[FiiO M11] Android 7.0, 2.5/3.5/4.4 Powerful Output, Exynos 7872, Dual AK4493 DAC chips, 3GB RAM, WiFi, Two-way LDAC
May 7, 2019 at 2:36 AM Post #1,066 of 9,270
Yea I do agree the M11 can be compared to a decent smartphone in that regard of screen quality, responsiveness etc. The other features like streaming are a plus to me (doesn't work as well on my Cayin).

Which comparison is that? Any link?
Yes check our the DX220 interface here:

The reviewer can be quite painful but he speaks plainly and you can follow what he’s doing. Apart from the parametric EQ (which doesn’t work that well in his demo), I’ve already got the M11 looking and working better and faster. I’m sure the DX220 must have some sound advantages for the price, although the reviewer admits the reference tuning (i.e. the flat and clinical sound of the Sabre dacs) is not to his liking (and in my experience not to mine either). If not for a big jump in SQ I see no conceivable reason why anyone would buy the DX220 over the M11 at twice the price, and especially considering the biggest SQ difference at this level is more about the transducer than the source.
 
May 7, 2019 at 2:53 AM Post #1,067 of 9,270
Yes check our the DX220 interface here:

The reviewer can be quite painful but he speaks plainly and you can follow what he’s doing. Apart from the parametric EQ (which doesn’t work that well in his demo), I’ve already got the M11 looking and working better and faster. I’m sure the DX220 must have some sound advantages for the price, although the reviewer admits the reference tuning (i.e. the flat and clinical sound of the Sabre dacs) is not to his liking (and in my experience not to mine either). If not for a big jump in SQ I see no conceivable reason why anyone would buy the DX220 over the M11 at twice the price, and especially considering the biggest SQ difference at this level is more about the transducer than the source.

Ah.. BGGR. Haven't gotten to watch that video. But I kind trust his reviews, rather spot on and matches my preference as well. Except I don't really agree with his previous recommendations of the dm6, which I thought is rather meh. Kanas Pro is slightly better, but a far cry from the A8.
I'm contemplating whether it's worthwhile for the upgrade to the M11. Haven't had the chance to compare the sound with the cayin
 
May 7, 2019 at 3:11 AM Post #1,068 of 9,270
Ah.. BGGR. Haven't gotten to watch that video. But I kind trust his reviews, rather spot on and matches my preference as well. Except I don't really agree with his previous recommendations of the dm6, which I thought is rather meh. Kanas Pro is slightly better, but a far cry from the A8.
I'm contemplating whether it's worthwhile for the upgrade to the M11. Haven't had the chance to compare the sound with the cayin
Ya not sure about value over the N5ii, other than speed and interface. For me it was a no-brainer upgrade over the M9, which I sold for what I bought them at so didn’t lose anything. If I knew the M11 was coming when I bought the M9 I would have waited, so it’s not so much an upgrade as it is buying what I should have bought in the first place. If I had the N5ii I’m not sure I’d swap, perhaps wait for the next rung up the ladder to see if there’s a jump in audio hardware as well (FiiO M13 or M15, though both will likely be quite a bit more expensive than the M11). Cayin May well have an N5ii upgrade lined up for later this year as well. All depends why you’re considering an upgrade in the first place.
 
May 7, 2019 at 3:30 AM Post #1,069 of 9,270
Yes check our the DX220 interface here:

The reviewer can be quite painful but he speaks plainly and you can follow what he’s doing. Apart from the parametric EQ (which doesn’t work that well in his demo), I’ve already got the M11 looking and working better and faster. I’m sure the DX220 must have some sound advantages for the price, although the reviewer admits the reference tuning (i.e. the flat and clinical sound of the Sabre dacs) is not to his liking (and in my experience not to mine either). If not for a big jump in SQ I see no conceivable reason why anyone would buy the DX220 over the M11 at twice the price, and especially considering the biggest SQ difference at this level is more about the transducer than the source.


As someone who ordered the DX220, simple: the availability of amp cards that can provide significantly more power where desired. And a lively firmware scene and responsive tech support re: updates, having moved all their players to Android Oreo didn’t hurt either.

Then again, as long as I can select the album I want to play and twiddle the volume control I’m pretty much good to go, so I may not entirely reflect the omptimal target audience for the M11...
 
May 7, 2019 at 3:41 AM Post #1,070 of 9,270
As someone who ordered the DX220, simple: the availability of amp cards that can provide significantly more power where desired. And a lively firmware scene and responsive tech support re: updates, having moved all their players to Android Oreo didn’t hurt either.

