? hiss, more conjestion, and it will also make the music have more "energy" or "lively"

 
 
 
You may need to be reminded that "congestion" in English audio-speak is not synonymous with "too inimate" in any respect. "Congestion" in my reviewing and reading means one of these: lack of clarity or hearing through to details; possible intermodulation or transient distortion; some type of nonlinear error; a thickening of the sound.  "Too intimate" makes sense to my ear about the Arrow—midrange is a bit forward, but could be linear error (frequency response).  Like someone singing in your ear rather than a normal distance.  But this complements my Audeo 232 well, and my HD650 (modified) well enough.  
 
this is subjective, "anemic" bass to you might not be bass "light" to others, if you understand what i mean =)
 
also, maybe you love your arrow so much that it magically synergizes with your headphones and your source, so no problem with that.

I'm not claiming the Arrow is perfect, but it does right the key things that matter most to me at such a low price. I do hope there are others, but I've read a lot of reviews and not seen any candidates for my needs, other than perhaps the E12 which is much cheaper.  (PS: I missed the latest meet in the San Francisco area lately but was at a previous time).  So asking about the E12 or better still about amps in the $300-500 range is more my interest, come to think of it.  
 
The Arrow is very slim and works well to give me auditory pleasure, so I'm not in a hurry to spend.  
 
the arrow is good enough, i wouldn't give the E12 as an upgrade, but tonally the E12 sounds clearer for what i am hearing.  as i said, when it comes to features, i dont think the Arrow will be beaten by the E12, more like, most, if not, all portable amps there that can beat the arrow.
 
as i said in my impression on the other thread, maybe this "congestion" or "too intimate" im hearing is due to the voltage changing for the headphones, since i dont hear it at all when i use IEMs. maybe you didnt read my impression in the other thread, so might as well as mention it in my reply
 
final words: i rarely rely on reviews, i buy things and test it myself, which is almost always better though it is more costly =(  better yet, try to find time to join meets to further compare your current gears to other gears if you are opting for an upgrade reading reviews or impressions from people with different preferences confuses the s*** out of us who are in the market for something.

 

[Stoney]

Quote:

the arrow is good enough, i wouldn't give the E12 as an upgrade, but tonally the E12 sounds clearer for what i am hearing.  as i said, when it comes to features, i dont think the Arrow will be beaten by the E12, more like, most, if not, all portable amps there that can beat the arrow.
 

 
Thanks, this part is useful.  
 
Otherwise, we seem to be talking past each other.  I am clear you didn't get my intent, and you are clear I didn't get yours.  
 
Please try not to be a dick about it, and don't preach to me how to go about my own investigations... I ask what I ask, because that is what I want and need. My process is not up for votes.  Nor will I buy yet another amp or show up to a meet because someone doesn't get or answer a simple question. If you mind helping me out by repeating something you posted elsewhere, well... I do apologize if you find it annoying; but I'm not a head-fi addict; I have a lot to do that is more essential to me... which maybe you missed in my last message... My doctor... let's say he wants me to value each day that I have.      As for  "too many scientific mumbo jumbo", well... yes I can run on.  But I'm a scientist and write for like-minded folks. And given that we weren't understanding each other, I tried whether more words would help.  Silly me. 
 
As for reviews, I myself have no problem writing or interpreting them (as the famous editor who offered me the top tech job can attest, or the major speaker manufacturer that said I wrote the best technical report of his technology.  I get paid for reviews and consultation....) But that doesn't mean that I don't sometimes TOTALLY misunderstand or miscommunicate at times!!  Talking back and forth is a lot easier than writing something that is perfectly clear.  Sorry....
 
Cheers... I'll go back to browsing mode.  

 

[Dyaems]

cool, good thing you stopped defending your favorite product. come back to this thread when you heard and compared the E12 with your arrow. you dont even need to buy one, you can just join a meet where someone actually has it. you definitely didnt read my post few days ago and just raged upon reading the word "congested" to the point that that i have to reword it again just to make clear. so much for a "scientist".
 
"value each day you have," youre actually trying to hit alot of the users here, except me. sorry. i only read and reply to this forum if i have abit of a free time in the office, or during breaktime. outside the office, or at home, i never visit the forum at all =)
 
and im also going back to lurking mode

 

[Stoney]

May I suggest you work on your reading comprehension in English? Point by point, you are really not getting it. But you don't know how far off you are. 

 

[pngwn]

 

[MrJoshua]

Stoney - I hope you recover fully and quickly.  
 
Best wishes from England.

 

[Stoney]

Thanks, pal!

 

[ghostchili]

V1 vs V2. If I order the E12 today will it be V2 for sure. I plan on ordering from SMICorp. Any info on a V3? I can wait and keep using my E17 if thats the case.

 

[MrJoshua]

Pretty sure if you buy new now, you'll get the V2. No idea about a V3... The V2 was only launched last week!

And in any case, I think it's more like Beta/Pre-Production vs Production, rather than V1/V2.

 

[bowei006]

Quote:

Pretty sure if you buy new now, you'll get the V2. No idea about a V3... The V2 was only launched last week!

And in any case, I think it's more like Beta/Pre-Production vs Production, rather than V1/V2.

I'm not a guru. This is as I remember it.
 
Yep. The 'beta' version was the version used as a testing ground. The E12, remember, didn't officially launch until a few weeks ago. The first ones sent out were the pre production units.
 
The V2 consumer bass model version is thus the final design to make full world wide release.
 
But none the less, its still easier to say V1 and V2.
 
A V3 has never ever been mentioned as something being done.

 

[ghostchili]

Quote:

I'm not a guru. This is as I remember it.
 
Yep. The 'beta' version was the version used as a testing ground. The E12, remember, didn't officially launch until a few weeks ago. The first ones sent out were the pre production units.
 
The V2 consumer bass model version is thus the final design to make full world wide release.
 
But none the less, its still easier to say V1 and V2.
 
A V3 has never ever been mentioned as something being done.

That makes sense, thanks for the explanation

 

[Change is Good]

I'm expecting my E12 to be delivered tomorrow along with an HRT MSII DAC for my laptop. I can't wait to see how this setup pairs with my Q701!

 

[jacknight]

anyone got the new bass version already? waiting for comparison between the new and old bass boost version