Feliks-Audio EUFORIA - A Wolf in "Sheep's" Clothing...
Oct 15, 2018 at 9:05 AM Post #4,846 of 11,413
Have to agree with H on this. these tubes both the clear and the coated are dead silent. There is apparently something else in your system or a bad tube to cause this. If your system is dead quiet with other tubes then you can try to swat tubes to find the offender. If you have more than the four tubes you could try swapping in another, or use some drivers that you are sure are quiet and swap in the EL's a pair at a time until you hear the noise, to try to locate a bad or noisy tube. Wish you luck.
 
Oct 15, 2018 at 9:36 AM Post #4,847 of 11,413
Guys, sorry my message may have been misleading.

I don't think there's any problem with the tubes.
If there's no signal, then there's no noise.
If the record I'm listening to has no background noise, then there's no noise.
Now, if the record I'm listening to HAS some background noise (even a few - I have some of my favorite discs in this case: but I'm used to hear and stand this noise with solid a state amp or other tubes on the Euforia), then this background noise is amplified as well (such as those details we only discovered with those tubes) and becoming rather uncomfortable to me...

Erwan.
 
Oct 15, 2018 at 11:56 AM Post #4,848 of 11,413
Guys, sorry my message may have been misleading.

I don't think there's any problem with the tubes.
If there's no signal, then there's no noise.
If the record I'm listening to has no background noise, then there's no noise.
Now, if the record I'm listening to HAS some background noise (even a few - I have some of my favorite discs in this case: but I'm used to hear and stand this noise with solid a state amp or other tubes on the Euforia), then this background noise is amplified as well (such as those details we only discovered with those tubes) and becoming rather uncomfortable to me...

Erwan.
Hi ZR,
If I understand you correctly you are saying that the increased resolution also increases the background noise and audio clues, and amplifies it, along with details in the music that you did not hear before - correct?
I have experienced this with a different amp and different tubes. In my case it is a case of synergy between driver and power tubes.
Some combinations bring up all the background audio clues into the front and overwhelm you with too much information. Other tube combinations manage to have very high resolution, but the background remains in proportion and does not move up into the front of the sound stage. You can hear everything that goes on in the recording if you want, but the presentation is not overwhelming you with information, and you can enjoy the music in a relaxed way, as well as hearing all of the background details if you concentrate on it.
 
Oct 15, 2018 at 12:35 PM Post #4,849 of 11,413
Hi ZR,
If I understand you correctly you are saying that the increased resolution also increases the background noise and audio clues, and amplifies it, along with details in the music that you did not hear before - correct?

Yes, correct. You captured it well Mordy.
Now, it may be a matter of insufficient burn-in with my tubes.

I've decided to put aside the CV1052 burn-in for a few days, and to try a combination I actually forgot to experiment: Ken-Rad-VT231 + WE421A.
And this last combo is absolutely gorgeous:
  • wide enough, although CV1052s are the best here
  • very detailed, while not flooding the noise upfront (if there's some on the track)
  • accurate and vivid as I like, while being neither too bright nor "too bassy" nor tiring...
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Oct 15, 2018 at 2:36 PM Post #4,850 of 11,413
Yes, correct. You captured it well Mordy.
Now, it may be a matter of insufficient burn-in with my tubes.

I've decided to put aside the CV1052 burn-in for a few days, and to try a combination I actually forgot to experiment: Ken-Rad-VT231 + WE421A.
And this last combo is absolutely gorgeous:
  • wide enough, although CV1052s are the best here
  • very detailed, while not flooding the noise upfront (if there's some on the track)
  • accurate and vivid as I like, while being neither too bright nor "too bassy" nor tiring...

Hi ZRW0.

So, there isn't any kind of obvious distortion apparent (?), which would indeed probably discount the possible causes of problem I mentioned...

It is therefore looking like you do need MUCH more time yet with these tubes - not only for they themselves to develop fully, but also for you yourself to 'acclimatise' to their presentation. Triode-strapped pentodes - like all the EL tube family used this way - do seem to present in a slightly different way to the double triodes used in this (and other) amps, and some folks take a while to become accustomed to this sound.
So I can only recommend that you spend a lot more time yet living with these tubes - if you so choose lol! :wink: And hopefully the traits that annoy you at present will subside a good deal as time goes by. But as always, everyone's ears and preferences are different, so finally you must stay with what pleases you most...there's no single setup that will appeal to all.

Also, the rest of one's equipment will have a great bearing on the final outcome...that wonderful (and sometimes frustrating!) word : 'synergy'.

So good luck with your own quest for audio nirvana! :gs1000smile:

ps. That's a really nice combo you've shown here...and one that will cause a good few green eyes, no doubt!!...HAPPY LISTENING!...CJ
 
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Oct 16, 2018 at 12:59 AM Post #4,851 of 11,413
Hi Guys, happy that I will receive my Euforia soon, and I'm going to connect it with my Hugo2 and WM1Z/macbook as source, while HP is T1.2 and tia fourte

Any recommend for the RCA cable which connects Hugo2 & Euforia? silver or copper?
 
