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Feliks Audio Elise Tube Rolling Guide 6SN7/6AS7G/6080/5998

Discussion in 'Headphone Amps (full-size)' started by renderman, May 6, 2015.
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  1. gibosi
    Only 40 pairs? Between the Little Dot and the Glenn, I have well over a 1000 tubes! And yet it seems I still want more! lol :)
  2. mordy
    Here is my 2cents on running different tubes in each channel:
    If the tubes are very similar, they may complement each other and enhance the sound. However, with the Elise, I found that it is so accurate that it is like listening to two halves of a recording, with a discernible "split" in the sound. This applies even to playing a mono recording where both channels should sound the same. Each channel sounds distinct and different when using two different tubes. Strangely enough, even old monophonic recordings have a sound stage, albeit a narrow one, and the width varies with different recordings. Using the same tubes may produce this small sound stage, disparate tubes will not do it.
    Another point that I cannot explain: There is a synergistic effect with the tubes that are the same - the sum of the sound is more than the individual parts. Listening to a pair of 6N7G produces a very wide holographic sound stage for me in my system. Pairing the 6N7G with a C3g kills the wideness and holographic effect of the sound stage, even though the C3g is an excellent tube.
  3. Renderman
    Haha! I actually want less, I can never listen to them all so, I'll keep the ones I like most and sell the rest. For me it's all about music, not collecting :)
  4. Shaffer

    I included most of my LD tubes with the amp, when I sold it, but kept a few of the better pairs just in case. I probably have 15 pairs of drivers for the Elise and about as many pairs of output tubes. And, around 25 singles for the DV. About a dozen rectifiers and soon to be 5 good sounding pairs of signal tubes for the Woo. Sure, I am curious about some of the tubes I haven't tried, but I feel so burned after the 6N7G affair that I probably won't be buying any. I mean, they were some of the most expensive tubes I've purchased, waited a month for the adapters, and was met with a sound that wasn't terribly impressive. At all. Very disappointing. I understand that it's all a part of the game and I guess I'm no longer interested in playing. It's like jumping into a powerful car for the first time; sure feels eye-opening fast. Once one reaches a point where all the cars he drives are powerful, feeling like they're fast doesn't have the same appeal.
  5. Shaffer

    What I cannot understand is why every 6AS7G/6080 is fine with small drivers, in the DV, but roll a 6BL7 and the same small drivers cause a severe buzz. No such issues with the Elise.
  6. hpamdr

    The AS7G/6080/5998... are low mu and the amplification factor is around 2 the 6BL7 have an amplification factor of 15 and 6BX7 is around 10. This make the amp more sensible to drivers.
    Even if this scheme is used in LD MK3, I'm not sure that is intended to be the design for DV not the Elise.. 
    If you have small drivers that produce some buzz/hum you will notice it more clearly. To minimize hum/buzz, you have to be sure that the grounding is well done (the trick of H1 with grounding the minus of the heater can minimize it). Also, this depend of the used capacitor ... In a word probably that the Elise is better built than the DV.  
  7. Shaffer
    Are you talking about the coupling caps?

    I have an easier solution; use an octal and no noise. :)
  8. mordy
    Hi Shaffer,
    What kind of 6N7G tubes do you have? If I understand correctly, you did not like them, but for my system they are fine. It has to be said that using my headphones they produce an objectionable hum, but listening through my speakers I cannot hear any hum, unless I turn the volume up to deafening loud levels which are not usable.
  9. Shaffer

    I had a pair of Philco with etched bases (S6 and S7, IIRC). No hum; the sound was not up to par. Just wasn't good enough.
  10. gibosi
    And I can add that have Tung-Sol, Sylvania and National Union 6A6, that is, the same bottle as the 6N7G, but a different base, and all of them are very quiet. I have yet to listen to any of them carefully, but soon, hope to compare each of them to 6SN7s of the same brand.
  11. gibosi
    After spending a few hours this morning comparing the 6A6 and 6SN7, I believe that the 6SN7 is definitely the better tube for an OTL driver. For each, the Sylvania, Tung-Sol and National Union, the corresponding 6SN7 is quieter, has better resolution and generally just sounds better. But as the four 6A6 tubes and the adapter cost me a grand total of $46, I have no regrets, and it was fun and interesting to try them out.
    I now think I can summarize in saying that while the ECC31, 6A6 and 6N7G are all very similar in terms of their design and electrical characteristics, the ECC31 stands head and shoulders above the others. It is truly in a class of its own.
    Renderman likes this.
  12. hpamdr

    Does one of you compared the Mullard ECC31 with Sylvania 6SN7W ? I unfortunatelly have none of them as my price limit per tube is around 50$
  13. gibosi
    Yes. In my opinion, the Sylvania 6SN7W and the ECC31 are very close, with very similar tonality. The major difference is the bass. The bass on the ECC31 goes lower and has more slam and authority. As my headphones are somewhat light on bass, I prefer the ECC31. But for those who do not desire more bass, the 6SN7W might be perfect.
    The metal base 6SN7W is the most sought after, but for around $50, you can often pick up the short bottle which is just as good in my opinion.
  14. Renderman
    Great, thanks for your input gibosi! I'm glad we are on the same page about the ECC31 and what I suspected about the 6N7G seems to be true! I'm glad I skipped that tube. Still enjoying my ECC31s, as you say rich, deep, dynamic bass while still providing a huge soundstage and excellent reproduction of the sound over the whole audible bandwidth. This tube helps make good recordings sound very real (or at least very believable) and live.
    b3wannabe likes this.
  15. Shaffer

    I have some Sylvanias that look very similar. I'll just go ahead pretending like they're 6SN7Ws. :D

    Spent $40 of my $100 budget last night on two pairs of Raytheon 6CY7s signal tubes and a RCA 5V4G rectifier, all BNIB, for the Woo . The 5V4G is a backup for one I already have and like a lot. Now I'm looking for a reasonably priced backup for a RCA 5R4GY.
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