[ClieOS]

Hi everyone Finally got my BTR5, the sound is amazing... but! When volume on my phone (iPhone X) is less then 35% i can hear a very strong distortion, music just goes 8 bit Anybody else had this problem? Did not find it in the thread. FW version is 1.0.6

Could very well be that the iPhone digital volume control is eating away too much bit-depth and thus degrading the SQ. The solution is to keep the volume on iPhone very high and just use BTR5 to control the final volume.

 

[HaBo]

It only does if you are going to listen to pure 1kHz sine wave all the time.

As an industry wide practice, headphone sensitivity in spec is always measured with a pure 1kHz sine wave test tone, so if you rely on FiiO app to calculate the dB SPL using the listed spec, it only reflects / estimate dB under a 1kHz tone. On the other hand, music goes from 20Hz to 20kHz with the fact that it is not gong to be a flat frequency response (both on the music as well as on the headphone), so the actual dB SPL will likely be significantly higher than the dB SPL under 1kHz tone, which makes the "estimated dB" pretty much pointless. A closer, more accurate estimation will be based on sensitivity measured using white noise (*which is equal in intensity from 20Hz to 20kHz), except that you can't really find listed spec on those since almost no manufacturer publishes it.

If dB SPL is a concern for you, the best practice is not to rely on some kind of estimation but the practice of listening to your headphone at the lowest volume possible. If that still feel too loud, that means you either need better noise isolating headphone (i.e. IEM), noise cancelling headphone, or perhaps you shouldn't have listened to music in such a noisy environment (if that's the case).

Ok, thanks, I understand. But I know the frequency response of my iem so I can compensate for the 1khz.
Do you know other and cheaper dac or dap that estimate dB level like the BTR5 or is it the only one on the market ?

And, for your information, with my HD600 I have no problem with low level listening (think because it's an open back so I have son reference in ambient noises in the office), but with my IEM, I am too much isolated to know at wich level I am.

 

[ClieOS]

Ok, thanks, I understand. But I know the frequency response of my iem so I can compensate for the 1khz.
Do you know other and cheaper dac or dap that estimate dB level like the BTR5 or is it the only one on the market ?

And, for your information, with my HD600 I have no problem with low level listening (think because it's an open back so I have son reference in ambient noises in the office), but with my IEM, I am too much isolated to know at wich level I am.

I have no idea how you can compensate but all you need to know is the output voltage of any source at a particular level (under a known load, i.e.your headphone), then you can easily calculate the dB SPL. Google 'calculate headphone loudness' and you should find website that offers the calculation tool. However, as said before, it only works if we are talking on condition under pure 1kHz sine wave test tone. In real world situation, the result will not be the actual dB SPL on the headphone.

 

[SyntaxGuy]

I've been searching online for the same question. Anybody here have luck with connecting the btr5 to a PS4? I've connected an es100 without issue, but can't seem to get sound to come out of the btr5. I've tried both USB 1 and 2 settings, and neither work. The display shows 44.1khz as if it's connected, but no sound comes out. Thoughts?

I'm in the same situation but with the Nintendo Switch. It can recognize the es100 and the Fiio btr3 without any problems. But with the Btr5, the Switch simply doesn't recognize the device and plays the audio though it's speakers. As for the Btr5, any USB connection would display as 44.1khz regardless of what device it's connected like a battery bank. My theory is that the Fiio Btr5 has a unique USB communication protocol that only some devices like smartphones and computers can understand and not others like the PS4 and Switch. I wonder if Fiio can emulate the btr3 software onto the Btr5 for better compatibly with more devices?

 

[ClieOS]

..... My theory is that the Fiio Btr5 has a unique USB communication protocol that only some devices like smartphones and computers can understand and not others like the PS4 and Switch. I wonder if Fiio can emulate the btr3 software onto the Btr5 for better compatibly with more devices?

BTR5 doesn't have a unique USB protocol but an advanced USB protocol - XMOS chipset is widely considered the best for USB DAC, specially for anything > 24/96. However, devices such as Nintendo Switch has software limitation that works for USB Audio Class 1 device only - which is why it works for BTR3 / ES100 (which uses CSR8670 for USB controller, and it is USB Audio Class 1) but fail to recognize XMOS. Microsoft Windows, before 8.1 and not that long ago, also has that limitation as well as the build-in USB Audio Class driver Microsoft used is only for Class 1 and not Class 2 (where Mac has Class 2 driver built-in at least a decade earlier). Which is why older Windows need to install driver for anything using XMOS or any USB DAC that needs to play over 24/96. Switch is another example of software limitation because Nintendo doesn't want to implement Class 2 driver - and the OS underneath Switch is actually capable of handling Class 2 driver as it is Android / Linux based. It is less so that FiiO needs to fix the problem but Switch needs to include better driver.

 

[Hooga]

BTR5's built-in EQ does NOT work via the USB connection. This is already very bad. What's even worse, is Fiio's tech support answer and attitude.
When faced with this issue on their support forums they candidly claim that it is "not supported", that they "also have many other devices support USB DAC, but EQ does not work in this usage", and when faced with the blatantly misleading information written on their public web site, they simply say "we did not mention the EQ will support in USB DAC mode".
http://fiio.me/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=44932&extra=page=1
So in short for them at Fiio it's the user's fault not to call them before purchasing anything they advertise and check the exact extent of each single feature they claim on their spec sheets. Simple as that.
This is not just a deplorable attitude, it's by and large irreceivable.
I just wanted to share the above with the community.
On similar technological conditions with their direct competitors, commercially speaking Fiio is not worth customer money - they certainly already received my last cent anyhow, and I will spend some positive time (I have a lot during this quarantine...) dismantling their reputation - as they deserve - whenever I'll have the opportunity.