Then again, as long as I can select the album I want to play and twiddle the volume control I’m pretty much good to go, so I may not entirely reflect the omptimal target audience for the M11...
Yes, that makes perfect sense. Modular amp modules are a definite plus if I wanted to run current and future desktop-grade headphones from my dap. As it stands the M11 seems to power the HD800 and Auteur pretty well - within spitting distance of my desktop amp/dac in fact - so I'm good. And yes, having gone to an Android dap I seem to be using it for more than just music now - YouTube, Netflix, Plex, Chrome... so if you just want to load an album with maybe a few tweaks to the sound, the M11 is probably overkill UI/features-wise.
 
May 7, 2019 at 3:58 AM Post #1,071 of 9,270
Ya not sure about value over the N5ii, other than speed and interface. For me it was a no-brainer upgrade over the M9, which I sold for what I bought them at so didn’t lose anything. If I knew the M11 was coming when I bought the M9 I would have waited, so it’s not so much an upgrade as it is buying what I should have bought in the first place. If I had the N5ii I’m not sure I’d swap, perhaps wait for the next rung up the ladder to see if there’s a jump in audio hardware as well (FiiO M13 or M15, though both will likely be quite a bit more expensive than the M11). Cayin May well have an N5ii upgrade lined up for later this year as well. All depends why you’re considering an upgrade in the first place.
The speed and responsiveness are definitely pluses, which are equally tempting, so it's just an internal struggle whether to cave in and get it. The only pros I have with the Cayin is the slow boot up and pretty much unusable streaming (still kinda laggy that I am not compelled to use it). Otherwise sound wise it's better than the fiio x5iii and opus #1 that I have previously.
And speaking of sound if not for its quirks the zishan dsd is fantastic.
 
May 7, 2019 at 5:11 AM Post #1,072 of 9,270
I loaded Poweramp last week and today did some A/B testing with the FiiO music app. I really like some of the features of Poweramp; particularly the Album Artist view and the ability to create on-the-fly playlists to which you can add tracks.

However, I was really disappointed in the Poweramp SQ compared to the FiiO app listening to the same track. To begin with, the volume in Poweramp was a lot lower; eventually I discovered that I have to disable the Direct Volume control in Poweramp settings, which is enabled by default. Even after doing that, though, the Poweramp sound lacks body and breadth compared to the FiiO app. It's like listening to a good track in the Music app on my iPhone. Perfectly fine, but it suffers by comparison. I'm comparing standard to standard: no EQ set, etc. I could probably tweak Poweramp to give me something closer to the FiiO app but I am not sure it is worth the effort.

Having said all that, I really hope that FiiO will add some functionality to their app. I can live without the album artist view, but it is really nice to be listening to a track while looking through the library and adding tracks to hear next!
Ok so I’ve done more testing this morning, proper critical A/B listening with multiple songs, and not just with Poweramp and FiiO Music but also with Audirvana and my desktop amp/dac, and not only with the FH5 but also HD800 and Auteur.

As it turns out there are several variables at play here, but the bottom line is this: there is little if any SQ differences between Poweramp and FiiO Music, once set up properly (no EQ).

To be sure, I used the HD800 as a baseline reference, because if any headphone will pick out the smallest SQ differences from a source, that would be it. I suspect Poweramp might be a hair warmer than FiiO in its default configuration, which makes music played through FiiO initially sound ever so slightly ‘clearer’, but this quickly dissipates the more you listen. It also has a lot to do with the actual song and recording quality, because slight imperfections in the recordings at certain FR might be easier to pick up with Poweramp than FiiO. This could be placebo or imagined, because on some takes it’s there and others not.

I used enough tracks and went back and forth enough times to pretty much exclude any obviously noticeable differences between Poweramp and FiiO. More impressively, the SQ difference between the M11 and my desktop setup is really not massive, certainly not as much as you’d think there’d be between a $1200 8W fully balanced R2R amp/dac and a $450 550mW dap! Of course the desktop is more refined and resolving, but only if you’re really listening for the details. That’s not a criticism of the desktop setup, which I love (it’s my endgame in fact) but rather an endorsement of the M11 and what it can do. Midrange my a** :p

Things get more complex with IEMs. I find the smallest changes, tips, insertion depth - all make much bigger differences to the sound than with full size headphones. The slight harshness/thinness I was picking up from the FH5 and the M11 - compared to what I remember with the M9 - has almost been completely reversed just by switching tips from Spiral Dots to Dekoni Bulletz. Almost immediately the sound was fuller, a touch warmer, and the sub bass was back in a big way. Perhaps the more neutral tuning of the M11 and the brighter profile of the Spiral Dots are too much of a good thing, and could also explain the differences I was hearing between Poweramp and FiiO.

It’s probably too soon to say for sure, but now that I’ve switched tips, I’m back to being completely satisfied with the FH5/M11/Poweramp combo, and have even disabled RE EQ for now as I don’t feel I need it to tame the slight harshness I was hearing in the upper mids with the FH5.

