[hypnos1]

Hi guys.

Just as an adjunct to my last words to ZRW0 re. the different signature of all EL triode-strapped pentodes compared to 6SN7/6AS7G tubes, I have just been reminded big time of how their high resolution (the EL32 family especially) - along with that of my Hugo2 as DAC plus Euforia and T1s - highlights differences in how music has been engineered in the first place.

Compilations on one CD of the same singer/artist are prime sources to detect such differences, and Kate Bush's 'Whole Story' is a very good example...the style of engineering/recording from track to track varies quite unbelievably, with massive variation in voice and instrument positioning especially, as well as emphasis on different parts of the FR.

And so, along with a more balanced IMHO delivery that may at first appear to have less 'slam' than some other tubes, this can sometimes take a while to fully notice/appreciate...it certainly did in my own case! The only downside with my current setup is that it shows no mercy to poorly, or 'quirkily' recorded material...something I'm quite happy to live with, however lol!

 

[ZRW0]

Hi guys.

Just as an adjunct to my last words to ZRW0 re. the different signature of all EL triode-strapped pentodes compared to 6SN7/6AS7G tubes, I have just been reminded big time of how their high resolution (the EL32 family especially) - along with that of my Hugo2 as DAC plus Euforia and T1s - highlights differences in how music has been engineered in the first place.

Compilations on one CD of the same singer/artist are prime sources to detect such differences, and Kate Bush's 'Whole Story' is a very good example...the style of engineering/recording from track to track varies quite unbelievably, with massive variation in voice and instrument positioning especially, as well as emphasis on different parts of the FR.

And so, along with a more balanced IMHO delivery that may at first appear to have less 'slam' than some other tubes, this can sometimes take a while to fully notice/appreciate...it certainly did in my own case! The only downside with my current setup is that it shows no mercy to poorly, or 'quirkily' recorded material...something I'm quite happy to live with, however lol!

Hi H1,

Yes, I fully agree regarding the detestable musical engineering differences on compilations, and didn't need the quad EL32s to notice it
The "Best Of Joe Cocker" (this album https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Best_of_Joe_Cocker_(1992_album) ) is a perfect example of such a disaster for an audiophile...

Back to EL32s, burn-in is progressing on my side (+40 more hours), and results are improving quite well actually.
Sound balance is more accurate, basses are deeper, dynamic is more vivid. The combo finally becomes enjoyable.

Something I noticed though, is that I have to put the volume knob to some significant higher levels to get a correct sound with the quad EL32s.
With 6SN7/6AS7 tubes, I normally set the knob at 8.30-9.00 to get a correct level for both my HD800S and Tror,
With the quad EL32s, I need to set it to 10.00-10.30 for the HD800, and even to 11.00-11.30 for the Kennerton.
This is a bit strange as the Tror is supposed to have a sensitivity similar to the HD800 while having a much lower impedance. If directly plugged to the Hugo2, the same volume setting correctly applies to both headphones (same as with the Euforia with 6SN7/6AS7 combo)... Now, the Tror is a planar and might be more difficult to match (?)...

Regards,

Erwan.

 

[aqsw]

Hey Guys,
I retired, and took my office rig home (Elise and Hegel HD12 dac). I have no real place to hook this up and thinking
of selling. I feel real sad getting rid of this rig. I have never been emotionly involved with gear before! I love Feliks Audio gear.

 

[aqsw]

Hi Guys, happy that I will receive my Euforia soon, and I'm going to connect it with my Hugo2 and WM1Z/macbook as source, while HP is T1.2 and tia fourte

Any recommend for the RCA cable which connects Hugo2 & Euforia? silver or copper?

I use the Morrow MA5 interconnects. I am astonished!
The Morrows really won me over. I started with he entry MA1s and I just keep upgrading.

 

[hypnos1]

Hi H1,

Yes, I fully agree regarding the detestable musical engineering differences on compilations, and didn't need the quad EL32s to notice it
The "Best Of Joe Cocker" (this album https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Best_of_Joe_Cocker_(1992_album) ) is a perfect example of such a disaster for an audiophile...

Back to EL32s, burn-in is progressing on my side (+40 more hours), and results are improving quite well actually.
Sound balance is more accurate, basses are deeper, dynamic is more vivid. The combo finally becomes enjoyable.

