[Boxman90]

Since nobody replied in the other topic and this is a pretty active forum, I figured I'd have to make a new thread to enlighten my case.

The Problem

To start with, here's the case. Once some time ago, I bought a genuine Sennheiser CX400 from a local shop, and I was quite happy with them as an accessory to my iPod. I paid something like 70 euro's for it.

Then, not too long ago, I came across a certain site that shall remain anonymous, settled in Hong Kong, that also sold the Sennheiser CX400, for the bargain price of 25 dollar. I read alot about these fakes, but I was so eager to find out what quality the 'fakes' were, that I decided to buy a pair.

Here's the funny thing. They sound exactly the same as my own earbuds, except for the fact that there might be a slight difference (a difference me nor my father can point out actually) due to the 'new' set not being 'burnt-in'. For this, me and my dad concluded they were both the same quality.

The really funny thing is this: according to those so called 'fake tests', my 'fake' headphones from China are half genuine and half fake. That is, the clip and the carrying thing are genuine, but the pouch is nonoriginal because it's plastic, and the earbuds are nonoriginal because the grill is flat and it should be bent (??!?!!). I saw pictures of that, so I know what is meant.

Moreover, my ORIGINAL set is half FAKE according to those things! (?!). That should be because my original set also has a flat grill and a plastic pouch.

My opinion on those 'fake-identifying tests':

Factories often change production processes to save a little bit of money while keeping the retail price the same. Obviously plastic is cheaper to produce and handle than leather, so I think Sennheiser just wanted to save money on that because it wouldn't matter for the sound quality anyway.

Same goes for the grills. The only difference according to those fake-tests is that one is bent and one is not. But in my opinion it's ridiculous to call earbuds fakes upon such a small detail. I'm sure Sennheiser doesn't make those grills himself, but just buys them from another (metal) factory. So I don't think it's so unlikely for a factory to run out of those things, and receive a new batch thats marginally different then the first batch.

Plus the fact that they just sound the same (which is really good), than they can't be anything else than original I gues?

My opinion on the "how did that website get originals then?"

Here's what I think is happening. A lot of stuff is just made in China, mostly because that's cheap. However, those Chinese aren't crazy themselves.

First they just get an assignment to produce a certain amount of CX400 earbuds. Nothing wrong with that. They produce it, but once the quotum is met, I think that Chinese factory just thinks "ah what the hell" and lets the belts run for another few hours, if you catch my drift.

This way they can sell their produce for probably more on the internet than they get from Sennheiser itself.

And ofcourse we all know that one asks gold for a product wearing a famous brand name.

In Conclusion

I think it's very well possible that some of these so-called 'fakes' are actually the same earbuds. The only nonoriginal thing about it, is the price, and the fact that it hasn't gone through Sennheisers own distribution net.

So couldn't it just be that these fakes are from the same production line, only with the cheaper price, because Chinese factories just want to make more earnings (regardless of the legality of it ofcourse).

I'd really like some opinions about this.

 

[chinesekiwi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boxman90 /img/forum/go_quote.gif My opinion on the "how did that website get originals then?" Here's what I think is happening. A lot of stuff is just made in China, mostly because that's cheap. However, those Chinese aren't crazy themselves. First they just get an assignment to produce a certain amount of CX400 earbuds. Nothing wrong with that. They produce it, but once the quotum is met, I think that Chinese factory just thinks "ah what the hell" and lets the belts run for another few hours, if you catch my drift. This way they can sell their produce for probably more on the internet than they get from Sennheiser itself. And ofcourse we all know that one asks gold for a product wearing a famous brand name.

Oh no doubt this is what they do, it's quite well known fact.

 

[.coco]

Those factories in China can be quite shady. It is not unheard of them to sell certain components of products. For example, for a certain video game console (I will not name it, but it is one of the current ones), the factory sold genuine chip sets to a company which used them to make fake consoles. The fake consoles ran almost identical to the originals due to this, but they are still fake.

Of course I have to say, please do not support these products. If you really like the products that a company makes, do not hurt them by buying non-genuine products. If you want to buy future products of theirs, the profits from genuine products support their R&D.

 

[Boxman90]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinesekiwi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oh no doubt this is what they do, it's quite well known fact.

Ah okay, didn't know that. But this also tells you that for this type of fake, there's not really a way of telling which one is fake, unless you know that the seller bought it in China, right?

 

[346L3]

It doesnt really matter if the fake is made from the original parts or copied parts. I bought a fake ep630 once that broke after two days so I assume that they were fakes made from copied parts. The fakes made from original parts are a good bargain but would you really want to risk it and probably get a crappy phone? And like the others said buying these "high quality" fakes dont support the companies. The tests can help you but in the end you are always better off buying legit originals.

