You know what else is a lifestyle? A cult! You must adhere to the precepts of the cult and only to the precepts of the cult! Which cult are you in?! The Cult of Objectivism or the Cult of Subjectivism? The Cult of Analog or the Cult of Digital? The Cult of Dynamic or the Cult of Planar? You can't be wishy-washy and there can be no waffling! I must know so that I regard you as either friend or foe!
I knew a record collector who lived in a professional warehouse. It looked like a regular shipping warehouse with a big sliding door and loading dock for trucks. Once you were inside......with the rows of lights switched on it looked much like a book library. Rows and rows of records 10 feet tall 30 feet long. The only place to actually live was in the small front shipping office. This is probably the single greatest example of a vinyl lifestyle I found so far. We were great friends, hanging out at a record store.....until right in front of his face I made a find. A discovery of sorts. Two records. The German super group “Faust” basically a rare reprint of their first album which being their name is Fist in German, was an X-ray and pressing on clear vinyl with a clear sleeve of a hand making a fist. The second simultaneous find was “Faust So Far” another rare and mint condition repressing which included a complete 12x12 printed art gallery enclosed next to the record. His face dropped and in the smallest of voices he asked if I was going to let him buy them. “Of course not, I yelled!” This was my find and it was glorious. We were never friends after that.
I have never tried to influence anyone to switch to vinyl in my opinion either you love it or you don't and that's fine .
I'm a bit of an anomaly because I've been a part of nearly every digital format from DCC , DAT , Minidisc and when Flac became available I converted all my CDs to Flac or Alac but still now buy almost exclusively Vinyl when available .
I most of the time for Convenience play digital files but still use my turntable or my reel to reel when I want to kick back and really enjoy music .
Because of a shift in Minidisc prices lately I sold all my Minidisc and HI-MD recorders and several hundred disc's because I really was not using them very often but still have DCC. And DAT recorders
So I appreciate a well made digital file but I've never understood why someone who does not like Vinyl wants to debate or argue about it.
There is nothing I like more than playing a record or a Reel to Reel tape .
But debating it's merits is really not all that interesting .
I am grateful to the people that are buying vinyl now and for the Hip Hop guys that helped keep it going during the lean years .
But for some reason when I chose lossless it offended people that were absolutely sure there was no difference and every so often a thread like this pop's up because someone wants to show that vinyl absolutely can't be better.
You were into minidisc! Me too! In retrospect I feel kind of silly about it but I couldn’t foresee the future. I did during that time get all of my favorite LPs, cassette tapes, etc., onto minidisc until the technology progressed and it was very clear minidisc was not going to make it and was going to be inferior. I still have all of my multicolored minidiscs though and a few playback devices. You can send them through the washer and dryer and they still work (speaking from experience). Also minidisc was where I first comprehended the power of digital. I would ever so carefully record an LP onto minidisc and it sounded just like. . . an LP! And it was a heck of a lot more durable and convenient, and getting it all just right was a one-off effort, not a routine where you wore out and risked scratching your records. And my cassettes are all preserved on minidisc and were trashed as I realized the cassettes would degrade over time. So it’s not all bad. In fact I recorded minidiscs of LPs to CDs and ripped them and then Apple Music gives me a free 256 AAC version of the song or CD to download—quite an upgrade. Of course ATRAC fell behind the other lossy codecs in the long run and the market spoke—minidisc was to be no more.
You were into minidisc! Me too! In retrospect I feel kind of silly about it but I couldn’t foresee the future. I did during that time get all of my favorite LPs, cassette tapes, etc., onto minidisc until the technology progressed and it was very clear minidisc was not going to make it and was going to be inferior. I still have all of my multicolored minidiscs though and a few playback devices. You can send them through the washer and dryer and they still work (speaking from experience). Also minidisc was where I first comprehended the power of digital. I would ever so carefully record an LP onto minidisc and it sounded just like. . . an LP! And it was a heck of a lot more durable and convenient, and getting it all just right was a one-off effort, not a routine where you wore out and risked scratching your records. And my cassettes are all preserved on minidisc and were trashed as I realized the cassettes would degrade over time. So it’s not all bad. In fact I recorded minidiscs of LPs to CDs and ripped them and then Apple Music gives me a free 256 AAC version of the song or CD to download—quite an upgrade. Of course ATRAC fell behind the other lossy codecs in the long run and the market spoke—minidisc was to be no more.
HI-MD was a very good format and sounded as good as any of my Flac files but I quit using it because neither of my computer's supported Sony's Software .
I still have several Sony atrac players that are beautiful design's with docking stations that I hold on to because they were in my opinion a peak in Sony's design
Vinyl is kind of like my Harley Davidson there are many bikes that are faster and technologically more advanced but none more satisfying to ride in my opinion.
