[Scutey]

Well all you have to do now is upgrade to an Euforia!

Yes I guess I have!, when you spend so much you wonder if it was such a good idea, then you listen to your music and you forget about the price!.

 

[Scutey]

An interesting question would be: what is the future of Elise and Euforia products? We will see an upgraded version in 2019 or F.A. will release another amp and these will remain at this stand?
And at which price point? This is the question which comes to my mind when thinking about an upgrade.

Well of course we have the new F A 2a3 coming soon, whether that will be it for 2019, who knows?, apart from maybe h1!, perhaps it depends on the continued popularity of the Elise/Euforia as to if their will be more new products or may be mild upgrades of the aforementioned amps.

 

[connieflyer]

Over all these many years, it has always been the same thing. Do I stay at the level I am at or do I reach for something a little bit better. And if I go for the new amp or a better amp how long will it be before an even better one comes along. It's the way life is. But having use of the Elise for a year, and upgrading to the Euforia, the upgrade was well worth the price. It is a much better amp and a much better sounding amp especially with the new tubes that have been found that work with this amplifier. But I know that money will usually be a large consideration and am I really happy at this level, and if you are that's no problem. Enjoyment of the music is the main and primary function of spending all this money on the equipment. It's not attaining the newest latest toy, but expanding your musical Horizon through auditory pleasure and satisfaction. Of course that's just my view

 

[mordy]

An interesting question would be: what is the future of Elise and Euforia products? We will see an upgraded version in 2019 or F.A. will release another amp and these will remain at this stand?
And at which price point? This is the question which comes to my mind when thinking about an upgrade.

Hi Octavian,
I have both the Elise and the Euforia. What bothers me the most about an upgrade is the FA has literally doubled their prices, and I don't feel that they are competitive in their price range.
Regarding an upgrade it would be logical to look for other brands that offer more for less money.
I recently bought a new amp and I feel that it is superior to the Euforia for considerably less money.

 

[OctavianH]

Over all these many years, it has always been the same thing. Do I stay at the level I am at or do I reach for something a little bit better. And if I go for the new amp or a better amp how long will it be before an even better one comes along. It's the way life is. But having use of the Elise for a year, and upgrading to the Euforia, the upgrade was well worth the price. It is a much better amp and a much better sounding amp especially with the new tubes that have been found that work with this amplifier. But I know that money will usually be a large consideration and am I really happy at this level, and if you are that's no problem. Enjoyment of the music is the main and primary function of spending all this money on the equipment. It's not attaining the newest latest toy, but expanding your musical Horizon through auditory pleasure and satisfaction. Of course that's just my view

I agree and I cannot say it better. I always try to find an equilibrium between enjoyment and shopping. I guess I will keep Elise until next year and see in 2019 if I will upgrade it or build me a new gaming rig. Because these are my future hobby projects at the moment. Looking about Intel's progress with 10nm chips and NVIDIAs delays in releasing the new architecture I will, most probably check what F.A is offering in the Euforia line or what prices are on the 2nd hand market. Then we will see. Euforia seems a good option to use my existing tube collection, even if the price is quite high at the moment.
It would be nice to see some picture with your new toys, even if they are not Elise related, they are still interesting stuff to see. So post your impressions and comparisons.

 

[hypnos1]

OK guys...time for a reality check here, methinks

With regard to the pricing (and quality) of F-A's products, I believe some hard facts need to be stressed :

1. Although F-A have had to raise their prices a good bit recently, this is primarily because in the early days they were way undervalued in the first place! - as most folks would agree.

And small, family-run businesses must shoulder far greater costs than companies who enjoy the economies of large scale production and/or very cheap labour...or even smaller 'one-man-band' outfits, with equally small production numbers - for example, at our local meets recently, there was a young electronics guy who puts together incredible SS amps using the best components available, and at a fraction of the price of any commercially available unit of the same standard. It would be neither fair nor reasonable for me to make any such comparison between these and more commercially-oriented offerings...and I wouldn't even want to try.

2. I have yet to see any proper independent, objective reviews comparing F-A's products with headphone amps in the same price category...and I personally doubt very much that there are many of the same quality as either Elise or Euforia that "offer more for less money"...from makers of realistic unit numbers. Those independent reviews that do exist of F-A's amps come out with mostly very positive results, and are equally impressed.

I myself think Feliks-Audio make extremely good amps and that their prices, although not cheap, still offer good value for excellent products. And how many manufacturers offer a 3 year warranty on their (tube) amps?!