 

[captian73]

Quote:

My opinion on those 'fake-identifying tests': Factories often change production processes to save a little bit of money while keeping the retail price the same. Obviously plastic is cheaper to produce and handle than leather, so I think Sennheiser just wanted to save money on that because it wouldn't matter for the sound quality anyway.

The thing is you've bought one pair of fakes, which sounded very similar. Thinking that there is only one variation from one factory is misleading, it doesn't quite work like that, but i'm sure you know that.

I know that Sennheiser test many fakes, and I've had a few different versions of fake CX300 in my time.

You make some good points about the Chinese making the same headphones with the same molds, however with my many phone calls with the people at Sennheiser and Bose, it doesn't quite work like that! Unfortunately, I'm not allowed to divulge any of the conversations I've had with Sennheiser.

Anyway, why not do what soundwise have done and create a better product, like the soundwise T4? soundwise could do what any other counterfeit merchant do, use the Sennheiser name and sell 10 times the amount. instead, they're creating a genuine alternative product, and good on them, because it's a good product.

I do understand what you are saying about the 'half genuine' half fake' point, but i'm not sure if its as cut and dry as that. the product as a whole (ear buds, carrying case etc) has either come from a manufacturer who has rightly paid for a production run of their own design, and they want people to buy the genuine thing, or its a cheap imitation from a company trying to con people by selling them as the real thing. And that's the issue with counterfeit headphones. these counterfeiters fraudulently use someone else's well reputable product to sell their cheaper product. It doesn't matter which way you slice it, it's wrong whether a product sounds the same or not is irrelevant, it's basically fraud and theft.

Say you wrote a book "Fake headphones and my story" - By Boxman90 and it sold better than Harry Potter. Your mixing with the Stars, you buy a whole host of Italian supercars, maybe your own jet, buy a bunch of house, spent millions on production and and marketing, and then I come along, change the book slightly, use your well establish name, sold the book for half the price you sell the book, and I become a Millionaire cutting into our profit in doing so, i don't think you'd congratulate me.

I'm sure you would be furious, as you saw your profits fall, i'm sure you would get the lawyers in to help you recoup your losses, and that's what's happening with many manufacturers today. Manufacturers are quite within their rights to say, "these products are fake" because that's what they are.

Quote:

Same goes for the grills. The only difference according to those fake-tests is that one is bent and one is not. But in my opinion it's ridiculous to call earbuds fakes upon such a small detail. I'm sure Sennheiser doesn't make those grills himself, but just buys them from another (metal) factory. So I don't think it's so unlikely for a factory to run out of those things, and receive a new batch thats marginally different then the first batch.

I would like to agree with you on such small detail, but again this is pie in the sky. It's like saying that you can't tell that the PX200 my friend bought are fake, because of the padding..or because the Sennheiser logo is skew whiff .. but i feel it's small details like that that do confirm the that they are fake.

fakeheadphones.com » Are You Happy To Recieve A Pair Of Counterfeit Sennheiser PX200

I'm planning to do a big piece on those "China wholesaler' and Chinese warehouse thing, but I think it's better to point people to the right places instead.

fakeheadphones.com » Blast! I Think My Sennheiser CX400 Earphones Are Genuine


Now on the CX400's. I have bought a pair recently, and they were marked as 'refurbished', so i wasn't expecting the whole package. I was hoping they would be fake, however I also marked out why I thought they were genuine, as I did with the JBL220 earphones. However I have also stated that I've yet to do more research, and that my findings weren't a definitive conclusion.

However my motives are to help people. In doing so, I may make the odd mistake, but I'm not trying to help people get ripped off, hence I didn't identify the seller of my CX400 and I've added a warning. I think we must all help each other (which is why we're here i hope) get a genuine product.

Have a good Christmas everyone.

 

[Boxman90]

I understand your points on buying those fakes (fake as in not sold by official Sennheiser resellers) is not a good thing, and that the fake-sellers are actually thiefs and fraudeurs.

Your post has been very informative for me, so thanks for that ^^

One small thing though, you say that those small details mark a fake product to you. The problem in my case, is that the small details as presented in those fake-identifying-tests actually try to tell me that my original phones are also fake. So I'm still puzzled by that.

