[niglu93]

what is an odac?

 

[IEMCrazy]

Quote:

I'm using the HD 800 with fiio e17
and it has enough power to drive them.

 

 
HD800 doesn't demand a lot of power mind you, but it demands a level of finesse that needs a lot more speedy an amp that's associated with raw power....
 
Quote:

Would I be able to use the E17 and E09 combo for my iPhone too?

 
You could use an LOD to either the E17 or E9, but you can't use an external DAC with an iPhone without something like the Pure I-20 to an S/PDIF capable DAC...only the handful of devices that uses the Apple chip for decoding the proprietary USB interface.  You can't just plug into a regular USB DAC, it's not true USB.
 
Quote:

The e17 will drive them but not well. I just listened to it on high gain and it was just okay. It got a lot better with an e09+odac...much better. And then there is another level with amps in the Schitt series as well as others. 

+1

 

[frix]

so what exactly does a "speedy" amp do technically different?

 

[niglu93]

What is the odac he is talking about?

 

[MattTCG]

The odac is recently developed by the one who must not be mentioned. They are sold here: 
 
http://www.jdslabs.com/item.php?fetchitem=46
 
If we're not supposed to link products, mods can delete. 
 
Joe at Audio Poutine sells one that I like better cleaner design and I like the inputs better.
 
The odac cost about $150 but sound like it cost at least twice that.
 
 

 
 
I know it look nice...just don't be hatin' 

 

[SONIC BOOM]

Quote:

so what exactly does a "speedy" amp do technically different?

make it sound like hd800s, the hd800 paired with a e17 sounds like a pair of hd600s without the low end punch.

 

[IEMCrazy]

Quote:

so what exactly does a "speedy" amp do technically different?

Technically speaking (but simplified) it basically stops and starts the flow of power faster, more precisely, swings between high and low voltage/current more rapidly, thus making for much cleaner and detaled sound delivery without slurring, smearing, bleeding, coloring, or just not responding fast enough.  Basically keeps up with the driver's abilities much more similarly. 
 
It's not a power hungry can, but it's a performance hungry can.  Possibly the most performance hungry non-electrostat.  Easier to drive than HE-6...but that's not saying a lot.

 

[Lord Voldemort]

Quote:

I suspect the E17 would sound better than an E11, though I have not personally heard the E17, that is the impression I've seen from others.  If that is the case, the E11 powers the HD650 somewhat OK.  In fact, I even preferred the sound of the E11 to the sound of my $350 Headroom Micro (desktop, old model) for HD650.  The old Micro happened to create a congested midrange that the E11 did not.   However when compared to an amplifier that is an even better match such as the Schiit Lyr or (much to my surprise) the headphone out of my Marantz integrated amp, HD650 jumps to a new level.
 
So I would say you'll probably get it to work, and it'll probably even sound fairly good.  But just know that the HD650s are still capable of far more than that, and don't wrongly accuse the HD650 of being the limiting factor as I once did.  They are not

 
If you don't mind a very analytical sound, you may wish to look into the JDS built Objective 2.   The level of analytical presentation was, to me almost brutally sterile with HD650, but some folks prefer that kind of sound.  You can also get an O2+ODAC for a little more than your budget if you need the DAC too.  The ODAC supposedly warms up the O2 a little, and is certainly going to be better than straight laptop output.

I don't really understand how an amp/ dac can sound 'analytical'. The O2/ ODAC does what an amp/dac is supposed to - nothing more, nothing less - with a level of refinement (in terms of noise, or lack thereof). Under a double blind test, I doubt you'd get impressions ranging from "analytical" to "congested midrange". 
 
Based on measurement alone, something like the E17 is efficient in putting out enough voltage for the HD650. The main reason to get any amp for high impedance headphones is if one's amp is unable to drive music to large volumes. Sound quality comes second, and simply does not justify spending hundreds of dollars in hopes of improving the sound, which is limited at best. That same cash could go into a higher end headphone, and the sound quality - for good or worse- will actually be audible enough to survive a blind test easily. 
 
And I am getting sick of phrases such as "better match" or "good combo". Amp and headphone pairing is subjective on so many levels... what is "better" or "good"? What's considered an "improvement"? Such words aren't universally understood or perceived. What seems like an improvement may be a detriment to the ears of another. And that's assuming IF these differences are there, and often they are not: they're simply the outcome of psychological bias. If we expect to hear greater treble presence in the somewhat rolled-off-treble of the HD650, we'll hear it. 
 
We need more myth busters on these boards. 