Something I noticed though, is that I have to put the volume knob to some significant higher levels to get a correct sound with the quad EL32s.
With 6SN7/6AS7 tubes, I normally set the knob at 8.30-9.00 to get a correct level for both my HD800S and Tror,
With the quad EL32s, I need to set it to 10.00-10.30 for the HD800, and even to 11.00-11.30 for the Kennerton.
This is a bit strange as the Tror is supposed to have a sensitivity similar to the HD800 while having a much lower impedance. If directly plugged to the Hugo2, the same volume setting correctly applies to both headphones (same as with the Euforia with 6SN7/6AS7 combo)... Now, the Tror is a planar and might be more difficult to match (?)...

Regards,

Erwan.

Yo, Erwan, there sure are some rubbish sound engineers/producers out there...either that or their hearing is pretty abominable lol!

And yes, with these particular EL tubes, power output is less than the 11s or 12s for example, and so the vol knob will need to be turned up higher. But fortunately, I find I still don't ever need to go much beyond 12 o'clock, which is fine by me!

Glad to hear things are improving for you with further burn-in...as the rest of us have found. And as @Johnnysound mentioned, the rate of change is not as 'linear' as with most other tubes - it has a rather strange set of steps, to say the least! This is in fact something I found before with other EL tubes - for some reason, they can make sudden, unexpected leaps at odd intervals...weird lol! And just as you think they've probably reached their peak, they decide to confound you once more...nicely surprising/confusing!

And pondering further on J's thoughts that this long and different burn-in nature is down to the cool running, I'm now convinced that this must in fact be the root cause....for all the EL tubes - especially these EL32/CV1052 - given previous experience. Not only because of the very low heater power requirement, and therefore lower cathode temperature, but also the lower plate (anode) temps that are evident in our particular amps' circuits...hence they take longer to cook!! ...('Elementary, my dear Watson'! )....perhaps!.....

And so I hope you too will benefit from said improvements with even more time on your own tubes...GOOD LUCK!...CJ

 

[hypnos1]

Hey Guys,
I retired, and took my office rig home (Elise and Hegel HD12 dac). I have no real place to hook this up and thinking
of selling. I feel real sad getting rid of this rig. I have never been emotionly involved with gear before! I love Feliks Audio gear.

I use the Morrow MA5 interconnects. I am astonished!
The Morrows really won me over. I started with he entry MA1s and I just keep upgrading.

Hi aqsw.

Sorry to hear your Elise has become redundant...but at least you still have Euforia lol!...(which I hope you're still in love with ). I hear you re. F-A's gear getting one emotionally involved...I've never been so deeply immersed in a hobby before! And which is getting my wallet seriously worried once their new flagship amp finally arrives ...

Those Morrow MA5 ICs do certainly look very nice, and good value...given how impressed you are with them. I must admit though, looking at the prices of their upgrade cables, I personally would have liked to see the use of UP-OCC wire in some of them. I notice also they use multi-strand as opposed to fewer, thicker solid wires - probably a debate that will go on forever more lol!!

I do like their option for Eichmann KLE 'Harmony' series RCA plugs in the higher grade offerings...a nice improvement in RCA design (even if not looking so 'fancy') that I believe to be a good step up from the traditional. I certainly found the 'Pure Harmony' ones to help give a bit more clarity, detail and expansive soundstage...before I dispensed with them completely, and gained even more!...(even though this is a rather drastic move, and not practical for most folks alas ). But one thing I must stress for Hugo2 owners : they don't fit!!...the 'jaws' are too big. When using them, I had to file them down to size...a bit of a hassle, but at least I could then use 'em!

Good luck with moving on your Elise, aq...a very good amp indeed...I'm sure you will miss her (retirement sometimes has a lot to answer for...but just think of the extra Euforia time you can have - hopefully!!)...CHEERS!...CJ

 

[ZRW0]

Yo, Erwan, there sure are some rubbish sound engineers/producers out there...either that or their hearing is pretty abominable lol!

And yes, with these particular EL tubes, power output is less than the 11s or 12s for example, and so the vol knob will need to be turned up higher. But fortunately, I find I still don't ever need to go much beyond 12 o'clock, which is fine by me!

Glad to hear things are improving for you with further burn-in...as the rest of us have found. And as @Johnnysound mentioned, the rate of change is not as 'linear' as with most other tubes - it has a rather strange set of steps, to say the least! This is in fact something I found before with other EL tubes - for some reason, they can make sudden, unexpected leaps at odd intervals...weird lol! And just as you think they've probably reached their peak, they decide to confound you once more...nicely surprising/confusing!

