The Ethernet cables, Switches and Network related sound thread. Share your listening experience only.
Sep 23, 2021 at 9:42 AM Post #631 of 2,048
Before you all pound those ignore buttons, can you at least try to come up with a reasoned, rational response to my arguments?

Or even just try to answer these two questions. Does audiophile snake oil exist, and if so, what is the threshold at which a product ceases to be legitimate and begins to be snake oil?
 
Sep 23, 2021 at 9:53 AM Post #632 of 2,048
@bfreedma, what would you accept as objective evidence? I know of a person who has patents in aeronautical engineering, but vehemently denies that two planes flew into the World Trade Center on 9/11. Why do I have to prove anything to you about what I hear with my own ears? Obviously you’re a cable denier with no actual physical experience in streaming audio. Fine. Now you’re just a troll who has nothing substantive to add to the conversation beyond your contrarianism. Good day.

One of my past clients is one of the largest streaming companies on the planet. I’ve also been streaming in a home environment for many years, so saying I have no experience with streaming audio is false.

objective evidence is simple. Either the results of properly controlled testing, or better, nulling the output of a DAC using an audiophile network component against the same DAC with a standard network component.

Oddly, I’ve repeatedly presented facts describing 802/Ethernet and all I see in response is “but my ears”. I’m not a “cable denier”, I’m a “facts supporter”.

BTW, you asked for my qualifications and I responded with some details. I ask you for the same and instead of answering, you resort to insults. So let’s try again:

Now, please share your qualifications that enable you to question the operational functionality of Ethernet and it’s supporting devices. Or lacking that, any actual objective evidence that supports your position.
 
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Sep 23, 2021 at 8:27 PM Post #633 of 2,048
[mod comment] As a reminder we ask that any general debates regarding cables and comparisons take place in the multitude of active threads dedicated to the subject in the Sound a science forum. Let’s please keep this thread focused on sharing our first-hand experiences with different cables. Thanks everyone.
 
Sep 24, 2021 at 5:29 PM Post #634 of 2,048
3) The sound isn't actually changing, only your perception of it is. In this scenario, various unavoidable human biases are coming into play to color your perception of what you are hearing.

Obviously I take position #3. But for you subjectivists, which is happening? Is the expensive cable enhancing the sound, or is the theorized noise or interference on the cheaper cable somehow making its way through the rest of your signal chain, to your transducer of choice, and into your ears?
And thats the bias. You haven even tried and listen to them.

My theory.
I think its like our ears taste the mix of electricity that these trancducers produce depending on the chemistry on atom level of this electricity mix in the audio chain entering the circuit boards. You can think of it as a parable to cooking or baking a change in ingredient and amount will make it taste different. Or like one wanting the best beans for coffey or best flour for baking. For best taste.

Changes depending on the copper being used, an copper dig up on Hawaii, Sweden, or China may have different chemistry. Or ofc, occ, silver copper will change these electrical chemistry or behaviour. I think these can make up for subtle changes. Like the one hearing diffrences between yahoudy, amason basics, supra or whatever, or when audio bacon guy heard diffrences begween regular generic ethernet cables in same cat. Also the noise levels in the electricity probebly most impactful. This electricity improvement from say ipowerx vs generic regular psu being used "The iPower X leakage noise is 20x lower than normal SMPS (100pf vs 2,200pf)" is not to be taken lightly.

So i think the electricity being used as "data" enters our equipment and analogue stage. Yeah buffering and resent means more of dirty or clean electricity is being sent to our equipment. Of course the electricity being sent must enter despite galvanic isolation theres no way around it for wired.

Good question about why dac makers dont build in filtering for better audio. Maybe its possible to do but not cost effective. Some higher end dac makers maybe do i havent studying there tech.
 
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Sep 24, 2021 at 11:05 PM Post #635 of 2,048
So i think the electricity being used as "data" enters our equipment and analogue stage. Yeah buffering and resent means more of dirty or clean electricity is being sent to our equipment. Of course the electricity being sent must enter despite galvanic isolation theres no way around it for wired.

OK, then get an UPS (uninterruptible power supply.) Most good UPSes will include an in/out port for Ethernet to prevent electrical interference from damaging your equipment. If it's capable of protecting your equipment from damage caused by a lightning strike, for example, it's more than capable of filtering out this theoretical electrical interference you think is acting on your audio signal in a controlled manner to make your audio sound harsh, overly bright, less analogue, less musical, etc., etc. (All of these are the counter descriptions for what you claim your snake oil cables are improving in your audio chain.)