Hope this all helps someone somewhere.

PS. We’re on 72 pages and already dissecting specific SQ details and apps on a product that’s not even officially available in the West yet! I have a feeling the M11 is going to do big things once it’s widely available...
 
May 7, 2019 at 5:19 AM Post #1,073 of 9,270
Ok so I’ve done more testing this morning, proper critical A/B listening with multiple songs, and not just with Poweramp and FiiO Music but also with Audirvana and my desktop amp/dac, and not only with the FH5 but also HD800 and Auteur.

As it turns out there are several variables at play here, but the bottom line is this: there is little if any SQ differences between Poweramp and FiiO Music, once set up properly (no EQ).

To be sure, I used the HD800 as a baseline reference, because if any headphone will pick out the smallest SQ differences from a source, that would be it. I suspect Poweramp might be a hair warmer than FiiO in its default configuration, which makes music played through FiiO initially sound ever so slightly ‘clearer’, but this quickly dissipates the more you listen. It also has a lot to do with the actual song and recording quality, because slight imperfections in the recordings at certain FR might be easier to pick up with Poweramp than FiiO. This could be placebo or imagined, because on some takes it’s there and others not.

I used enough tracks and went back and forth enough times to pretty much exclude any obviously noticeable differences between Poweramp and FiiO. More impressively, the SQ difference between the M11 and my desktop setup is really not massive, certainly not as much as you’d think there’d be between a $1200 8W fully balanced R2R amp/dac and a $450 550mW dap! Of course the desktop is more refined and resolving, but only if you’re really listening for the details. That’s not a criticism of the desktop setup, which I love (it’s my endgame in fact) but rather an endorsement of the M11 and what it can do. Midrange my a** :p

Things get more complex with IEMs. I find the smallest changes, tips, insertion depth - all make much bigger differences to the sound than with full size headphones. The slight harshness/thinness I was picking up from the FH5 and the M11 - compared to what I remember with the M9 - has almost been completely reversed just by switching tips from Spiral Dots to Dekoni Bulletz. Almost immediately the sound was fuller, a touch warmer, and the sub bass was back in a big way. Perhaps the more neutral tuning of the M11 and the brighter profile of the Spiral Dots are too much of a good thing, and could also explain the differences I was hearing between Poweramp and FiiO.

It’s probably too soon to say for sure, but now that I’ve switched tips, I’m back to being completely satisfied with the FH5/M11/Poweramp combo, and have even disabled RE EQ for now as I don’t feel I need it to tame the slight harshness I was hearing in the upper mids with the FH5.

Hope this all helps someone somewhere.

PS. We’re on 72 pages and already dissecting specific SQ details and apps on a product that’s not even officially available in the West yet! I have a feeling the M11 is going to do big things once it’s widely available...

Yes! A proper testing. Nice. Still haven't got the M11 in my hands, and I dont have the FH5 but I wonder if one of my IEMs has the same "problem" with the upper mids. I just took them out of a drawer this morning because you talked about hiss or noticing it specially on old / bad recordings. Which was your approach with the EQ? I was never satisfied tuning the sound to remove the hissing as somehow I'd lower the detailing. Also, is RE EQ worth it? I've seen really good reviews.
 
May 7, 2019 at 5:31 AM Post #1,074 of 9,270
Yes! A proper testing. Nice. Still haven't got the M11 in my hands, and I dont have the FH5 but I wonder if one of my IEMs has the same "problem" with the upper mids. I just took them out of a drawer this morning because you talked about hiss or noticing it specially on old / bad recordings. Which was your approach with the EQ? I was never satisfied tuning the sound to remove the hissing as somehow I'd lower the detailing. Also, is RE EQ worth it? I've seen really good reviews.
I’m no EQ expert that’s for sure, but I found playing around with lowering the 2-4khz bars seemed to have the most effect. I prefer gentle EQ and only reducing as opposed to increasing output. If there are serious problems that require more aggressive EQ, I’d rather find a different headphone or IEM without those ‘problems’. I think there’s a trial version of RE EQ you can try from the Aurora store, or you can just *cough* find an apk that works using any search engine. At least try it to see if it makes a difference. It’s quite involved so I’d have to learn how to use it properly - I’ve only gone as far as picking the ‘smooth’ preset, and that seems to sound quite good using any of the apps on M11. That said, if the warmth and smoothness I’m now getting from switching tips extends to Netflix and Plex and Tidal, I’ll probably disable RE EQ for the time being, as I’d really prefer not to need EQ at all if I can help it. Hope this helps...
 
