fighting the loudness war!

[leeperry]

so I like to use VST/DX plugins in ffdshow in 32 float(also possible in foobar)

I remember someone here on the forum had an expander link in his signature, but I can't find the link anymore.

anyway, Izotope RX doesn't look too bad for that purpose :
thesoundtrackzone.com • View topic - Reducing the effects of the Loudness War

I'll try it, but does anyone know any other way to get some dynamics back ?

 

[Jaska]

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeperry /img/forum/go_quote.gif does anyone know any other way to get some dynamics back ?

I've repurchased many hundreds of dollars' worth of CDs in order to get better mastered/pressed versions, and I have been happy with the net results, though hugely disappointed that I had to waste my time and money dealing with the overly loud albums in the first place. Does this get some of the dynamics back? Heck yeah! It's hardly a practical or affordable solution, though.

 

[m0ofassa]

Theres no way to regain lost data. You can fake it -okay- but itll still sound pretty poor.
The most basic would be reducing all frequencies and then boosting 55 hz etc (basic drum hits). Not really worth it imho, when its much easier for sound engineers to do their job with their ears and not with the musicians attached to their lips (guess which end of the musician)
edit: another technique would be to edit the raw wave data and put a noise gate/inverted compression matrix (a dynamic expander basically... stuff like expand the loudest parts with an attack/release/duration of less than 0.05 seconds or w/e). thatll basically do the opposite of what they do in the studio (to an extent), but you still wont regain lost data and how much will sound natural will vary greatly from track to track. The result will be the sound of a drum thats stuffed with blankets, basically.
edit:: if you feel like it I can give it a 2 second effort in a day or two if you name a track. Some songs will be so compressed that itll just sound awful, remember.

 

[leeperry]

hehe ok, that's what I thought....what is gone is gone

noone knows who's that guy who had an expand plugin url in his signature ? it sounded like bs but I still wanna try it

what is pretty amazing is HDCD, the CDDA track is basically overcompressed 14 bits.....if you decode the HDCD you get very nicely dithered 20 bit, but if you don't you basically get junk.

 

[m0ofassa]

I do this as a side job for $ from musos at the local conservatorium (cheap studio time, no limits on number of masters etc), so I'll check isotope RX out since i can probably claim part of it back through tax. Will probably post thoughts in about 4 days.

 

[obobskivich]

very nice m0ofassa, interested to hear opinions

although I 100% agree that you can't "create" data that isn't there, you can feed the audio through various distortion creating devices, such as Creative's 24-bit Crystalizer, or BBE's Sonic Maximizer, and see if the SQ is pleasing to your ears (distortion isn't always bad, from a subjective/human perspective)

basically you just gotta tolerate the poor dynamic range afforded modern recordings, and hope for the best

 

[Brighten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by obobskivich /img/forum/go_quote.gif very nice m0ofassa, interested to hear opinions although I 100% agree that you can't "create" data that isn't there, you can feed the audio through various distortion creating devices, such as Creative's 24-bit Crystalizer, or BBE's Sonic Maximizer, and see if the SQ is pleasing to your ears (distortion isn't always bad, from a subjective/human perspective) basically you just gotta tolerate the poor dynamic range afforded modern recordings, and hope for the best

Haha, yep.

 

[apatN]

Needle drops. Check your torrent sites.
Led Zeppelin in 24 bit.. Om nom nom. Yummy.

 

[obobskivich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by apatN /img/forum/go_quote.gif Needle drops. Check your torrent sites. Led Zeppelin in 24 bit.. Om nom nom. Yummy.

haz talks 'bout I-legal downlow?

also, you do realize 24-bit does nothing but add another 8 bits of worthless noise to the track, as nothing can truly reproduce it? (well, ok, technically not true, I'm guessing that Grado's fed from a pair of Accuphase M-8000's could probably approach it)

 

[apatN]

Well if I own the album I think I can download the album as well regarding in what quality.
Anyway these are all vinyl rips in 24/96. Help yourself. Don't get them if you don't like them.

 

[obobskivich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by apatN /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well if I own the album I think I can download the album as well regarding in what quality. Anyway these are all vinyl rips in 24/96. Help yourself. Don't get them if you don't like them.

point isn't that I don't like them, point is that 24/96 doesn't change the issue at hand

rough output level needed to approximate 24-bit: ~150 dB
rough SNR of equipment needed to handle 24-bit: ~144-150 dB (from microphone input to speaker output)
rough switching speed of D/A converter to handle 24-bit: ~THZ level
reality of 24-bit audio: physical impossibility both for the equipment and the human ear

...now, if you're talking about whales jamming out to music produced by some photonic IC equipment using compression drivers and exponential horns, yeah then we might have a legitimate discussion

 

[jinp6301]

The point isint the number of bits. Its the better mastering that vinyl (usually) gets

 

[obobskivich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinp6301 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The point isint the number of bits. Its the better mastering that vinyl (usually) gets

yeah but he's arguing that 24-bit solves the loudness war, it doesn't

and most vinyl from the 1970's and 1980's was from the height of the loudness war, so it could be just as poorly mastered, and you also introduce the issue of "how good is the turntable, preamp, and capture solution's A/D stage", contrasted to just listening to the vinyl straight from the LP, so thats always a fun objective arguement to have as well

in other words, yes, the cut master in the studio is probably better, but the 30-40 year old LP being ripped into the PC probably isn't

 

[apatN]

Please re-read. I never stated it is due to 24-96. Vinyl rips are in most cases superior and as a plus they come in a higher resolution.

Quote:

Originally Posted by apatN /img/forum/go_quote.gif Needle drops. Check your torrent sites. Led Zeppelin in 24 bit.. Om nom nom. Yummy.

 

[obobskivich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by apatN /img/forum/go_quote.gif Please re-read. I never stated it is due to 24-96. Vinyl rips are in most cases superior and as a plus they come in a higher resolution.

like I said, it all depends on the equipment used for the rip, and the resolution is worthless (so it isn't a plus, its just bigger files wasting space with noise bits)