Hopefully this will give a more balanced view of Feliks-Audio and their products...CHEERS!...CJ

 

[OctavianH]

What I would appreciate very much on F.A's products is customization. Since all the products are home made and custom, it would be very nice to be able to:
- choose if you need pre-amp outputs
- choose to have an additional input (at least)
- choose if you want Crossfeed or not
And of course, each option should have a price.
Because I never used Elise as a pre-amp. I have for that purpose another equipment. But I have, for example, 3 DACs which sound different and I would like to connect to Elise. At this moment I have to switch all the time the inputs. The only option for me was Espressivo MK2 but that one cannot be used with the same type of tubes.
This is what I like a lot on the Chord Qutest line of products: you pay exactly for what you need: a pure DAC. If you want an amp or portability you choose Hugo 2. If you want a smaller an cheaper one you have Mojo and of couse if you win at the lottery you can try Hugo TT or even Dave.

Anyway, these are just ideas and no criticism. We discuss because we are on a ... forum.

 

[Althalus]

Hi H1

I understand you and accept it but I have one, only one, point of concern.

The amps get better and better by small improvements . And because of thet the price increases. This is not good.
There is a market for the original basic Elise. Some people prefer this one above the improved Elise. They can use the same tubes and have the same fun many on this forum had. And when they one they one day can affort it they can always upgrade the amp but keep playing with the same tubes.

See it as a car, you have the same car in two versions . The basic one and the one with full options.

Maybe time for two Elise's, same chassis, same tubes, just inside different , one improved and one Basic ( more back to the original one).

I compare it with the Glenn amp, you can buy the basic Version or a full specked version including very expensive components double (tripling) the price.

H1, I hope you don't feel offensed , this is just as I see it. When Fa has a different view, then I accept that.
I'm however curious how the others here see it. Is there room for two Elise's?

 

[hypnos1]

What I would appreciate very much on F.A's products is customization. Since all the products are home made and custom, it would be very nice to be able to:
- choose if you need pre-amp outputs
- choose to have an additional input (at least)
- choose if you want Crossfeed or not
And of course, each option should have a price.
Because I never used Elise as a pre-amp. I have for that purpose another equipment. But I have, for example, 3 DACs which sound different and I would like to connect to Elise. At this moment I have to switch all the time the inputs. The only option for me was Espressivo MK2 but that one cannot be used with the same type of tubes.
This is what I like a lot on the Chord Qutest line of products: you pay exactly for what you need: a pure DAC. If you want an amp or portability you choose Hugo 2. If you want a smaller an cheaper one you have Mojo and of couse if you win at the lottery you can try Hugo TT or even Dave.

Anyway, these are just ideas and no criticism. We discuss because we are on a ... forum.

Hi OH.

This kind of discussion is always welcome... 'ideas' are what can hopefully indicate to F-A just where to go next. I wholeheartedly agree about having at least one more input. I'm sure most folks find the pre-amp facility very useful though - even if not straight away.

More options nearly always means greater cost overall, so standardisation is understandable IMHO. However, I personally would also love to see more options for future Elises and Euforias, even though it might sometimes mean slightly higher cost...perhaps offset to a degree by even better components/better deals from suppliers etc.?

For those who can afford it - and those who want both headphones and speakers functionality - the upcoming new flagship amp will have far more to offer. But this will indeed appeal most probably to a different market to what we ourselves have become accustomed lol!! ...

 

[JazzVinyl]

Hello H1 -

Hopefully, FA can stay away from the screaming hot power tube cathode resistors in the new design. I do know for certain that balanced beats single ended.
I'm sure that I will not be in the league who will be to afford the new FA offering, but hope they have learned some lessons from the Elise/Euphoria design, and will put them to good practice in the new amp.

Cheers...

 

[hypnos1]

Hi H1

I understand you and accept it but I have one, only one, point of concern.

The amps get better and better by small improvements . And because of thet the price increases. This is not good.
There is a market for the original basic Elise. Some people prefer this one above the improved Elise. They can use the same tubes and have the same fun many on this forum had. And when they one they one day can affort it they can always upgrade the amp but keep playing with the same tubes.

See it as a car, you have the same car in two versions . The basic one and the one with full options.

Maybe time for two Elise's, same chassis, same tubes, just inside different , one improved and one Basic ( more back to the original one).

I compare it with the Glenn amp, you can buy the basic Version or a full specked version including very expensive components double (tripling) the price.

H1, I hope you don't feel offensed , this is just as I see it. When Fa has a different view, then I accept that.
I'm however curious how the others here see it. Is there room for two Elise's?

Hi A...not offended at all. You have a point that has a certain validity.

The problem is - just how many options can a company offer lol? There are those who may not wish for "full options", just some, for example. Normally with any product, once MK2 becomes available (with improvements that some may or may not want/feel appropriate), MK1 usually becomes obsolete....for better or worse!