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Oct 16, 2018 at 7:01 AM Post #4,852 of 11,413
Hi Guys, happy that I will receive my Euforia soon, and I'm going to connect it with my Hugo2 and WM1Z/macbook as source, while HP is T1.2 and tia fourte

Any recommend for the RCA cable which connects Hugo2 & Euforia? silver or copper?

Hi skizuki, and welcome.

First, congrats on choosing Euforia - I'm sure you will find this amp an extremely good one (even if I am slightly biased lol!). And double congrats on having the Hugo2...this pairs superbly with Euforia and, IMHO, provides a 'better' sound (ie smoother) than the already excellent one from H2's headphone out.

As for the RCA cable connection, this is not an easy one - for 2 reasons.

1. Some folks prefer copper, some silver. A certain degree will depend upon the rest of the system....if on the bright side, then (good!) copper might be better. Otherwise, I personally would recommend (again, good) silver - which I've been using for years now with both Elise and Euforia. Great clarity, FR coverage, and wonderful treble handling. And I have never found silver lacking in the bass department! With my T1s (Gen1), heavily treble-oriented recordings could occasionally be a tad strident, but not enough to outweigh the advantages. But now I've replaced the cable with my own, using Neotech solid silver (and copper) UP-OCC wires, there is no such downside. As you have the Gen2 cans, treble should be less of an issue, so I would think silver to be a good choice.

2. Something that I cannot forgive Chord for, however, are their inset RCA connectors. Space is so restricted that the plugs on many top class cables will not fit!!...unbelievable IMHO. You must ensure that the entire length of the plug is no more than 1.3mm (Edit : as corrected below, that should be 13 mm, of course!) in outside diameter. If they taper the slightest amount, you're in trouble!...because - another bone of contention for me - the positive contact bar inside H2 is set back so far, that the plug's pin must travel its full length to be sure of making good contact. And so it's also a good idea to try and find cables with long pins to their plugs, if at all possible.

Just as an aside, I personally bit the bullet in the end and decided to open it up(!!) and see if connecting direct via the internal headphone connection (I hate connectors!) would work...and it does lol...superbly!! :smile_phones: (The hp connection is vastly superior to the RCAs, IMO). By attaching extension pieces of (again) UP-OCC silver and copper wires - also in my DIY interconnects - I could then make direct wire-to-wire contact with these, and eliminate yet another connector. Easier though, of course, would be to simply attach one end of the IC cable to a very good headphone jack, if DIY inclined!

Hopefully this has given you a bit more of an idea what to look out for....and GOOD LUCK!...And happy listening when you finally receive your Euforia...CHEERS!.. CJ
 
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Oct 17, 2018 at 3:45 AM Post #4,855 of 11,413
Something that I cannot forgive Chord for, however, are their inset RCA connectors. Space is so restricted that the plugs on many top class cables will not fit!!...unbelievable IMHO. You must ensure that the entire length of the plug is no more than 1.3mm in diameter.



???:disappointed_relieved:

Hei, CJ! Now that's odd! :rolling_eyes: 13 mm?

Ah...'senior moment' guys....(I'll blame it on the Chicken Pox!! :wink:).

Thanks for the quick spot...it should have been 13 mm of course, not 1.3!....SORRY!!...:ksc75smile: (Promise to do better next time lol :beyersmile:).
 
Oct 17, 2018 at 5:12 AM Post #4,856 of 11,413
Hi skizuki, and welcome.

First, congrats on choosing Euforia - I'm sure you will find this amp an extremely good one (even if I am slightly biased lol!). And double congrats on having the Hugo2...this pairs superbly with Euforia and, IMHO, provides a 'better' sound (ie smoother) than the already excellent one from H2's headphone out.

As for the RCA cable connection, this is not an easy one - for 2 reasons.

1. Some folks prefer copper, some silver. A certain degree will depend upon the rest of the system....if on the bright side, then (good!) copper might be better. Otherwise, I personally would recommend (again, good) silver - which I've been using for years now with both Elise and Euforia. Great clarity, FR coverage, and wonderful treble handling. And I have never found silver lacking in the bass department! With my T1s (Gen1), heavily treble-oriented recordings could occasionally be a tad strident, but not enough to outweigh the advantages. But now I've replaced the cable with my own, using Neotech solid silver (and copper) UP-OCC wires, there is no such downside. As you have the Gen2 cans, treble should be less of an issue, so I would think silver to be a good choice.

2. Something that I cannot forgive Chord for, however, are their inset RCA connectors. Space is so restricted that the plugs on many top class cables will not fit!!...unbelievable IMHO. You must ensure that the entire length of the plug is no more than 1.3mm (Edit : as corrected below, that should be 13 mm, of course!) in outside diameter. If they taper the slightest amount, you're in trouble!...because - another bone of contention for me - the positive contact bar inside H2 is set back so far, that the plug's pin must travel its full length to be sure of making good contact. And so it's also a good idea to try and find cables with long pins to their plugs, if at all possible.

