[oqvist]

Dialogue is nothing bethesda ever been good at. New Vegas was Obsidian I believe which is a lot better. 
 
Anyway I am torn about this one. They still have game addiction ingrediences cornered they hook you with wanting to get the new perks oh what loot can I find here and how can I upgrade this. Exploration part but yes even by bethesda standards the story is not gripping me and I have no clue what I do anymore even less do I care about my lost son or murdered wife.
 
I am being as unfaithful as I can getting a new partner at every possibility rather then trying to get them to like me. The base building part is just tedious of course you can ignore it. I am at level 34 now however did the misstake getting idiot savant level 3 perk so will revert to an old save as this will hamper levelling like crazy .
 
And I find levelling and see what I can get out of my character is the only thing that drives me .
 
One thing though this is the first bethesda game where the characters you meet aren´t butt ugly and it runs well. Just have had issue with one mission. Short stories talking to Katy in Vault 81  don´t bring me forward for that quest 

 

[Rhamnetin]

  Dialogue is nothing bethesda ever been good at. New Vegas was Obsidian I believe which is a lot better. 
 
Anyway I am torn about this one. They still have game addiction ingrediences cornered they hook you with wanting to get the new perks oh what loot can I find here and how can I upgrade this. Exploration part but yes even by bethesda standards the story is not gripping me and I have no clue what I do anymore even less do I care about my lost son or murdered wife.
 
I am being as unfaithful as I can getting a new partner at every possibility rather then trying to get them to like me. The base building part is just tedious of course you can ignore it. I am at level 34 now however did the misstake getting idiot savant level 3 perk so will revert to an old save as this will hamper levelling like crazy .
 
And I find levelling and see what I can get out of my character is the only thing that drives me .
 
One thing though this is the first bethesda game where the characters you meet aren´t butt ugly and it runs well. Just have had issue with one mission. Short stories talking to Katy in Vault 81  don´t bring me forward for that quest 

 
Fallout 3 didn't have great dialogue but it was much better than anything else by Bethesda Game Studios and actually above average for video games.  While the quality wasn't earth shattering it had a good amount of quantity for an RPG.  There's no reason to dial back dialogue further.

 

[thee8thgoonie]

Still haven't had a chance to sit down with this game but still just as anxious to!

 

[oqvist]

It was a bit of a disappointment I have to say. It´s down there with Oblivion I would say.

 

[Vividcard]

  It was a bit of a disappointment I have to say. It´s down there with Oblivion I would say.

At first I would have agreed with you. But it did get better. Character interaction was like talking to a brick wall though
 

  Still haven't had a chance to sit down with this game but still just as anxious to!

Still have an unopened Xbox one collectors edition if you are interested in getting a pip boy

 

[elektrobank55]

I'm about 15-20 hours in, and I've really been enjoying F4, although I'm admittedly a Bethesda fanboy. I loved Oblivion and Skyrim. I played through F3 at least twice and FNV one and a half times. Even though Bethesda's engine is clearly dated, they made some definite gameplay improvements. Shooting outside of VTS seems a lot better compared to FNV and combat in general just feels less clunky. I don't mind the new skill system and I like the new crafting system. I agree the dialogue and story are a little weak. However, the environment of Boston is 10x better than New Vegas. It looks SO much better and is really fun to explore, imho.
 
Just my 2 cents.

 

[oqvist]

I have some 150h it never got better. The shooting mechanics is better and visuals actually didn´t look as dated as they usually do but that has never been why I played this game to get the best graphics and gunplay. There is other games that do that a lot better.
 
Not many shooters do VATS though and the physics of that feels kind of perfect so that was fun. But then all  the effort to make it a semi decent fps goes to waste.

 

[Rhamnetin]

 
Not many shooters do VATS though and the physics of that feels kind of perfect so that was fun. But then all  the effort to make it a semi decent fps goes to waste.

 
No they don't.  You don't seem to fully understand the type of game Fallout 4 (and thus 3) is.  It's not about only using V.A.T.S. versus only using regular shooting, versus only using stealth.  It's about providing multiple gameplay styles and in that regard the modern Fallout games provide far more gameplay styles than perhaps any other game that also has first person shooting mechanics.  They expect casual players to pick their one favorite playstyle and stick with it, and they expect more hardcore RPG players to make multiple characters each with a distinct playstyle and personality.
 
V.A.T.S. is also a deliberate throwback to the classic turn-based Fallout games in which you have a certain percentage to hit your target.  It's awesome.
 
Also I don't think any game does first person shooting outright better than Fallout 4, which brings a great balance between realism and fun, something that only a few other games do (Killing Floor 2, No More Room in Hell, Metro games, S.T.A.L.K.E.R. games which aren't nearly as good in this regard, Battlefield games).  It's made much better by the weapon customization/upgrading system which is undoubtedly the best in existence.  I can understand having a problem with damage and how many shots it takes to kill certain enemies, but those of us on PC can easily tweak these things to our preferences via FO4Edit (and before anyone says "Why should we have to fix this game?" this is entirely personal preference opposed to fixing something that's broken).