And pondering further on J's thoughts that this long and different burn-in nature is down to the cool running, I'm now convinced that this must in fact be the root cause....for all the EL tubes - especially these EL32/CV1052 - given previous experience. Not only because of the very low heater power requirement, and therefore lower cathode temperature, but also the lower plate (anode) temps that are evident in our particular amps' circuits...hence they take longer to cook!! ...('Elementary, my dear Watson'! )....perhaps!.....

And so I hope you too will benefit from said improvements with even more time on your own tubes...GOOD LUCK!...CJ

Hi CJ,

I also noticed the step effect, and was actually wondering if it wasn't due to the heating phase at every startup. To me it seems the tubes mostly improve every time they are switched off and then on.

On my side, I'll put aside the CV1052s for a while. I received an other set of "babies" today (Ken-Rad-VT99 + TungSol-7236), and just started to burn them in.

Out of the box, they already give a spectacular look to the Euforia (black & chrome with the red adapters for the 6F8Gs), and yet again at the first listening session they seem to provide a better sound than every other combinations I tried before !
Gosh, this "game" has no end...

 

[hypnos1]

Hi CJ,

I also noticed the step effect, and was actually wondering if it wasn't due to the heating phase at every startup. To me it seems the tubes mostly improve every time they are switched off and then on.

On my side, I'll put aside the CV1052s for a while. I received an other set of "babies" today (Ken-Rad-VT99 + TungSol-7236), and just started to burn them in.

Out of the box, they already give a spectacular look to the Euforia (black & chrome with the red adapters for the 6F8Gs), and yet again at the first listening session they seem to provide a better sound than every other combinations I tried before !
Gosh, this "game" has no end...

Aha ZRW0...you're discovering just how easy it is to succumb to the addiction many of us are already trying to break lol!!...but there are worse ones, no?!!

And you're also seeing how different combinations in Euforia will give you that 'WOW' factor...have lost count of the number of times this has happened to me! . And it will probably also take you yourself a long time of experiencing such differences, before hitting on the (main) one that becomes pretty well permanent... each combo will have its own merits.

It's a fascinating, if sometimes frustrating journey, to be sure. But certainly one full of enjoyment and surprises....even if it often appears to have 'no end'!...('Bottomless rabbit hole' is often quoted!!). So keep those lovely photos coming, as well as your findings. But remember, all tubes will alter with time...and sometimes not always for the better, it would seem...

As for the changes noticed between ons and offs, this is why it's normally recommended for the burn-in procedure to follow : 7 to 8 hrs play time, with about 1 hr cooling period before next burn... the cooling time is just as important as the playing. But even taking this into account, the EL32/CV1052s still undergo this process somewhat differently to normal, as time goes by lol.

So enjoy the thrill of discovering new 'sounds', on the journey to what suits you best in the end...(end?...hmmm...who knows when that might be?!! ). But most of all, ENJOY!...

 

[Ultrainferno]

I love the 7236 in the Euforia. Have you had time to listen?

 

[ZRW0]

I love the 7236 in the Euforia. Have you had time to listen?

I'm listening-to/burning them for a couple of days now, while switching and trying them with various driver tubes.
Not all drivers match them well (Sylvania 6SN7GTB and RCA5692 are pretty deceiving - bass are soft, and upper-mids and trebble are weak), but with VT231s (Ken-Rad or even better Pavane MkII), they are just amazing !
The Euforia becomes quite punchy, while still detailed, subtle and soft when needed.

I've also listened to the pre-amp part connected to my speaker amp, and here as well the results are outstanding ! I've never seen (actually heard) such precision and dynamic on my system.

To me (and so far ) they are the best power tubes I tried with the Euforia.

 

[connieflyer]

The 7236 is one power tube I have not tried. Hope you continue to enjoy your setup. And keep us up to date on your progress with the tubes. You will help to expand our knowledge base on this amp. Have fun!

 

[ZRW0]

The 7236 is one power tube I have not tried. Hope you continue to enjoy your setup. And keep us up to date on your progress with the tubes. You will help to expand our knowledge base on this amp. Have fun!