I know many people that get right into the 1960s American and Australian muscle cars. Although compared to modern performance cars they are slower (unless heavily modified), don't handle as good, have poorer steering, brakes, ride, comfort, safety and so on, they genuinely do prefer driving the older cars as it is a more visceral experience. The difference they have to most audiophiles is that although they prefer driving the older cars, they do not make unsupported claims of objective superiority.
My pet theory? That all of the non-audio elements of vinyl actually affects the way we hear, or at least the way we perceive sound (if there's a difference). I was recently reading about how the sense of taste can be affected by input received from other senses— your tastebuds become more or less sensitive based on sense of smell, sight, touch and hearing— so that a glass of wine will actually taste different depending on where you drink it. This was the gist of the article as I remember it (there's always the possibility that I'm misremembering), anyway, though I can't for the life of me find it again. I've long thought that the experience of listening consists of more than just audio, which can affect perception and therefore preference, which can then be confused with fidelity. After reading that article, I wonder if there's an actual physiological element that could actually change the way things sound.
Actually it is more than a pet theory, it is part of the complexities which feed into expectation biases. Playing vinyl does involve more of our senses - the visual aspects of looking at the cover and record, watching it play, the tactile aspects of handling the record and record player, the smell of the record and our memories of listening to the format, eg the familiar bump sound as the stylus is lowered onto the record, the faint crackles etc. If our experiences of all this is positive then it can enhance the listening experience, it doesn't change the actual sound of the music entering our hearing but can change the perception of it in our brains. On the other hand, for those that find the record playing ritual to be a PITA and a distraction from the music, the experience can negatively affect perception of sound and the record may sound worse than what it is.
Me personally, although I grew up with records, have plenty of records and still sometimes play records, I have had more enjoyment (and listen to a lot more records) since I digitised my record collection. But that is because I have never been into the ritual (even loading a CD into a CD player is a step I rather avoid). I prefer sitting back, relaxing and just listening to and focusing on the music. Streaming the music to my stereo has been one the best things that happened to me with regards to audio enjoyment.
I think old school record collectors might be less into the fetishistic aspects of rekkids than people who grew up with CDs and tapes. I keenly remember groaning when the side break came and I had to get up and change the record. I also remember being pissed when I'd bring a new record home and it would be warped... or when I accidentally dropped my record on the corner of a table... the sound of the needle hopping out of the groove when someone stomped across the floor next door. There were a million little inconveniences and major pains in the butt that tempered my love of vinyl and made me go with CDs and not look back. I still have my records... tens of thousands of them... but if I can find the same thing on CD, I'll happily trade. In fact, if there are any vinyl fans in LA who are looking for free records, if you transfer my records to lossless files, you can keep them. I have about 6,000 VHS tapes looking for a good home too. Have I mentioned the laserdiscs yet?
In my eyes the biggest change today is the fact that young ones have music everywhere. It's free on YouTube, they download it free, it's a bombardment of music from every direction. That being said there is no more rarity. 30 years ago you would find a record at a garage sale that had an interesting cover. Because of your early limited musical knowledge there was a mystery. You could not google the name in and get a full history. The music would not just magically pop up on YouTube after an inquiry...........
With that the record had a possible value, but you didn't know. But....much more importantly you had a piece of music in your grasp. And on a good stereo it was better than off FM radio. But it was a single record which could be played over and over at will. Also you didn't make up your mind right off, as it may take listens to learn the value. You may or may not know the artist or genre. The paycheck was learning later that you stumbled across a well known classic. It may have been from books or word of mouth that you later learned that other humans found profound value in that old dusty piece of trash.
Today kids actually have less control because there is less random finds like above. Record companies make videos to suggest popularity of artists and music they want. With more choice there is less time to focus on a style of music that at first may not seem interesting. Because there is so much music the value becomes less.
Even with the information printed on an old album cover.......it was still limited. Much of the time there was no way to learn what country the artist was from. You had no way of knowing what bands they had been in before or where their schooling was unless you read books. At first call this lack of information would seem a deficit? Yet is was not a total deficit.......as having only the music could generate a special concept of only listening at face value. You could not get an pre-opinionated listen. That style of magic only happens now when a friend plays a record and refuses to spill the beans on what it actually is.
I think old school record collectors might be less into the fetishistic aspects of rekkids than people who grew up with CDs and tapes. I keenly remember groaning when the side break came and I had to get up and change the record. I also remember being pissed when I'd bring a new record home and it would be warped... or when I accidentally dropped my record on the corner of a table... the sound of the needle hopping out of the groove when someone stomped across the floor next door. There were a million little inconveniences and major pains in the butt that tempered my love of vinyl and made me go with CDs and not look back. I still have my records... tens of thousands of them... but if I can find the same thing on CD, I'll happily trade. In fact, if there are any vinyl fans in LA who are looking for free records, if you transfer my records to lossless files, you can keep them. I have about 6,000 VHS tapes looking for a good home too. Have I mentioned the laserdiscs yet?
I grew up with tapes, and I hate tapes so much. I dislike CDs as well. Don't miss carrying around cd cases with limited amount of music in one huge cd, and worse for records!