 

[oqvist]

Believe me I get it I have played every single game since morrowind. They are all essentially the same just different settings.
 
Just about every fps out there does it better. Also Borderlands which also have the thing with enemy scaling and character growth. 
 
I liked them a lot and the Fallout 4 can´t top previous titles that is my disappointment with it. I would advice new players to try fallout 3 new Vegas instead.

 

[Rhamnetin]

  Believe me I get it I have played every single game since morrowind. They are all essentially the same just different settings.
 
Just about every fps out there does it better. Also Borderlands which also have the thing with enemy scaling and character growth. 
 
I liked them a lot and the Fallout 4 can´t top previous titles that is my disappointment with it. I would advice new players to try fallout 3 new Vegas instead.

 
I advise new players to try all Fallout games.  Fallout 3 only does two things better, but those two things are significant.  They are:
 

1. Player dialogue which contains far more satire than in Fallout 4 (Fallout has always been a satire after all).
2. Role-playing.  More ambiguous player character development, and more importantly more dialogue options.  Fallout 3 usually provides unique pass/fail dialogue for Speech, Intelligence, and Perception in dialogues.  Fallout 4's only unique dialogue is quest related; Charisma doesn't affect what you say, just the chance at succeeding at the persuasion option (and there's never more than two and rarely more than one).  But in this regard, Fallout 3 is utterly trounced by New Vegas and the first two.

 
As for what Fallout 4 does better, aside from obvious technical things:
 

1. Far more authentic level design.  More authentic than any open world game I've played in fact.  Fallout 3's Washington D.C. is far too small and there aren't nearly enough tall buildings or big roads, it's just so clearly scaled down unlike Fallout 4's Boston.  Fallout 3's terrain also seems unrealistically flat and perfect, and it has far more texture repetition thus less unique areas.
2. More and better character development, not that it's great or even the focus of Fallout 4.  Nowhere near that of New Vegas which, with its DLC/expansions, is a triumph in video game storytelling.
3. Far more plot variety.  Fallout 3 hardly even provides two paths while Fallout 4 provides no less than four, with these four being totally different.  So you can role-play more within the plot in that sense.
4. Greatly improved shooting mechanics.
5. Power Armor was taken to a new level.  Far more functionality especially with upgrades.
6. No more clunkiness.
7. The weapon upgrading/customization is really the pinnacle of its design.
8. Layered armor that goes over clothing like Morrowind and Oblivion.
9. New mechanics like settlement building, which with simple mods is great.  Will be mind blowing once proper mods come out.

 
In what ways do you find Fallout 4's FPS mechanics lacking?  For those wondering about them, I'll break down some aspects of them.
 

1. Reproduction of aim sway which is rare, above average simulation of recoil (as in less uniform and a bit more realistic than what most other games do).
2. Awesome sound effects and animations.
3. Great particle effects, even better for NVIDIA users with the new beta patch.
4. Undeniably the most fleshed out, flexible weapon customization/upgrade system.  This results in all sorts of attachments, furniture, properties.  Every upgrade has somewhat realistic properties as well.
5. Fluid, not clunky in the slightest.
6. Good variety, has weapons of all sizes and also laser/plasma guns.

 
In action:
 

 

 
You did mention Borderlands, which is a lot more run of the mill and arcade stuff.  So that seems to be your preference but it's obviously entirely different than what Fallout 4 was going for, lol.

 

[oqvist]

You missread me. I have sad several times that the fps mechanics is the best ever bethesda made. Doesn´t mean they are the best ever in the fps genre But this isn´t a fps or shouldn´t be they should have focused on creating interesting missions and characters instead as it´s supposed to be an adventure not Call of Duty. I am just pointing out to a game with better fps mechanics then Fallout 4 which you seem to hold as the best ever? I can point out several dousins more. Fallout 4 don´t even have multiplayer but that is next step I guess. But well sequels are hard. Sometimes doing the same thing again and again do get to you.

 

[Rhamnetin]

  You missread me. I have sad several times that the fps mechanics is the best ever bethesda made. Doesn´t mean they are the best ever in the fps genre But this isn´t a fps or shouldn´t be they should have focused on creating interesting missions and characters instead as it´s supposed to be an adventure not Call of Duty. I am just pointing out to a game with better fps mechanics then Fallout 4 which you seem to hold as the best ever? I can point out several dousins more. Fallout 4 don´t even have multiplayer but that is next step I guess. But well sequels are hard. Sometimes doing the same thing again and again do get to you.

 
I didn't misread you.  I'm just explaining some of the things that make Fallout 4's shooting mechanics stand out.
 
Bethesda games never have really interesting characters.  That's not the point of them.  The point is sandbox role-playing.  And, on that note, Fallout 4 has the most developed characters of any Bethesda game.
 
I would be interested in seeing your list of games with better shooting mechanics than Fallout 4.  It looks clear from here that they will consist of more simplified arcade style shooters (Borderlands) which plenty of people like me don't like.  There are different kinds of FPS games too.  Some of the best I've found consist of Fallout 4 and Rising Storm for very different reasons.  Look at the other FPS games I listed; those are the few that actually try to deliver a similar FPS style.  A balance of some realism but not enough to deter casual gamers.  So if you're going to list games with "better" shooting mechanics then they can't really deviate from the ones I listed, as anything else is just vastly different and not better.  Also there is no denying that Fallout 4's weapon upgrading system is the best around.  
 