Merry christmas to you too

 

[captian73]

I buy all my genuine stuff from amazon, and not a third party. it's not the just the grill, but the plastic that hold the grills. I'm not saying i get it right every time, but i think it's a matter of identifying the obvious first. getting down to the grills is where things get tricky, so if ive made a mistake about the minor details, then sorry. But the major details are easy to trace. so concentrate on those first.

unfortunately, now i have to buy an original pair at full price, and a fake pair. i was planning a fake and genuine PX100 comparison, but my PX100's have just given way (left driver has failed...cable perhaps) and so things have been expensive this month.

it's one of those things where legally i'm not at liberty to tell you what i've discussed with Sennheiser. at the end of each call i aways ask; what can i put on the site, what can i say?" and the answer is always something along the line of, "well you better not put that, or this until you've spoken to such and such, but you can put this."

it really depends also on where you buy and who's supply them. as far as the UK is concern all i can say is that I know where the genuine articles come from and i make that known. again i can't comment about particular merchant site.

As far as those Chinese producers go, I've sent off an email asking each manufacturer involved if they deal with those particular factories/sites. I'm waiting for the replies. but I know that Bose for example don't use them and i can't think that any of the others do either.

My CX400's, maybe they are fake, i do need to look into it. One thing.....it all a bl*@dy inconvenience really. i pay the money, i just want the real thing. Shouldn't be hard really, but there are a lot of dishonest people who have found a way to make a quick buck.

What i do suspect is that people are buying CX300 (and the like) in bulk from amazon and selling them on ebay. I'll go into more about why i suspect that later! but i have seen, and in my naive days, i've actually encouraged friends to buy low cost CX300's. It really never occurred to me that they would be fake at the time. How trusting i was, but not now!

anyway, the trouble and strife is moaning at me, so have a Good 25th.

 

[REH]

According to Sennheiser, they don't manufacture in China. I got fooled by "dalineon" who told me he got his product from the Sennheiser factory in China.

Buyer beware1

 

[mercurysquad]

I got Sennheiser HD 555 here in India from a trusted seller, it has the import sticker which says name of importer: Sennheiser Electronics India Pvt. Ltd. (followed by address) and under name of manufacturer, it says:

Sennheiser International Manufacturing GmbH (Guangzhou)
R1109 Bank of America Plaza, 555 Renmin Zhong Road
Guangzhou, China - 510145

It came in original packaging, I paid full price and the sound is what I expected.

So yeah I think they do manufacture in China, though the company seems to be registered in Germany (hence the GmbH). Either that or there are now fake HD 555s which are difficult to identify...

 

[captian73]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mercurysquad /img/forum/go_quote.gif I got Sennheiser HD 555 here in India from a trusted seller, it has the import sticker which says name of importer: Sennheiser Electronics India Pvt. Ltd. (followed by address) and under name of manufacturer, it says: Sennheiser International Manufacturing GmbH (Guangzhou) R1109 Bank of America Plaza, 555 Renmin Zhong Road Guangzhou, China - 510145 It came in original packaging, I paid full price and the sound is what I expected. So yeah I think they do manufacture in China, though the company seems to be registered in Germany (hence the GmbH). Either that or there are now fake HD 555s which are difficult to identify...

As far as I know, they don't manufacture in China! They have an R&D center in California and Singapore, but they don't manufacture

Sennheiser Worldwide: Microphones, Headphones and Wireless Systems

 

[chesterqw]

i honestly think china will be the first to successfully clone a human.

 

[captian73]

I don't know about that, but as far as Sennheiser and counterfeiting goes, it seems that only the small stuff is copied CX some PX Range. I've yet to see or hear any fake of the full size gear. However I won't hold my breath.

 

[TheDeliveryMan]

Fakes can come in a variety of flavors; some are good clones, some are obviously bad. More important for the consumer than appearance and performance is the integrity of the product. Fakes are generally built in unfair labor conditions, in a dirty basement, by hand. Quality control is not a talking point and they do not care about anyone but themselves, which takes jobs away from good people, and often supports drug and terrorism activities. When shopping for a good deal, consult you local Sennheiser dealer. You will always avoid buying counterfeits this way, and get a great Sennheiser product with full support.

 

[mercurysquad]

I called Sennheiser India's head office a few hours ago, asked them why it was imported from China. Got transferred to the product manager (?). He said some parts do come from China but they are assembled in and imported from Germany. I'm suspicious now, as such a tough-to-identify clone of HD555 is worrying! Everything seems as it should be right from the packaging to the sound (imo, though there is somewhat accentuated 250Hz band). I got a bill with it too.

I asked how I can identify for sure if it's legit or a clone. Got asked to bring it to the service center in Gurgaon (near Delhi) where the head of product management (!) will take a look and confirm if it's genuine. I live around a 1000km away from there so that won't happen until late October. Will post my findings.

I hope this thing is genuine as I'm not exactly blown away by the sound yet compared to my 3 year old HD201 (!!). I hope it's because it's not burnt-in yet.