 

[ClieOS]

@Hooga are you suggesting FiiO is lying about EQ or you just not happy with the customer service? I didn't see evidence of the former though we have covered the issue in this very thread early on and FiiO did confirmed that EQ won't work on USB DAC - though I also mentioned a few times that the EQ on most source will be far better than that built into BTR5, so I don't personally see the point of having it on USB DAC mode.

 

[Hooga]

@ClieOS I am stating they are knowingly, guiltily avoiding to clarify this lack on their official product information, thereby publishing misleading presales information.

The fact that such technical situation was already known, and even discussed on this very forum, much earlier than today is an evident aggravation to my point.

On their website today Fiio is explicitly disclaiming about internal EQ not working via LDAC codec.
That would be the perfect position to also add "... and via USB too".
They don't do that even if - as you justly say - they have been knowing this longtime. How do you call such behaviour ?

The above is not counterbalanced by your (good!) technical advice which if I take it correctly sounds like "that internal EQ is not big loss I tell ya".
It does not work but we wouldn't use it anyway as we can get much better. Fine, we're lucky - this time. What about next time ?
What about if we suddnely discover that a more central feature in another Fiio product is not as advertised?
Will they still feel entitled to respond "we did not mention that" ??
Will they one day arrive at stating "hey pal, dont tell us you're one of those suckers that eats all advertising crap... you did read 200 forum pages on head-fi before purchasing didnt you" ?
That's what is totally irreceivable, and it's a general brand attitude, not a single-product-related issue.
That is what I felt like warning everyone about.

 

[zolom]

After a long while of abandoning my es100, for the btr5, I did return to it. Boy, I did miss that sound signature , especially with a small eq bend around the sub-bass area. My btr5, goes now for a long sleep in the drawer.

Streaming Tidal hifi, via UAPP, using LDAC 660 or 990.
IEMs: se846, fh7.

 

[ClieOS]

@ClieOS I am stating they are knowingly, guiltily avoiding to clarify this lack on their official product information, thereby publishing misleading presales information.
....

I can understand you hold a grudge for FiiO on BTR5 not working 100% the way you wants it to be, but otherwise it seems you were assuming it should have worked the way you wanted it without double checking in the first place. This is a little bit naive on this age of time where review and discussion can be found all over the internet. If it is not specifically advertised, you shouldn't assume it will be so - or at least you should really do a more thorough research next time. Simply came to the forum and asked us about it (or read through older replies as questions about BTR5's EQ have been answered many times) could have easily told you what you need to know.

 

[Hooga]

@ClieOS
What a manufacturer states on its official documents must be true and accurate. What Fiio states is not, and this is a fact. Full stop.
Third parties collecting information about a manufacturer's product, and making them publicly available, is not an "excuse" for the manufacturer to "misbehave" on his official documents.
"I don't care about my manuals and spec sheets, who reads them anyway?" <--- this is not allowed. Not legally, I mean.
On the contrary, third-party collected and published information might happpen to prove that the manufacturer in discussion might not simply "be wrong" in its official statements, but indeed "be in bad faith". Like in this case.

 

[Chris Kaoss]

My opinion on that is to look at other manufacturers as well.

I'm not fighting for any company that hides necessary information, don't get me wrong on that.

Take a look at some AVRs.
Most of the AVRs, in my example Denon, do have 9 amps build in.
The power delivery has to be 210w per channel, they claimed on the data sheet and their website.
With this description most will think that this device has plenty of power to drive most of the speakers very well, while they don't look at the spec of max power consumption, which is 780 watts.
Do a little math and it would be clear that this AVR didn't have 210W at each channel (fully driven).
On the Denon, it is capable to deliver 210w, but only with 1 channel driven. ^^


Same case with your statement about data sheets and the truth behind.


It comes to 1 fact all the time. Double check what has been claimed and what's real.
There're a lot of sources around the web.

I fully agree with your thoughts, but marketing depts fool us anytime.

 

[HipHopScribe]

They never affirm that the EQ works over USB. They do state that it doesn't work with LDAC. There might be a sin of omission there, but they aren't presenting false information

 

[digititus]

They never affirm that the EQ works over USB. They do state that it doesn't work with LDAC. There might be a sin of omission there, but they aren't presenting false information

Correct. Not mentioning that a specific feature is not implemented is not the same as saying it is implemented and it doesn't work.

 

[Hooga]

@Chris Kaoss
I work in a totally different industry, but - guess what - in sales & marketing. I do know what you're talking about
I do also agree that "users should be smart, to avoid being fooled by vendors". Of course.
What would be wrong, though, is to conclude that - therefore - vendors are allowed to be "somewhat" / "up to an extent" "approximative" in their statements. "Allowed to lie... just a bit"
They are not.
In some regulated markets "not at all".
In other markets, like this one, strict regulations are in place for some aspects (safety, mainly - lie on a battery's certification and we laugh loud...), and are missing or loose for others.
What can (and does) work in lieu of regulation is user feedback. Let's all prefer more accurate manufacturers, and the inaccurate ones will quickly understand what they are doing wrong. Keep on "excusing" people like Fiio for "technically not lieing" in a case like this, and they will go on and do worse next time. Simple as that.

Anyhow, I just wanted to share that - to me - their attitude is totally wrong, and for this reason I will not buy from them anymore.
Maybe I'm the only stupid thinking like that. I'll live with it