I'll try to do a detailed comparison of 6080 vs 5998 vs 421A vs 7236 on the Euforia, as I now own all those tubes.
But the problem comes with the huge number of combination with the driver tubes. For a given power tube, the combo with some driver can provide either a meh or a great experience...
In a nutshell, from my trials:
- the following are great combos: RCA-5692/TS-5998, KENRAD-VT231/WE421A, SYLV-6SN7GTB/TS-6080WA, PSVANE-VT231/TS-7236, and the quad ST coated CV1052s looks promising.
- the ones I don't recommend: RCA-5692/TS-7236, SYLV-6SN7GTB/TS-7236, KENRAD-VT231/TS-6080WA.
- and I had major flows with my TFK-EL12SPEZ trials, whatever the power tube used: major noise, and other gremlins...

 

[hypnos1]

Hi guys.

Although I thought I was done with my 'Midnight Missives' after all this time - and even though I ought to be heeding the call of my comfortable bed! - I feel compelled once again to bore folks with what must be the biggest jaw-dropping moment of my entire time in Elise and Euforia land. And yes, it's still concerning my quad ST CV1052s...

Either my ears just got 30 years younger, or my previous words are coming home with a vengeance...ie. just as I thought my tubes had reached their peak, they're confounding me yet again.

After more hours than I can count, I'm currently revisiting my favourite test piece with which every combo since I began has had to face the jury - ie. the music score from the film 'Gladiator'. Many times I have marvelled at the tremendous skill of whoever engineered this recording, as well as Hans Zimmer and the performance itself, but never have I heard it like this before....and I've played it hundreds of times lol! With so many hours' burn-in on them already, either they decided to make a massive sudden leap in performance or, which I suspect more likely, is probably due to my recent long and many sessions of Mahler's Symphonies. Why? Because these must be among the richest, densest, most dynamic pieces of music ever composed and recorded... and with a vast range of instruments that cover a massive frequency spectrum, from thunderous bass to the most delicate treble...aided and abetted by some wonderfully balanced recordings that allow all the different sections of the orchestra to shine sublimely.

It's probably no coincidence therefore that this further 'conditioning' of the tubes has helped transform the Gladiator music such that my Euforia almost sounds like a different amp. This is highlighted especially in the 'Battle' track, which also has massive orchestration and dynamics, a la Mahler! Bass is the most impressive I've yet heard from this amp...or my T1s!! The massed instrumentation is now delivered with such distinct separation that is uncanny, to say the least...but still perfectly cohesive. I cannot believe this is the same piece of music I've heard so many times before...I am totally, utterly gobsmacked. And I haven't been this way for a very long time!

I could go on for much longer on just what I've been hearing this past hour, but my eyes are beginning to close, so I'll say g'night all....

ps. @connieflyer and @Johnnysound ...as you both must be getting close to the hours I myself have put on these tubes, all I can say is...keep them in...I'm sure you too will soon have this same revelatory moment - on top of those you've already had lol!! ...CHEERS!...

 

[mordy]

I'm listening-to/burning them for a couple of days now, while switching and trying them with various driver tubes.
Not all drivers match them well (Sylvania 6SN7GTB and RCA5692 are pretty deceiving - bass are soft, and upper-mids and trebble are weak), but with VT231s (Ken-Rad or even better Pavane MkII), they are just amazing !
The Euforia becomes quite punchy, while still detailed, subtle and soft when needed.

I've also listened to the pre-amp part connected to my speaker amp, and here as well the results are outstanding ! I've never seen (actually heard) such precision and dynamic on my system.

To me (and so far ) they are the best power tubes I tried with the Euforia.

Hi ZRW0,
As you mention, synergy is of paramount importance and tubes that don't sound good paired with certain tubes may sound excellent with others.
I never had any luck with the 7236 tubes and found them more ss like in their sound, but I don't have the driver tubes that you liked the best.
In my experience, the best power tubes in the Euforia were the GEC 6080 but they are very expensive and hard to find.
Lucked out when I found a Russian seller that had three unlabeled tubes listed as CV2984, and did not know what they were.

 

[connieflyer]

I have the GEC 6080's and I would agree that they are very good as power tubes in this amp. I have only about 50 hours on this pair, as I was looking for the GEC AS7G's and could not find any at that time. So after listening to the 6080's for a short time, of course the GEC 6AS7G's became available so jumped on those. I have about 120 hours on the GEC 6AS7G's but have not used them in about six months. If anyone is looking for a very low hour pair of GEC 6080's let me know. I am going to sell off most of my tubes in preparation for the possible purchase of a new amp. I will make a good price on the GEC's for members here.