Just as an aside, I personally bit the bullet in the end and decided to open it up(!!) and see if connecting direct via the internal headphone connection (I hate connectors!) would work...and it does lol...superbly!! :smile_phones: (The hp connection is vastly superior to the RCAs, IMO). By attaching extension pieces of (again) UP-OCC silver and copper wires - also in my DIY interconnects - I could then make direct wire-to-wire contact with these, and eliminate yet another connector. Easier though, of course, would be to simply attach one end of the IC cable to a very good headphone jack, if DIY inclined!

Hopefully this has given you a bit more of an idea what to look out for....and GOOD LUCK!...And happy listening when you finally receive your Euforia...CHEERS!.. CJ

Thank you hypnos1. Since I'm still a rookie to tube amp, I will try this 7N UPOCC first: NEOTECH NEI-2200 SILVER INTERCONNECT CABLE 1M RCA

To me Hugo2 is superb in dynamic and details, but I just feel it lacks of "human" and "passion".... well I don't know how to describe it. And this is the reason why I go for Euforia.
 
Oct 17, 2018 at 5:16 AM Post #4,857 of 11,413
Hi again @skizuki ...hope you noticed the..er..'deliberate' :)wink:) mistake re. the RCA plug outer diameter measurement, as kindly pointed out to me by the sharp-eyed guys :ksc75smile:...

Another thing you may already have discovered about the H2 line output (if you've used it this way yet) is that you don't have to stick to just the 'fixed' line level out. Using the volume control on the remote, you can alter the level out to the amp as you please (but probably best not to go to max!). And so, in effect, this becomes a remote for controlling Euforia's volume, once it's set to an 'average' level (I myself find between 12 o'clock and 1)...very handy indeed lol!

This is thanks to power coming direct from the FPGA chip (with no op-amp needed) for both headphone and line out. Hence my gamble that I could in fact use the hp out as line out! :L3000:

And so despite the gripes I mentioned previously, I believe the Hugo2 to be a top ranking DAC...with the added bonus of headphone functionality thrown in. Plus, to be thus in such a small form factor is quite amazing!

ps. And even though Chord (and the circuit creator, Rob Watts) believe using external amps to be somewhat inferior to straight hp use, I'm sure you - like myself- will wholeheartedly disagree lol!
 
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Oct 17, 2018 at 5:43 AM Post #4,858 of 11,413
Thank you hypnos1. Since I'm still a rookie to tube amp, I will try this 7N UPOCC first: NEOTECH NEI-2200 SILVER INTERCONNECT CABLE 1M RCA

To me Hugo2 is superb in dynamic and details, but I just feel it lacks of "human" and "passion".... well I don't know how to describe it. And this is the reason why I go for Euforia.

Hi again s.

Is that cable from Hong Kong, at $2200? From what I can see, it doesn't look like proper Neotech wire at all! There is, unfortunately, a lot of fake 'UP-OCC' wire in the Far East...so PLEASE do some homework first before spending that kind of money. FAR better, and cheaper!!, would be to get some Neotech wire (Edit : cable) from a reputable Neotech supplier, and find someone to attach nice plugs for you, if you can't manage it yourself...but just remember the need for RCA plugs NO LARGER in outer diameter than 13mm for the entire length of the applicable part!...CHEERS!..CJ
 
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Oct 17, 2018 at 6:18 AM Post #4,859 of 11,413
Hi again s.

Is that cable from Hong Kong, at $2200? From what I can see, it doesn't look like proper Neotech wire at all! There is, unfortunately, a lot of fake 'UP-OCC' wire in the Far East...so PLEASE do some homework first before spending that kind of money. FAR better, and cheaper!!, would be to get some Neotech wire from a reputable Neotech supplier, and find someone to attach nice plugs for you, if you can't manage it yourself...but just remember the need for RCA plugs NO LARGER in outer diameter than 13mm for the entire length of the applicable part!...CHEERS!..CJ

wow thanks for reminding me the suspicious online shop! I'll probably bring my Hugo2 to try out in an authorized shop.
 
Oct 17, 2018 at 10:07 AM Post #4,860 of 11,413
wow thanks for reminding me the suspicious online shop! I'll probably bring my Hugo2 to try out in an authorized shop.

Thank goodness you didn't go for that fake-looking cable from HK!!... Before I knew better (and read Neotech's warnings about fake wire in Asia - these fraudsters sometimes even use the Neotech name lol!!), I naively thought I was getting some bargain 'UP-OCC' silver wire from an ebayer in Taiwan/China. Luckily, it didn't arrive, and good ol' ebay sorted a refund.

In case you haven't found these sites yet, here's one for showing their silver cables - and list of suppliers - plus one for the sort of DIY cable available, and cost. As you can see, I would imagine that as I mentioned before, you could probably save yourself a lot of money by getting just the cable (I used the XLR version, but for RCA), and trying to find someone to attach good plugs for you...

http://www.neotechcable.com/product2_1.php
https://www.hificollective.co.uk/wire/neotech-interconnect.html

And yes, you're spot on about the H2 sound direct out via headphones...something not quite right IMHO - especially when one has come to love good 'tube sound', over SS! :L3000: And so you'll soon (hopefully!) be in store for a real treat, skizuki...:)
 

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