[jmills8]

Still waiting on a DMP-Z1 vs M11 review.

Z1 has a very different sound. Its very warm sounding compared to : 11 , sp1000 , N8 , Paw Gold, dx200 , 220. The z1 leans towards the X5III, imagine that.

 

[abitdeef]

I can't agree with you here, so thank you for writing a detailed answer and allowing me to explain my point of view, I suppose it'll be useful (at least if I'll manage to do that with a limited level of English )


Sidenote: English version of the review is a translation of the Russian one, and the Russian version is based on my experience with the local community.
So, actually, I'd be happy to not compare SR15 and R6Pro with M11, as for me (it's a bit subjective, but audio is totally individual anyway, the main thing IMHO is to distinguish "I don't like" and "it's bad") both SR15 and R6Pro aren't neutral DAPs, and it's not much sense in comparing colored DAPs with neutral ones. Of course, one can compare anything, but you know, if I want A&K signature coloration, I'll go for SR15, if I want a bit warmer signature, then R6Pro is my choice. But in general I think it's more logical to get neutral DAP and "tweak" sound with headphones, but that's an offtopic.
Anyway, if I'd skip comparisons with SR15 and R6Pro, I'll be asked about them (SR15 is widespread, and R6Pro recently appeared at local distributors, so interest is high), so I've included them in comparisons.

Moving back to M11 vs. DX220. First of all, let's make it clear. I didn't say "it's better because it's more expensive," it's taken out of context. There is a rhetorical method called "straw man" when you attributing to your opponent a stupid point of view and then refute it. That's what was used in this case.
Believe it or not, I'm not an idiot nor biassed in any aspect. Moreover, I'm a huge, huge, huge FiiO fan, so I would be more than happy to say that M11 beats DX220, but unfortunately, it's not happened. DX220 is better, especially on the treble, but not limited to that. But it doesn't make M11 worse, and it's a great, superb, outstanding DAP. And if we took price/ratio as a criterion, M11 will win, because of the price (I'm speaking about sound only, about UX I'll write a bit later). It's similar to SP1000, it's a winner in absolute comparison, but it will lose in price/quality.
Once again, DX220 sounds better, but it's not a huge difference or deal breaker for those who want to get M11.
Moreover, it's only my opinion, and I think everyone has a right to have an opinion. I often not agree with other views, but attacking an opponent for his opinion, it's a chap deed. I'm not speaking about a constructive discussion politely.
As for money mentioned, I meant that for me it's not surprising that DX220 sounds better, as it cost two times more, and that allowed iBasso to implement advanced schematic solutions that gave a better sound. From another point of view, I take off my hat to the FiiO engineers, as they've worked for a tighter budget and still managed to achieve great results. Did I praise M11 well enough?

That's pretty much it; I suppose my explanation will allow seeing the whole picture.


I agree with you. But I can't say that "I can't hear any difference between these two DAPs" or "difference is dismissively small," as it's not what I hear
At the same time, once again I must say that difference isn't huge, of course. But my task as a reviewer is to share my experience, and not convince the audience towards one or another decision. At least that's what I'm trying to do. And I think that reviews like "go, get this one" or "that's the true king" aren't honest (but that's my subjective preference)


Well, I think I can do that Because in the above review I've written that M11 is the fastest Android DAP I've tested. I think it's enough for the reader to make conclusions, and if I'd write "M11 is faster and more fluid" in every single DAP comparison, it would make comparisons bloated.
So I didn't say "disregard the difference," I meant that "I'll ignore that and won't write it once again."


Thank you for raising this question. That fact is, actually taken for granted, as it's pretty apparent Maybe it's not evident for a novice in audio, but repeating basic facts in every single review won't make it better I think.
Like you know, in wine reviews I'm reading sometimes rarely mentioned that wine should be served at the correct temperature, as it's considered distinct (but it wasn't so for me at the beginning )
So, I'm thinking about some "basic facts" cheat sheet, but not sure if I'll find a proper format for that.

Exactly. what does better in treble mean? How can you qualify that statement? The m11 certainly isn't treble shy or rolled off and it has all the audio cues needed to portray cymbals and such accurately.

In fact with my gear I thought the treble on the m11 sounded livelier than dx220, and what does more emotional mids mean?