"Doesn't even have multiplayer?"  So multiplayer is a requirement to you when it comes to shooting games?  Shooting mechanics exist totally separate from whether or not a game is single player or multiplayer.  Shooting mechanics define how guns operate within the game.  There's a lot more to the shooting mechanics of Fallout 4 than the likes of Borderlands, Call of Duty, and Battlefield.
 
Fallout 4 is as much of an FPS as Fallout 3 and New Vegas.  No more, no less.  Only if you compare all three of these to Fallout, Fallout 2, and Fallout: Tactics can you complain.  The complaint would be "Why did the franchise take on a totally different style?"  But you're making it out as if Fallout 4 has taken a vastly different turn than Fallout 3.  As far as shooting goes, it has not.  Would you rather have Fallout 3's clunkier, inferior shooting?
 
The real changes made by Fallout 4 compared to Fallout 3 are the voiced protagonist and cinematic camera.  What do these things add up to?  Forced narrative.  Multiplayer is not the next step, you really don't seem to understand this game as you're going in the complete opposite direction.  They wanted to try and cater somewhat to all of the fans of The Witcher 3.  The problem is Fallout and The Elder Scrolls were never about cinematic storytelling, and their writing isn't up to the task, so it ended up limiting Fallout 4 compared to its predecessors.  
 
The Witcher 3, like its predecessors, tells a certain story a certain way with little role-playing.  You play as a set character with a defined personality already.  Hence the limited dialogue choices, hence the cinematic presentation (cinema obviously has no role-playing).  It wants to be cinema.  Where Bethesda should have looked to was Fallout: New Vegas, which has vastly superior writing quality and far more role-playing than almost anything else since its time (only Pillars of Eternity can compare when examining all wRPGs from 2010 until now).  New Vegas has some of the best character development in the history of video games, while providing 100x more dialogue options/checks than Fallout 4 and full fledged cinematic games like The Witcher franchise.  It makes Fallout 4 look silly.
 
TLR: With Fallout 4 we do see that Bethesda is sort of lost, but in the complete opposite way that you describe.

 

[oqvist]

I understand games I just think Bethesda is facing the wrong direction. Hence multiplayer next to score in on that crowd. It must really be tempting.
 
Also you make my point when pointing to the pure fps shooters. What is the point improving the shooting mechanics of Fallout 4 when it´s not what most are looking for with these? How many was totally upset about Fallout 3s poor fps mechanics? Very few even cared. And the medieval morrowind, oblivion, skyrim etc do very well with very simple sword slashing which is not at all as developed as dark souls or something . 

 

[Rhamnetin]

  I understand games I just think Bethesda is facing the wrong direction. Hence multiplayer next to score in on that crowd. It must really be tempting.
 
Also you make my point when pointing to the pure fps shooters. What is the point improving the shooting mechanics of Fallout 4 when it´s not what most are looking for with these? How many was totally upset about Fallout 3s poor fps mechanics? Very few even cared. And the medieval morrowind, oblivion, skyrim etc do very well with very simple sword slashing which is not at all as developed as dark souls or something . 

 
You think Bethesda is going in the complete opposite direction that they're actually going in.  The direction they're going in is cinematic storytelling.  The Witcher 3 inspired them.  This has nothing to do with multiplayer and shooting.
 
Why shouldn't they have improved the shooting mechanics of Fallout 4?  It's an action RPG.  Shooting is a part of it.  Had they not improved them, the game would appear dated and unacceptable.  This is common sense.  Bethesda's goals with Fallout 4 were to:
 

1. Improve the level design, which is always one of their biggest goals with every game.  Succeeded.
2. Improve all gameplay mechanics from Fallout 3, and add some new ones.  Succeeded.
3. Add a voiced protagonist and cinematic camera to appeal to today's typical gamers, cutting back on role-playing in the process (because they obviously weren't going to go with a voiced protagonist and retain as much dialogue variety as Fallout 3, even though the fully voiced Dragon Age: Inquisition has more player dialogue than Fallout 3).  Thankfully, many gamers see through this and don't consider it a storytelling triumph.  Unfortunately, most gamers instead want them to go forward in this way and further abandon role-playing just like The Witcher games, rather than wishing for a proper evolution of Fallout 3 (like Fallout: New Vegas is).
4. Make the engine x64, DX11, utilize hardware better, and produce better graphics.  Also better animations and sound effects, usual technical stuff.  Succeeded.

 
There is a strong parallel between the gameplay of Fallout 3, 4, and The Elder Scrolls.  They have streamlined first person action mechanics.  They translate equally; TES is the fantasy (not medieval but I get what you mean) version of Fallout 3 and 4, or Fallout 3 and 4 are the post-apocalyptic versions of TES.  Dark Souls is a completely different type of game, a better comparison would have been Dark Messiah: Of Might and Magic, which has melee combat that's the natural evolution of TES.  Man if only TES had that melee combat...