Expensive CDP or cheap SACD?
Jan 22, 2004 at 4:09 PM Post #46 of 107
Quote:

Originally posted by markl
Couldn't an SACD version of a 24/96 recording essentially do the same thing? If you convert it to DSD, put it on an SACD medium, and play it back through a DSD/SACD DAC, is that similar to the effect of "upsampling" you get by playing 16/44.1 discs on a 24/96 DAC? In other words, since the DSD disc and the SACDP sample at such a higher rate than 24/96, couldn't it affect playback in a psychologically positive manner a la upsampling?


I don't think so, because if you just go up to regular dsd, you just go up from ~ 2.3 to ~ 2.8 MHz data bandwith (and I'm not even sure, if those 2.8 MHz are entirely correct, because I haven't yet found proper insight into the DSD coding scheme...) - so you might end up with something that's more similar to crappy 48 kHz resampling of redbook audio than potentially beneficial 24/96 or 24/192 upsampling.

And yes, it's about time you stoppen sniffin' that glue!
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Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
Jan 22, 2004 at 4:18 PM Post #47 of 107
Quote:

Originally posted by markl
Have you compared them? On what systems?


Yes, on a Pioneer 47Ai and (preliminary listening only -- unit just arrived) Esoteric DV-50. In my experience, all discs contain contain unique signatures, so saying SACD and DVD-A contain unique signatures is not meaningful -- any two SACDs will contain different signatures. I know they argue about this on audioasylum, and I've been unimpressed by many of those arguments there, which have considerable technical misinformation.
 
Jan 22, 2004 at 4:20 PM Post #48 of 107
Quote:

Originally posted by kentamcolin
From what I have read, SACD players tend to sacrifice redbook performance. I don't think you can expect an SCAD player to play CD's as well as a dedicated redbook player of the same price.


Some do, some don't. The generalization is not justified.
 
Jan 22, 2004 at 5:39 PM Post #50 of 107
Quote:

Originally posted by kentamcolin
If SACD players played redbook as good or better than dedicated redbook players, why would anyone buy a redbook only player now, at any price??


Hence the market success of players such as the DV-50.
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Jan 22, 2004 at 10:02 PM Post #51 of 107
Quote:

Originally posted by theaudiohobby
Hence the market success of players such as the DV-50.
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This is true. The dealer I bought mine from (who I can recommend highly: Wild West Electronics) told me he was shipping six of these units out this week. For such a high-priced niche item, that's an impressive number for a single dealer.
 
Jan 23, 2004 at 4:54 AM Post #52 of 107
I should hope the (Esoteric) DV-50 has awesome redbook performance, at $5,500! Now the question becomes: how much would you have to spend to get redbook only as good as the DV-50, and does SACD, DVD-A capability justify the additional cost? Again, for some folks this player is a bargain because money is no object. If I was a gozillionaire I would want one just to have one. Besides, I'd need a really good source since my Avantegarde Trio's would be so revealing
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Jan 23, 2004 at 5:06 AM Post #53 of 107
Quote:

Originally posted by kentamcolin
I should hope the (Esoteric) DV-50 has awesome redbook performance, at $5,500!


List price, list price. You need to hunt for bargains. It's a shame to pay retail.
 
Jan 23, 2004 at 5:11 AM Post #54 of 107
Quote:

Originally posted by kentamcolin
I should hope the (Esoteric) DV-50 has awesome redbook performance, at $5,500!


... And should be faster than a speeding bullet, leap over buildings in a single bound, fly, make breakfast lunch and dinner, iron clothes, seek gainful employment...
Oops, sorry those are the requirements made of most husbands (much cheaper than $5,500). Universal players have it so easy.
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Jan 23, 2004 at 12:08 PM Post #55 of 107
Quote:

Originally posted by kentamcolin
I should hope the (Esoteric) DV-50 has awesome redbook performance, at $5,500! Now the question becomes: how much would you have to spend to get redbook only as good as the DV-50, and does SACD, DVD-A capability justify the additional cost? Again, for some folks this player is a bargain because money is no object. If I was a gozillionaire I would want one just to have one. Besides, I'd need a really good source since my Avantegarde Trio's would be so revealing
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Have you noticed that the price of top-flight redbook CDPs/DACs are rising ever higher. Reason, life below USD10K is getting too hot to handle for redbook-only players on two fronts, the modders are maxing out the performance of existing dual purpose players and the new generation of Universals/SACDPs have a few tricks up their sleeves. The single purpose player may still have it but only at the very top end of market.Even there, Meridian, DCS and soon the Teac UX-1 are challenging for top honours.
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Redbook only CDPs really have nowhere to hide.
 
Jan 23, 2004 at 1:27 PM Post #56 of 107
O.K., what I'd really like to know is how much would one have to spend on a dual purpose or universal player to be sure basically no redbook only player would better it's performance? What are some of these players, ie..make, model? There are some SACD's I'd like to try, but I have not bought a player since there are to few titles available. I'd want a universal player since there is so much music on redbook that will likely never see SACD. I also have a few DVD's (concerts) that I wouldn't mind being able to play on my dedicated 2-channel system.
 
Jan 23, 2004 at 2:37 PM Post #57 of 107
Quote:

Originally posted by kentamcolin
O.K., what I'd really like to know is how much would one have to spend on a dual purpose or universal player to be sure basically no redbook only player would better it's performance? What are some of these players, ie..make, model? There are some SACD's I'd like to try, but I have not bought a player since there are to few titles available. I'd want a universal player since there is so much music on redbook that will likely never see SACD. I also have a few DVD's (concerts) that I wouldn't mind being able to play on my dedicated 2-channel system.


I think that the current Esoteric UX-1 is the only one that I could confidently say will compete with any redbook player out there. Remember, there are some crazy crazy CD players. The DV-50 also does a very good job but I could name quite a few redbook players that better it. Same with the Denon 2900 and above. This is based on very limited listening experience with these units, but extensive talks with people whos opinions I greatly respect.
 
Jan 23, 2004 at 3:49 PM Post #58 of 107
We can leave out the crazy crazy redbook players. I believe the consensus around here is that you can get fantastic redbok performance from players in the $2K-$3K range, based on the opinions of players in that range. These would be players like modded Sony ES, Arcam, Moon, etc. I recently auditioned a $60K speaker system, and while it was the best I've ever heard I can't say I would recommend it, because I don't know anyone who could/would spend that on speakers. If I were looking to buy a car and wanted high performance, it won't do me any good if you recommend a Ferrari 360 Modena or Mercedes/McLaren SLR. I guess what I am saying is, what universal player would equal the redbook performance of some of the best redbook only players currently in production. Something I could buy and safely have a component that I will use for many years.
 
Jan 23, 2004 at 4:04 PM Post #59 of 107
Denon 2900 @ $1000 is right up your ally. The 5900 @ $2000 is supposedly a little better but I have no experience with it. The DV-50 I believe is around $5000 mark and would be able to more closely compete with the Arcams and Simaudios.

Sorry, I didn't realize you were actually asking in hopes of buying. I thought it was more of a theoretical question.
 
Jan 23, 2004 at 4:19 PM Post #60 of 107
Quote:

Originally posted by kentamcolin
We can leave out the crazy crazy redbook players. I believe the consensus around here is that you can get fantastic redbok performance from players in the $2K-$3K range, based on the opinions of players in that range. These would be players like modded Sony ES, Arcam, Moon, etc.


Let's change tact here, what redbook player(s) in this range do you think provides very good sonic performance, once we know that, then it is a bit easier to recommend a Universal that you might like.
 

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