Is there specific points in a song I could notice these differences? I thought the mids sounded a bit more lush on the m11 myself.

Anyways these are just common review problems of trying to objectify something very subjective. And honestly I enjoyed the review. Me personally I kind of like reviews that have lots of pictures like expat in Japan's because I know that ultimately my own ears have to decide.

Now I do like when hbb does his- this sounds like this thing on this certain part of a song. It's something I can wrap my head easily around and I'm very familiar with the stuff he uses, in fact I've been using it myself for a long time. (Pink Floyd) on the run. it's stuff you can try with your daps and be like yes that sounds pretty much identical between dap a & b.

I am surprised that none of the reviewers talk about the comfort of holding the M11. I ended up ordering the leatherette cover because of the sharp corner of this dap and awkwardness holding it in one hand. Hopefully the cover fixes this issue.

Also is there a way to adjust the color temperature of the screen? To me its too much of a cool white (too much blue added).

Be thankful it's not an AK, ouch! I'm eyeing a leather case myself, and another screen protector- Fiio!!!!!

 

[abitdeef]

Z1 has a very different sound. Its very warm sounding compared to : 11 , sp1000 , N8 , Paw Gold, dx200 , 220. The z1 leans towards the X5III, imagine that.

It's heavy too, you should buy at least 2 of them incase you drop one

 

[cleg]

At the very least, don’t assume that readers know this is just your opinion

thank you for the discussion, I think we've understood each other's points of view, I'll re-read your answer and I'll think what I can improve as I'm 90% agree with you
the only place where I can disagree is the quoted part. I think that it's a part of "common sense" understanding that every single review is subjective (unless we're speaking about fast like "it's green" or "it's weight is 250 grams"), so no need to highlight the obvious fact
at the end, my opinion is as subjective as any other

 

[abitdeef]

Z1 has a very different sound. Its very warm sounding compared to : 11 , sp1000 , N8 , Paw Gold, dx200 , 220. The z1 leans towards the X5III, imagine that.

M11 vs Cayin n6ii? I can't be thinking about the m6ii- the banks closed

 

[zeroselect]

It's heavy too, you should buy at least 2 of them incase you drop one

VanNuys already solved that problem.

 

[jmills8]

VanNuys already solved that problem.

I carried it, it felt like 6 Hugos. Theres two versions of that sony.

 

[cleg]

Exactly. what does better in treble mean? How can you qualify that statement?

first of all, it's layering, e.g. ability to separate overtones of timbre-reach instruments, that's where I hear the most difference, take some proper record of timbre-rich instruments (like "Jazz at the Pawnshop") and do a comparison, using neutral top-level headphones, difference will be noticeable
I'm using few records made on concerts I've visited to test for naturalness in sound, but even without that usually difference is noticeable, when you know the real sound of particular instruments

The m11 certainly isn't treble shy or rolled off and it has all the audio cues needed to portray cymbals and such accurately.

I didn't say it's rolled off, or shy or something like that. Actually, intense cymbals aren't perfect treble test, because cymbals are pretty intensive and often lose small nuances, so they're ok for testing resolution, control, attack and amount, not layering and decay

In fact with my gear I thought the treble on the m11 sounded livelier than dx220

I won't argue with you, because it's a matter of preferences. we listen to the gear, we make selections. saying "no, you hear it wrong" is the silliest thing in the world. unless you just want to get some hype, using TV preacher approach "come to me, and I'll tell you the truth"

and what does more emotional mids mean?

well, it means… emotional better representing existing emotions

Is there specific points in a song I could notice these differences?

sure, just take two versions of Beethoven Symphonie Nr.5, Von Karajan's one and Carlos Kleiber's. they are pretty different in manner, for me Karajan sound less emotional, it's "ordnung und sauberkeit" approach to music, while Kleiber is more emotional, and it's noticeable comparing their works. with DX220 this difference is more noticeable

it's stuff you can try with your daps and be like yes that sounds pretty much identical between dap a & b.

