[Sovkiller]

I'm curious about these tiny objects, the reviews are very favorable and everybody praises them but I have a question, despite the issues of the comfort, that maybe one likes or another dislikes, all the headfiers more or less agree in that the sound is excellent, I noticed that all the rest of the good headphones always extend the range of the audible freq over 20KHz, most of them even over 30KHz in the high freq, 39, 38, 22, 20 etc.... but I was freak when I saw that these earphones according to their website barely reach 17KHz (16KHz they say) I can ear over this freq, I measured my earing, I know that they do not cut the frequency at that point and maybe they begin the roll off at that point, but why the rest need to extend that range then one octave over? Does anybody has any explanation of how a headphone that can barely reach 17KHz can produce this sound quality? Is just because the way they work, all inside the ear, and beating directly the ear tympanic membrane? Please I really apreciate any enlighten on that point....

 

[pedxing]

My typical answer is to ignore the frequency range because most other headphone companies list ridiculous numbers. For example, many of the sony ear buds claim they can do like 22 Khz or even up to like 30 KHz. Obviously, these ear buds do not come even close to the performance of the Ety ER-4's.

The specs for the Ety ER-4's are apparently much more accurate or truthful than what many other headphone competitor publish. Many members of the forum do claim that they do roll off at 17 KHz, however I do not know if this is entirely true either. I do know that etymotic has done research to shape the frequency responses of the Ety ER-4 to compensate for the fact that the rest of your head and outer ear do not affect the sounds coming from the ER-4.

In some sense, one can argue that if the driver is producing signals the human ear cannot hear, then its wasting energy and maybe introducing other distortions (harmonic distortion?). However, high end speakers do publish the same type of numbers, so the highest frequency a driver can be produce must be put into some sort of context that makes sense. I do not exactly understand what this context should be or what industry deems it to be.

 

[Sovkiller]

Well maybe the Sony earbuds are not accurate, but one thing is that the sound is not good or accurate and another is that they do not reproduce that frequency, maybe they did, but the overall sound is not pleasant, on the other side I state that "good cans" for example Grados and Senns, and I don't think is a waste of energy if they extend the frequency over the espectrum, frist the roll off begin on the frequencies that we do not hear, and on the ones we can hear the sound will be more "natural", or more similar to the real life, in fact in real life when playing instruments there are present an espectrum of frequencies that we do not hear, that's why they did that, and if they did that is because they know their bussiness and what they in fact are doing, if they begin to roll off at 16KHz depending on the shape of the curve, maybe at 19KHz the level would be too low, on the other side I do ear more that 17KHz so my question is Am I mising something if I hear the Etys?

 

[MacDEF]

Most manufacturers provide BS specs in order to sell products. Etymotic Research is a real, live audio research company, one of their specialties being audio measurement. In other words, believe their specs, don't believe others

Plus Don Wilson from Etymotic posts here on Head-Fi, and once explained that Etys are designed to accurately represent what a typical human ear hears in an open environment, which is a rolled-off signal above 16k-17k. In other words, Etys are purposely rolled off so that you hear exactly what you would with speakers or a live performance.

Anyone who's listened to Etys extensively will tell you that they have great detail and very accurate highs.

 

[Sovkiller]

Thanks MacDEF, Now yes, this is what I was looking for, and BTW do you have the link to the posts of that guy, I would like to read them, just as a curiosity, and believe me I'm not doubting of their honesty or measurements, just that this numbers wake my curiosity up, according to the people here, they are excellent in accuracy and high frequnecies, that's why I was affraid that has to be another explanation like the way they work, or something unusual....

 

[nanahachi]

thanks for starting this thread Sovkiller

sometime soon ill have to make the Ety or AT decision, and this answers a question or two that I've had. now i just need to start reading posts on how ppl have found their sound: eg, too detailed? too bright? warm? bass heavy (this is prob far from the truth?)? etc

the reading never stops.

 

[Snufkin]

What most budget headphone manufacturers won't tell you is what kind of level the measurement is at.