I guess like the previous poster said, there's a ritual and a collecting element to albums. Like any other hobbies, there are people put more weight into different aspect of the hobby, like the collecting part. Personally, my focus is just the music and listening to it, so convenient is most important (to certain extent as I'm still an impracticle audiophile).
I recall one time when I visited a friend with an audio system he was so proud of. It was actually a record system, and I guess the needle was quite expensive. I listen to it, and I thought it was mediocre sounding, but couldn't tell him in person. Maybe one day I'll hear a good sounding record system. Until then, it's digital library for me, Tidal streaming, etc..
I wouldn't buy an album created from digital master expecting sound quality.
Do you hear people say their record player makes it sound more 'analog?' I hate it when people say that. When they say that, it usually sounds mediocre. Whenever somebody brings up more analog or some crap, I expect something to not sound right.
I grew up with tapes, and I hate tapes so much. I dislike CDs as well. Don't miss carrying around cd cases with limited amount of music in one huge cd, and worse for records!
Do you hear people say their record player makes it sound more 'analog?' I hate it when people say that. When they say that, it usually sounds mediocre. Whenever somebody brings up more analog or some crap, I expect something to not sound right.
I scratch my head too. What do they mean by 'analog sounding', do they mean more noise or less transparent or something else? The other one that is hard to understand is 'digital sounding' when digital does not have a sound.
Typically these terms are usually used in a passive aggressive way by digiphobes who don't understand the irony.
I scratch my head too. What do they mean by 'analog sounding', do they mean more noise or less transparent or something else? The other one that is hard to understand is 'digital sounding' when digital does not have a sound.
Typically these terms are usually used in a passive aggressive way by digiphobes who don't understand the irony.
Much of this is dealing with sound perception and becomes pure subjective thought on the part of the listener. In fact much of this same form of reasoning gets attributed to character of headphones and it’s actually simple.
HD800 “too thin.....to much detail.....amp dependent”
Digital “too thin........no soul.....not warm enough.....cold”
Vinyl “warm......forgiving.....smooth.....romantic”
Tubes “warm....romantic....smooth....organic”
Above are not my conclusions but generalizations from reading 11 years of posts describing sound character.
You’ll notice though.....no one ever said......
“Digital..........too much detail?”
Obviously this is not a subject based on detail. IMO
Has the HD800 ever been called organic? No it’s not even called organic by folks into the character response. It’s “reference” or “clear” or “detailed”.
Though I have an idea that when folks finally gel with the perfect sound system they do start to actually round-up the adjective ideas into words.
Perfection!
Detail, organic, realistic presentation.....musical. Meaning the folks who love the HD800 would say it borders on organic. But only natural because it’s representing truth to their ears. It’s somehow that the word “organic” has been applied to natural warmth? It’s pure semantics! IMO
The problem today isn't the easy availability of music, it's the tendency of people to put themselves in a stylistic box. People in their 40s and 50s listen to the same music they listened to in the 70s and 80s. Young people only listen to their own sliver of current rock or pop music. People aren't interested in the medium of music making, they're interested in genres. And there are a million different names to describe subtle differences between a bunch of stuff that is all basically the same!
I was stuck in my own stylistic bubble too when I first started. I only bought records I was already familiar with. But then I discovered the Capitol Records parking lot swap meet and I started buying things I didn't know anything about... jazz, classical, country, easy listening, pop vocals, latin, blues, ethnic, harmonica groups, bluegrass, hawaiian guitar... you name it. Records were a buck apiece and if a cover looked interesting, I'd take the chance on it. My interests started branching out like limbs of a tree in all directions. I didn't need to remain in the little box of Art Rock and New Wave stuff that I had constructed for myself, because there was a whole world of music unfolding in front of me. Now I go on youtube and continue to expand my interests. It's no different.
The problem today isn't the wide choice of music available. It's the narrow interests of the average listener.
The problem today isn't the easy availability of music, it's the tendency of people to put themselves in a stylistic box. People in their 40s and 50s listen to the same music they listened to in the 70s and 80s. Young people only listen to their own sliver of current rock or pop music. People aren't interested in the medium of music making, they're interested in genres. And there are a million different names to describe subtle differences between a bunch of stuff that is all basically the same!
I was stuck in my own stylistic bubble too when I first started. I only bought records I was already familiar with. But then I discovered the Capitol Records parking lot swap meet and I started buying things I didn't know anything about... jazz, classical, country, easy listening, pop vocals, latin, blues, ethnic, harmonica groups, bluegrass, hawaiian guitar... you name it. Records were a buck apiece and if a cover looked interesting, I'd take the chance on it. My interests started branching out like limbs of a tree in all directions. I didn't need to remain in the little box of Art Rock and New Wave stuff that I had constructed for myself, because there was a whole world of music unfolding in front of me. Now I go on youtube and continue to expand my interests. It's no different.
The problem today isn't the wide choice of music available. It's the narrow interests of the average listener.
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