For most manufacturers there is a limit therefore to 'flexibility', rather more than in Glenn's particular case - he cannot be used for comparison because, as previously mentioned (and I'm sure he would readily acknowledge) he does not, nay cannot, operate under the same profit imperative, or have the same overhead costs compared to a larger concern. Like the young engineer I mentioned previously, he can therefore be more flexible to customer (limited numbers) requirements. But this is not the norm for amp manufacturers...you just try such requests with the likes of Schiit; Eddie Current, Woo Audio etc. Plus, what kind of response would I probably have got from any of these with my initial suggestion for a new 6SN7/6AS7G amp and subsequent Euforia lol?!...(I suspect not printable here!!!).

I suspect also this is F-A's thinking behind their choices...and I for one would not want to be trying to make them, and please all requirements!

And so it will be very interesting to see just what suggestions they take on board for 2019...I don't envy them one little bit!! ...

 

[connieflyer]

I can understand not wanting to pay for the preamp outputs, I never did use them on the Elise. But getting the Euforia, I did try the outputs, and they did add that slightly warmer sound to the SS amp I was using at the time, a Haman-Kardon AVR 7200. The amp was no slouch to be sure, but it did sound quite good. I now use an Anthem MRX 720 and it two sounds good with the tube inputs. Don't use it this way now, as I have a ground loop, that I don't have time to track down. Was not caused by the Euforia, but related to it. As far as having the ability to order an amp totally custom, while a nice idea, one which I would love to have, I am not willing to pay a premium for the option to just delete those outputs. I agree, having more inputs would be a very good idea, one which in time may come about. Space on this chasis is at a premium so in order for more inputs, it would have to remove the output option. Now if Feliks Audio, had enough input from potential buyers, that could be an option. I myself would gladly trade the outputs for more inputs, but right now that is not an option. I am very happy with the Euforia and the new amp is going to have to sell me on versatility and improvement in sound. One thing I noticed was when I went from Senn 650's to Sen 700 sound improved. When I went up to the Senn 800 improvement was much greater. A real deal changer. I also had the Beyer T1 V1 and thought those were exceptional as well, but unfortuneatly one of the drivers failed and I opted for a refund instead of repair. All the gear in a system will have an effect on the sound and I have seen that the headphones were the best overall improvement in enjoyment for me. I will not be able to hear the new amp, just as I did not get to hear the Elise or Euforia before I purchased them, so I will be monitoring H1's evaluation when he gets the first one. I trust his judgement and experience in the ins and outs of the amps. He was a big mover in the development of the Elise and his conversation with Feliks Audio about possible improvements he wanted for his own Elise, lead to the Euforia. At one time they were considering upgrading Elise that were already sold to the new standard, but there were too many changes to just upgrade the present Elises, so they did more research and design and came up with the Euforia. Thanks again H1. If not for your input and work on these amps, things would be quite different. This is one of the big reasons why I will consider his evaluation of the new amp, before I consider it. Just judging from the back panel, the new amp should have many improvements, and with a 2A3 tube setup, it should sound awesome.

 

[hypnos1]

Hello H1 -

Hopefully, FA can stay away from the screaming hot power tube cathode resistors in the new design. I do know for certain that balanced beats single ended.
I'm sure that I will not be in the league who will be to afford the new FA offering, but hope they have learned some lessons from the Elise/Euphoria design, and will put them to good practice in the new amp.

Cheers...

Hi JV.

I too doubt I'll be in that league, alas. And I'm sure pop Henryk is going to town with the new design! At least I'll have the pleasure, nay privilege, of seeing just what it's capable of...not to mention its heat dissipation lol!!

On which subject, there are surely far hotter amps out there than the Elise or Euforia...albeit with necessary fans! But this must have been taken into consideration with their design...especially subsequently. (One nice extra benefit of using the EL11/12 Spezial combo - amp gets hardly warm. And now, with the CV1052 (EL32) tubes, it's positively cool!! ).

 

[connieflyer]

Agree with H1 about the lack of heat using the El tubes and now with the el32 cv1052 the amp is positively cool. Never even gets warm. I was hoping with this that they would work as an air conditioner in this oppresive heat wave! They don't but at least they do not add to the heat!

 

[Althalus]

Hi OctavianH

What do you use as source for your dac and what connection do you use (optical/usb/coax)?

The reason for this question is that I maybe next year want to invest in a dac. I now use a (sa)cd player as source that is connected by a cinch directly to the amp.

Do you think that I will benefit from a dac or do you think that my marantz s15s1 still doesn't need an external dac.