The UPS will filter your power. And provide battery-backup capabilities. No BS cables, audiofool-grade switches, or snake oil filters required.
 
Sep 25, 2021 at 3:19 AM Post #636 of 2,048
It’s not even about spending large amounts of money, it’s about spending money where it can actually make an audible difference. Transducers, room treatments, buying content, etc.
For me its improving on what you allready got and have a solid foundation for future purchases. Instead of craving for new headphones, amp or dacs. I have never been in the hobby to collect on stuff.
 
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Sep 25, 2021 at 8:49 AM Post #637 of 2,048
@bluenight, have you tried any new streaming cables, network switches, or Ethernet filters lately? 😃
 
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Sep 25, 2021 at 5:49 PM Post #638 of 2,048
@bluenight, have you tried any new streaming cables, network switches, or Ethernet filters lately? 😃
No if i do i surely post about it here :)

Happy with what i got at the moment. An power conditioner for my router and switch replacing my generic powerstrip would be nice but i dont find one with the power switch at the top for easy shut of with toe tapp for my convinience. Otherwise ifi powerstation would be top of my list.
 
Sep 25, 2021 at 7:13 PM Post #639 of 2,048
I don't need to experience gravity by jumping off all of the tallest buildings in the world to know it exists, dude. It's been demonstrated over and over to you and other subjectivists that the listening experience is not a reliable metric. Our ears are not measuring instruments, no matter how much confidence you arrogantly place in your own.

Address the actual rational arguments or admit that it's all in your head.
Everyone have experienced gravity and know it exist. Or is gravity all in your head. Have you measuared it?

Many curious and free willing that have tried different ethernet cables, switches, psu for router/switch have experienced improved audio or sound difference. Maybe everyone with trained listening experience in a well known audio chain that nothing else been replaced for a while could hear the diffrence if audiophile grade network gear or quiet psu is introduced. And the degration when going back to previous generic stuff. As been mentioned before i think this is the best testing methodolgy, normal listening in a relaxed manner. Blind test is not normal in any way for consumers may be only good for scientific studys.
 
Feb 8, 2022 at 5:59 AM Post #640 of 2,048
What about this one:
Emo Systems EN-70HD.

Instead of using shielded network cables, which can cause more trouble?
 
Feb 8, 2022 at 9:23 AM Post #641 of 2,048
Those people who hear a difference will also hear a difference when they think there is one even if nothing has changed. The best way to do this is to know what the change is and to test in a "relaxed manner" over a long period of time so that your 3-second "sonic memory" complete goes out the window.
 
Feb 8, 2022 at 9:42 AM Post #642 of 2,048
Those people who hear a difference will also hear a difference when they think there is one even if nothing has changed. The best way to do this is to know what the change is and to test in a "relaxed manner" over a long period of time so that your 3-second "sonic memory" complete goes out the window.
Like hearing the grass grow?😂
 
Feb 8, 2022 at 9:56 AM Post #643 of 2,048
Why are we rehashing this one again?

1. Ethernet is magnetically coupled (transformers on both sides)
2. Ethernet jacks are galvanically isolated
3. checksums are run at both sender and receiver to ensure data integrity
4. no clock signal is transferred via Ethernet

If you are hearing differences, the chances are:
1. your cables were not properly made to ethernet spec
2. your ethernet sockets on either end may not have been made to spec
3. your modem is consumer grade and may not be up to the ethernet spec
4. your streamer designer may not know what he/she is doing and did not design the receiver to ethernet spec
5. your streamer designer may not have a good handle on minimizing noise generated by the receiver
 
Feb 8, 2022 at 10:09 AM Post #644 of 2,048
Why are we rehashing this one again?

There's more to it than 1s and 0s and systems are not immune to their environment.
 
Feb 8, 2022 at 12:23 PM Post #645 of 2,048
ok ok ok. I was thinking today.

In theory data is data, it "lives and breeds" in the digital world right?

When noise is introduced in the cable while listening to music from a nas it doesnt interfere with data but is CARRIED from start to the listeners ear.

So we are actually comparing two different things when we say it doesnt matter. We think data is data, because it has nothing to do with the external worlds vibrations/noise.

But if your house has f´d wires and leakage. It does matter?
 
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