You might be able to hear above 16Khz, but what if it's 20Khz at -25dB ?
Sure the headphone is playing something at that level, but it's not really audible.
Furthermore if it's at -25 and -20 at 10, -10 at 5, and at 0 around 2Khz... that's not gonna sound too good, not to mention if it's jumpy all the way back to 100Hz where it starts diving again.


And you know what?
They're measurements, who cares?

As long as the headphone sounds good to you.

 

[Peddler]

The Ety's are some of the most musical and accurate sounding headphones currently available in my opinion. Don't let the figures influence your decision - they are outstanding.

 

[john_jcb]

Quote:

Originally posted by Sovkiller Thanks MacDEF, Now yes, this is what I was looking for, and BTW do you have the link to the posts of that guy, I would like to read them, just as a curiosity, and believe me I'm not doubting of their honesty or measurements, just that this numbers wake my curiosity up, according to the people here, they are excellent in accuracy and high frequnecies, that's why I was affraid that has to be another explanation like the way they work, or something unusual....

Try this link it will give you a list of all of Don's posts.

http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/searc...earchid=246569

THe Etys are the most natural sounding of the HP's I have listened too. Another benifit is that the outside sound is so attenuated that you only hear the music. I love the sound of the HD600s but only if listening in a quiet room.

 

[mikel51]

i have listened to test tones, and I can't hear 17KHz, so I don't worry about whether my headphones will reproduce 17 or 20K.

 

[JaZZ]

It probably isn't that important that a headphone or a speaker has a flat frequency response above 16 kHz, whether or not you're able to hear it. But I doubt such a response is headphones' «normalized», speaker/free-field adapted ideal curve as which it's constituted. If that was the case, ear specialists would have nothing to measure in this area.

The ER-4s are really impressively adequate and musical despite this metrological flaw. I wonder myself how this can be: such a low-pass filter logically creates a transients corruption, and this one is harmful to the sound. One would expect that such a tiny membrane with a minimum of moved masses rather has its limits with low frequencies. But those are assisted by the air-tight occlusion which allows no losses of sonic energy, whereas high frequencies are multiplicatively reflected in the ear canal, thus creating interferences and obliterations. Before this happens, there's sort of low-pass filtering effect from the transducer's duct inside the stem, acting like a bandpass duct, at the same time producing i tiny bit of reflective «smearing».

Supposed there is a transients corruption, it's a minor and limited one, and it's sonically compensated by the quasi-direct coupling to the eardrum, avoiding on the other hand the softening reflections from the outer ear. That doesn't mean the Etys are becoming perfectly adequate that way, it's just an «advantage» over conventional headphones in the outer-ear reflections criterion, which lifts them at least to an equal level, all in all. But I think there are in fact dynamic headphones with a more accurate reproduction of the upper end. Even the HD 600, I would say.

JaZZ

 

[zowie]

I dislike the bass. It just seems rolled off and lacking impact to me. And I am not a bass head.

 

[Sovkiller]

Sory but I was reading more or less the topic of the posts of Mr Wilson and I was not able to find any related with that question, of course I don't read the whole thing, as it should be longer that the bible, for that reason I would like that If Mr. Wilson is a honorable member of this forum, he may pointed me to the right answer, please if you don't mind, I'm really curious about that, and I do believe that they have a valid good reason for that roll off, of course, just that I don't know the answer, and I would like to know it, remember my signature I never stop questioning, that's the way I learn and I don't know any other.....

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by zowie I dislike the bass. It just seems rolled off and lacking impact to me. And I am not a bass head.

In terms of extension, the Etys roll off less than pretty much any headphone on the market save the DT770 and V6/7506. But there are two issues with Ety bass:

1) If you don't get a good seal, you don't get good bass. In fact, you get very little bass.

2) Ety bass is audible, not visceral; you can hear it -- in fact, it's some of the most extended and accurate bass I've ever heard -- but you won't "feel" it like with larger cans.

 

[zowie]

I know a lot of you guys disagree with me about the bass. But I've logged a lot of hours with these and I don't think I'm going to come around on this aspect. Overall, I do like them very much.