I'm doing that, but what difference you can spot on 2Pac or AC/DC records? I don't I do not underestimate their merits, and I like them (actually, AC/DC much more), but for critical listening, I use test CDs that have material I'm familiar with and that is properly recorded, mixed and mastered

I'm giving a few tracks as examples in each review, but it's more a way to tell about music that I like and to give readers perception of gear's manner. but it's a really rough estimation

 

[gLer]

I'm doing that, but what difference you can spot on 2Pac or AC/DC records? I don't I do not underestimate their merits, and I like them (actually, AC/DC much more), but for critical listening, I use test CDs that have material I'm familiar with and that is properly recorded, mixed and mastered

I won’t argue for or against here, but I’ll agree that music choice makes a MASSIVE difference to how you’ll hear something. If your playlist comprises mostly pop, electronica, hip-hop and rap, you’re likely to assess a dap (or headphones or IEMs) very differently to someone like you who’s educated in classical and jazz and prefers sound signatures that benefit these genres. Also, you have to know that many people don’t care about ‘layered and extended treble’, and if that’s the case, they might completely exclude that from their decision criteria.

I do get what you’re saying though. I personally look for impact and rumble in the sub-bass and a lack of midbass bloom is important too. If I’m not hearing that, I’m likely to prefer something less (in fact it’s why I prefer a $250 IEM like the FH5 to the $1,100 Andromeda for most of the music I listen to, for example).

As for ascribing emotions to frequencies, that’s purely based on musical preference. Some prefer forward vocals, others prefer forward instruments, others prefer more treble. It’s all ok. I’m not quite sure how a dap can have more ‘emotional mids’ though I can see how tuning and pairing with specific headphones can render mids differently with the music you listen to, and also vary from dap to dap.

Not sure you can get this across without going into specifics though (song name/timecode/IEM/headphone/dap settings etc.).

 

[abitdeef]

first of all, it's layering, e.g. ability to separate overtones of timbre-reach instruments, that's where I hear the most difference, take some proper record of timbre-rich instruments (like "Jazz at the Pawnshop") and do a comparison, using neutral top-level headphones, difference will be noticeable
I'm using few records made on concerts I've visited to test for naturalness in sound, but even without that usually difference is noticeable, when you know the real sound of particular instruments


I didn't say it's rolled off, or shy or something like that. Actually, intense cymbals aren't perfect treble test, because cymbals are pretty intensive and often lose small nuances, so they're ok for testing resolution, control, attack and amount, not layering and decay


I won't argue with you, because it's a matter of preferences. we listen to the gear, we make selections. saying "no, you hear it wrong" is the silliest thing in the world. unless you just want to get some hype, using TV preacher approach "come to me, and I'll tell you the truth"


well, it means… emotional better representing existing emotions


sure, just take two versions of Beethoven Symphonie Nr.5, Von Karajan's one and Carlos Kleiber's. they are pretty different in manner, for me Karajan sound less emotional, it's "ordnung und sauberkeit" approach to music, while Kleiber is more emotional, and it's noticeable comparing their works. with DX220 this difference is more noticeable


I'm doing that, but what difference you can spot on 2Pac or AC/DC records? I don't I do not underestimate their merits, and I like them (actually, AC/DC much more), but for critical listening, I use test CDs that have material I'm familiar with and that is properly recorded, mixed and mastered

I'm giving a few tracks as examples in each review, but it's more a way to tell about music that I like and to give readers perception of gear's manner. but it's a really rough estimation

Yes it's all subjective and honestly I don't have dx220 anymore, so I can't do any more comparisons. But I am a musician and I know what cymbals sound like- close up and the m11 does them realistically. As far as layering, I still don't really even know what that entails. So It's meaningless to me.

I mean I can in a soundstage yes, but to pick out all the harmonics out of a single instrument well lol I'll take your word for it.

 

[zeroselect]

I carried it, it felt like 6 Hugos. Theres two versions of that sony.

Got it!

So use the DMP-Z1 as a blunt force trauma weapon while use the M11s sharp corners to cut them.

 

[Jujoe]

Got it!

So use the DMP-Z1 as a blunt force trauma weapon while use the M11s sharp corners to cut them.

Special forces Audio to the rescue.

Juj

 

[abitdeef]

VanNuys already solved that problem.

Taking it through airport security- it's my Walkman really! Sir step aside. Seriously this things the bomb! .... oh damn.

 

[zeroselect]

Taking it through airport security- it's my Walkman really! Sir step aside. Seriously this things the bomb! .... oh damn.

Mike at HIFI Insider says its all good.

 

[zeroselect]

Ok back to my question. Does anyone know a way to adjust the color temperature for the screen?