 

[MattTCG]

Quote:

I don't really understand how an amp/ dac can sound 'analytical'. The O2/ ODAC does what an amp/dac is supposed to - nothing more, nothing less - with a level of refinement (in terms of noise, or lack thereof). Under a double blind test, I doubt you'd get impressions ranging from "analytical" to "congested midrange". 
 
Based on measurement alone, something like the E17 is efficient in putting out enough voltage for the HD650. The main reason to get any amp for high impedance headphones is if one's amp is unable to drive music to large volumes. Sound quality comes second, and simply does not justify spending hundreds of dollars in hopes of improving the sound, which is limited at best. That same cash could go into a higher end headphone, and the sound quality - for good or worse- will actually be audible enough to survive a blind test easily. 
 
And I am getting sick of phrases such as "better match" or "good combo". Amp and headphone pairing is subjective on so many levels... what is "better" or "good"? What's considered an "improvement"? Such words aren't universally understood or perceived. What seems like an improvement may be a detriment to the ears of another. And that's assuming IF these differences are there, and often they are not: they're simply the outcome of psychological bias. If we expect to hear greater treble presence in the somewhat rolled-off-treble of the HD650, we'll hear it. 
 
We need more myth busters on these boards. 

 
So what is your point really. If you don't want to discuss "better match" or "improvement" then you may have come to the wrong place tbh. I think that the o2/odac combo leaves a lot to be desired with the headphones I own and the material I enjoy listening to. But pair an Asgard or even an e09k with the same odac and my enjoyment goes way up. Every statement that I make on this forum, and about anyone else here for that matter, has the implication of this is what I hear before and after it. 

 

[SONIC BOOM]

Quote:

Technically speaking (but simplified) it basically stops and starts the flow of power faster, more precisely, swings between high and low voltage/current more rapidly, thus making for much cleaner and detaled sound delivery without slurring, smearing, bleeding, coloring, or just not responding fast enough.  Basically keeps up with the driver's abilities much more similarly. 
 
It's not a power hungry can, but it's a performance hungry can.  Possibly the most performance hungry non-electrostat.  Easier to drive than HE-6...but that's not saying a lot.

+1 Thanks for typing what I was too lazy to do.

 

[SONIC BOOM]

Quote:

 
So what is your point really. If you don't want to discuss "better match" or "improvement" then you may have come to the wrong place tbh. I think that the o2/odac combo leaves a lot to be desired with the headphones I own and the material I enjoy listening to. But pair an Asgard or even an e09k with the same odac and my enjoyment goes way up. Every statement that I make on this forum, and about anyone else here for that matter, has the implication of this is what I hear before and after it. 

correct me if i'm wrong but are you basically saying that the o2/odac combo sounds boring? because that's what I think, I would take a fiio e17/e9 combo any day over it.

 

[MattTCG]

For me, I like some coloration added to the sound signature. So yes, it was boring to me. +2 on the fiio combo. 

 

[Lord Voldemort]

Quote:

 
So what is your point really. If you don't want to discuss "better match" or "improvement" then you may have come to the wrong place tbh. I think that the o2/odac combo leaves a lot to be desired with the headphones I own and the material I enjoy listening to. But pair an Asgard or even an e09k with the same odac and my enjoyment goes way up. Every statement that I make on this forum, and about anyone else here for that matter, has the implication of this is what I hear before and after it. 

All my points were there; you are simply ignoring or not understanding them. There is nothing wrong about making something better. The question here is whether relying on others' impressions of what's better has any worth, for the reasons I discussed above: the subjective issue of "better" and psychological bias.
 
Nothing wrong with sharing one's impressions of course. However, it's often done in a way that conveys to consumers that an impression is absolute. I'm not asking everyone to put "in my opinion" but clearly, some people forget (or do not realize) that their opinions have no objectivity to back it up. If a consumer is dissatisfied with a HD650, you shouldn't be telling him/her that a $300 amp isn't good enough but rather recommend a new headphone. Many on this forum have absolutely no regard for others' money, and carelessly mislead them to spend more than they have to. 
 
I "enjoy" the music far more when I listen to 320 kbps AAC encoded music, because I feel like I am listening to the best possible lossy format and aren't missing out on anything, but that doesn't mean there is actually a great audible difference between 320 and 128 < x < 320 kbps. 

 

[Chawanwit]

I just tried this and I thought the e11 was better, the e17 sounds underpowered

Heard that some found with amp section of the e11 to be slightly better than the e17. However if you need a dac as well, e17 is both dac/amp but e11 is only amp. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[MattTCG]

You are correct sir!!