May 7, 2019 at 5:47 AM Post #1,075 of 9,270
I’m no EQ expert that’s for sure, but I found playing around with lowering the 2-4khz bars seemed to have the most effect. I prefer gentle EQ and only reducing as opposed to increasing output. If there are serious problems that require more aggressive EQ, I’d rather find a different headphone or IEM without those ‘problems’. I think there’s a trial version of RE EQ you can try from the Aurora store, or you can just *cough* find an apk that works using any search engine. At least try it to see if it makes a difference. It’s quite involved so I’d have to learn how to use it properly - I’ve only gone as far as picking the ‘smooth’ preset, and that seems to sound quite good using any of the apps on M11. That said, if the warmth and smoothness I’m now getting from switching tips extends to Netflix and Plex and Tidal, I’ll probably disable RE EQ for the time being, as I’d really prefer not to need EQ at all if I can help it. Hope this helps...

Totally helps hehe. I'll give RE EQ a chance. And will try to adjust the 2-4kHz bands. I also tend to reduce when EQing (don't use to) and increase the volume instead to avoid any distortion problems. Thanks a lot!
 
May 7, 2019 at 6:50 AM Post #1,076 of 9,270
There is a sound quality difference but it’s more about tuning than anything else. Better IEMs or headphones will show up the differences more clearly. But the biggest ‘upgrade’ Is user experience, speed, screen size and quality, storage, proper dual band Wi-Fi, ability to use almost Android apps, multitasking, DSD upsampling, DSD256 support... if none of this is worth the extra $150 over the M9 then save your money. For me the M11 is the best looking, best featured dap for anything near $500. By way if comparison I was watching a DX220 video review yesterday and the M11 matches or beats it in most areas, and that’s a $1000 ‘flagship’ dap.

For me it would be $230.00 more over my M7. Without the need for wifi or the desire for streaming the M11 is overkill for me. For a minimalist DAP like the M7 the low power Exynos 7270 chip is more than adequate. I think if you want streaming from the M6/M9 and additional apps the chip just doesn't cut it. If they were important to me then I would have to splurge and get the M11. I feel the M11 screen is just to big to make it portable and I don't want to carry another smartphone size device around even if I could afford it.
 
May 7, 2019 at 6:52 AM Post #1,077 of 9,270
Ok so I’ve done more testing this morning, proper critical A/B listening with multiple songs, and not just with Poweramp and FiiO Music but also with Audirvana and my desktop amp/dac, and not only with the FH5 but also HD800 and Auteur.

As it turns out there are several variables at play here, but the bottom line is this: there is little if any SQ differences between Poweramp and FiiO Music, once set up properly (no EQ).
Thanks for the additional checking. I’ll go back and make sure I don’t have any EQ set in the FiiO app. But to me, no audiophile for sure, the difference was pretty clear through my Shure 846. But I want you to be right so I can take advantage of the wider feature set in Poweramp.

Is it possible that the native FiiO app is tuned in some way to take specific advantage of the M11 hardware?
 
May 7, 2019 at 7:02 AM Post #1,078 of 9,270
Thanks for the additional checking. I’ll go back and make sure I don’t have any EQ set in the FiiO app. But to me, no audiophile for sure, the difference was pretty clear through my Shure 846. But I want you to be right so I can take advantage of the wider feature set in Poweramp.

Is it possible that the native FiiO app is tuned in some way to take specific advantage of the M11 hardware?
That’s a very good question. You’d have to ask @JamesFiiO. Would be helpful when you went back to check to come back and tell us which songs you tried with, which sections of those songs and what you were hearing. Make some notes and share them here so others can reproduce them and check for themselves. Also let us know the file types (flac/MP3 etc).
 
May 7, 2019 at 7:04 AM Post #1,079 of 9,270
Thanks for the additional checking. I’ll go back and make sure I don’t have any EQ set in the FiiO app. But to me, no audiophile for sure, the difference was pretty clear through my Shure 846. But I want you to be right so I can take advantage of the wider feature set in Poweramp.

Is it possible that the native FiiO app is tuned in some way to take specific advantage of the M11 hardware?

I don't think so. Well, it could have some special EQ, but every other app should take advantage of the audio chips, specially apps such as Poweramp, Neutron, etc. I mean those apps should get you the same quality as the official FiiO app, although the EQ tuning could differ.
 
May 7, 2019 at 7:05 AM Post #1,080 of 9,270
For me it would be $230.00 more over my M7. Without the need for wifi or the desire for streaming the M11 is overkill for me. For a minimalist DAP like the M7 the low power Exynos 7270 chip is more than adequate. I think if you want streaming from the M6/M9 and additional apps the chip just doesn't cut it. If they were important to me then I would have to splurge and get the M11. I feel the M11 screen is just to big to make it portable and I don't want to carry another smartphone size device around even if I could afford it.
Good point, a big powerful dap is not for everyone. One day we’ll have daps the size of the M7 with the power of the M11. Until the ...
 

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